Are you sure it isn't three Gods?

[Alla27]

Adam and Eve is ONE FLESH according to the Bible. Literally?
If not, what does it mean that they are ONE FLESH?

 

[katerinah1947]

Adam and Eve is ONE FLESH according to the Bible. Literally?
If not, what does it mean that they are ONE FLESH?

Hi,

So far in these forums, all the LDS people who have responded, ignore questions and switch subjects rather consistently.

You have ignored my answer to your question posed to me, of can I explain God to a child.

Is, it Mormon teaching to bail on every conversation, and try and shift the conversation to reading Mormon Scripture or jumping to a new and unrelated subject?

That is one pattern I have seen, by the only three others I have conversed with so far. You are now the fourth.

In an approved, private revelation, I have seen The Essence of God, meaning God but not the actual face of God.

Yes, even mental health people as well as the church have cleared me of error in this.

Yet, when in the past I encountered Mormons here on that subject, they became confusing, and shifted me fairly fast to reading their literature, as they assured me that I did not have to give up my God to be a Mormon.

In rather quick succession, while doing that reading of the Mormon literature, one of those same Mormon Teachers was telling someone else on another Thread the Christian God is incompatible with the Mormon version of God.

Feeling lied to, I confronted that person, who then proceeded to try and tell me that he had never said that.

Here you said could I tell you about God, in a simpler way, as you said that you did not understand that description, that an Atheist almost perfectly understood, on his first attempt, not that he believed me, but he totally seemed to understand the description of God that I work with and Know, personally.

What gives? Why are you not answering all those questions put to you, yet asking more questions yourself?

LOVE,

 

[Alla27]

Hi,

Yes, but I would like to know what the child can handle.

If I said that you are a kid sometimes in the way you act, but your body has not changed, can the kid I am supposed to explain this to, understand that.?

Can the kid, understand that within his own body, he can act like a child, he can act just like a parent, a mommy or a daddy, in that same body, without going outside of his own body?

If the child can understand that, can the child also understand that when he is working, he is working. He is neither a parent, nor a child, but a worker, and when he is a worker, still he is in the same body as he always was?

If he can understand that, we can go from there.

LOVE,

Katerina, I don't think a child can understand this. Neither do I.

So, Adam and Eve is ONE FLESH. Literally?
May be ONE FLESH and ONE GOD is not literally?

 

[Jane_Doe]

So far in these forums, all the LDS people who have responded, ignore questions and switch subjects rather consistently.

....

What gives? Why are you not answering all those questions put to you, yet asking more questions yourself?

FYI, discussion of LDS beliefs is not allowed in this particular sub-forum, hence why your questions about LDS beliefs go unanswered here (we're following the rules). Admittedly, Mormon beliefs can be confusing coming from a Catholic perspective, because you need to thoroughly examine ideas and can't take assumption-based leaps. I sympathizing with you in this regard-- I just spent 10 month trying to better understand Catholicism and initially found those beliefs completely baffling (I did eventually make some sense of it though).

If you want to talk about LDS beliefs (on the Trinity or anything else), I'd be happy to in the "Christianity and World Religion" or "Debate Non-Christian Religions" sub-forums, or even via PM. But as to here, those subjects are both off-topic and against the rules.

 

[Alla27]

According to the Bible God YHWH (Jesus Christ in this life) said that He has His God. Period.
Do Christians agree with the Bible that God YHWH who is I AM, who is Jesus Christ, who is Creator of heaven and earth has His God and His Father?
Do Christians agree with the Bible that God has His God?
If yes, then I have another question: what does it mean that God has His God?

 

[Alla27]

Hi,
In an approved, private revelation,

I don't understand what "private approved revelation" means.
Approved by Pope?

I have seen The Essence of God, meaning God but not the actual face of God.

I don't understand what you are talking about.

Yes, even mental health people as well as the church have cleared me of error in this.

I don't understand you. Sorry.

What gives? Why are you not answering all those questions put to you, yet asking more questions yourself?
LOVE,

I didn't ask only you those questions. I have hard time to comprehend your message. I am sorry.

 

[ChetSinger]

According to the Bible God YHWH (Jesus Christ in this life) said that He has His God. Period.
Do Christians agree with the Bible that God YHWH who is I AM, who is Jesus Christ, who is Creator of heaven and earth has His God and His Father?
Do Christians agree with the Bible that God has His God?
If yes, then I have another question: what does it mean that God has His God?

Unfortunately I can't answer your question "does God have His God" with a simple yes/no reply because my answer relies on the dual nature of Jesus.

As worded, I'm inclined to answer 'no'.

But...

In Christianity Jesus is both God and Man. Both. So as he is the Word of God I would answer is 'no' because he's part of one substance with the Father. Yet as a man he worshipped the Father as God as he followed the law of Moses.

I like your questions.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi,

I don't understand what "private approved revelation" means.
Approved by Pope?

It roughly means, the entire church cannot say it is wrong, nor, am I not allowed to talk about it, as it has been proven by them to be from God in this case, and also in no way is it contrary to any Biblical statements.

I don't understand what you are talking about.

Biblically, no one it is said can see The Face of God and live.

I didn't, I saw God, in His Essence, in what God Is, in His Power, and in His might, but not His actual Face.

That, His Essence, and Trinitarianly, was hard enough to live without, when He again lessened His Presence to me, ********.

I would say that, if He Presented more of Himself to me, that indeed I could not have gone on living on earth, but would have died as He would have been too much for me to live without anymore.

I don't understand you. Sorry.

It is possible for people to say they have seen God, and it is merely some form of hallucination or delusion.

I on this issue, have been cleared of any chance that any form of mental illness is involved in what I am saying happened to me that allows me to tell others about God, as I have seen and dealt with Him, God, in that two year set of experiences.

I didn't ask only you those questions. I have hard time to comprehend your message. I am sorry.

Hi again,

I accept.

Is this any clearer now?

Simply put, I actually know God.

Simply put also, that was given to me.

Simply put also, all the verifications, corrobations are given to me also, so that I can answer and show anyone, why I am not fooled in any way shape or form, on the subject of God, even Biblically, Spiritually nor in ways of mental health issues, commonly referred to as being nuts or crazy.

LOVE,

 

[ViaCrucis]

According to the Bible God YHWH (Jesus Christ in this life) said that He has His God. Period.
Do Christians agree with the Bible that God YHWH who is I AM, who is Jesus Christ, who is Creator of heaven and earth has His God and His Father?
Do Christians agree with the Bible that God has His God?
If yes, then I have another question: what does it mean that God has His God?

We do not agree with the Mormon teaching that Elohim is God the Father and YHVH is Jesus.

We believe that both the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) as well as Elohim/El/El Elyon/Eloah/etc all refer to God, the one and same God mentioned throughout Scripture and who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ScottA]

Whenever I hear of Christians referring to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, it sure sounds to me like three Gods that work in perfect harmony. Is that what you believe? If not, how does your faith markedly differ from the person who believes in three Gods that work in perfect harmony.

Though I wear many hats, I have but one Head.

Me, myself, and I, do not make three...unless you focus on just one of the balls I am juggling.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Though I wear many hats, I have but one Head.

Me, myself, and I, do not make three...unless you focus on just one of the balls I am juggling.

This is a fairly explicit description of Modalism/Sabellianism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[katerinah1947]

Katerina, I don't think a child can understand this. Neither do I.

So, Adam and Eve is ONE FLESH. Literally?
May be ONE FLESH and ONE GOD is not literally?

Hi,

My expertise, through experiences with God, taught me things on the concept of Oneness.

I do not know it all, but for me oneness is this. I started almost instantly, becoming like what I am allowed to say from that two year set of private revelations, and that is more like the One I agreed to His proposal of marriage to me, as soon I think as I said this word YES!, I started almost instantly becoming more like Him.

That was just words though.

Eventually and totally unexpectedly, it became more.

Years would pass, I noticed what I did and said.

More years passed. I still noticed my actions.

It took an incident to show me, and then another one to bring the words out of me, that I had indeed become like my Spouse/spouse in emotions and feelings.

For me this was also visual. I had to see this with my own eyes. I had strong emotions for a woman So did God The Father. Jesus was there, I could see and feel His emotions. There was someone else there with Jesus, they both had the same emotions for this girl. The Holy Spirit was there also.

As time passed, thinking nothing ever but telling the woman this involved, what I was seeing, and then I doing what I was supposed to do for this woman, one day the Feelings God The Father had for her, I pushed them asside for some reason or another.

Totally in color, breadth, size but not in intensity, as I am not Him, is my feelings for her, and they are identical.

Still I said nothing.

One day, totally afraid that I was under attack, I told someone how I knew that indeed I was was like Gid The Father more now, just like others become more like His Son, when they get closer to Him.

For me, I and He are one like that. I am like Him in the way He feels and on somethings maybe even Thinks.

Normally, simply, I just say this as it is what is true, I love all that God the Father loves, and ***********, but the second part is too hard, to say right now, but it is so.

I am one with Him that way, are not most women one, that way with their husbands also?

LOVE,

 

[Alla27]

Unfortunately I can't answer your question "does God have His God" with a simple yes/no reply because my answer relies on the dual nature of Jesus.

OK,

As worded, I'm inclined to answer 'no'.
But...
In Christianity Jesus is both God and Man. Both. So as he is the Word of God I would answer is 'no' because he's part of one substance with the Father. Yet as a man he worshipped the Father as God as he followed the law of Moses.
I like your questions.

Thank you.
But I want us to discuss the Bible only. Let's for a moment pretend we don't know any different philosophies of any Christian sects.
I see in the Bible claim that Jesus Christ is God:
1) God Father calls Him "O God".
2)Jesus said that He is I AM according to the Bible.
3)The Bible claims that Jesus was creator of the worlds and heaven and earth.
4)Everything is through Jesus Christ.
5)The Bible also claims that Cod who created heaven and earth has names - I AM and YHWH.

Logical conclusion : Jesus Christ and God YHWH who is also I AM who is Creator of heaven and earth and who communicated with Moses is one person.

So, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE: God YHWH was born on earth 2016 years ago in mortal flesh. This God who is Creator of heaven and earth and whose name is YHWH and I AM told people that He has His God and His Father.

Logical conclusion: God YHWH(Jesus Christ) has His God and His Father.

QUESTION: do you agree that this is what the Bible claims and that my conclusions are logical? if no, please explain. I want to know your arguments.

 

[Alla27]

We do not agree with the Mormon teaching that Elohim is God the Father and YHVH is Jesus.

That is OK. I do not discuss LDS doctrine. I discuss the Bible only.

We believe that both the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) as well as Elohim/El/El Elyon/Eloah/etc all refer to God, the one and same God mentioned throughout Scripture and who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
-CryptoLutheran

I am glad that this is what you believe. But I like to discuss the Bible only here, not philosophies of men.

 

[Alla27]

Hi,

Hi, katerinah1947

My expertise, through experiences with God, taught me things on the concept of Oneness.
I do not know it all, but for me oneness is this. I started almost instantly, becoming like what I am allowed to say from that two year set of private revelations, and that is more like the One I agreed to His proposal of marriage to me, as soon I think as I said this word YES!, I started almost instantly becoming more like Him.

That was just words though.

Eventually and totally unexpectedly, it became more.

Years would pass, I noticed what I did and said.

More years passed. I still noticed my actions.

It took an incident to show me, and then another one to bring the words out of me, that I had indeed become like my Spouse/spouse in emotions and feelings.

For me this was also visual. I had to see this with my own eyes. I had strong emotions for a woman So did God The Father. Jesus was there, I could see and feel His emotions. There was someone else there with Jesus, they both had the same emotions for this girl. The Holy Spirit was there also.

As time passed, thinking nothing ever but telling the woman this involved, what I was seeing, and then I doing what I was supposed to do for this woman, one day the Feelings God The Father had for her, I pushed them asside for some reason or another.

Totally in color, breadth, size but not in intensity, as I am not Him, is my feelings for her, and they are identical.

Still I said nothing.

One day, totally afraid that I was under attack, I told someone how I knew that indeed I was was like Gid The Father more now, just like others become more like His Son, when they get closer to Him.

For me, I and He are one like that. I am like Him in the way He feels and on somethings maybe even Thinks.

Normally, simply, I just say this as it is what is true, I love all that God the Father loves, and ***********, but the second part is too hard, to say right now, but it is so.

I am one with Him that way, are not most women one, that way with their husbands also?

LOVE,

thank you, katerinah1947 for sharing these things.
please, forgive me, but looks like God didn't give me enough intelligence to understand you.
I also prefer to discuss the Bible, not private revelations.
P.S. Private revelations should remain private. May be that is why I don't understand your message.

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi, katerinah1947

thank you, katerinah1947 for sharing these things.
please, forgive me, but looks like God didn't give me enough intelligence to understand you.
I also prefer to discuss the Bible, not private revelations.
P.S. Private revelations should remain private. May be that is why I don't understand your message.

Hi,

The teaching of the church on private revelations is they are to be believed and followed by the one the getting the private revelation.

And, an unapproved one cannot be shared normally. Approved ones can.

Also private revelations are normally to help out with items now, in our present life.

For instance, many things are said about God. So, when tested as being true by The Roman Catholic Church, it gives those who hear of it something to think about in hopes that one day, God will confirm that to everyone, and in the meantime to a few now.

In my case, I was at a seminary a few years ago. One priest there knew the story of God involving me.

Somehow I asked him that question: " Do you have enough information to know that I am who I say I am?" Or, something like that.

He said "yes. For some of us we have enough information."

We had more to say after that.

Private revelations, are perhaps a misleading set of words. In my case it merely means something given to me, and not everyone simultaneously.

Paul, had a Private Revelation, that eventually came to be believed by lots of people.

Abraham was given one also. Private is perhaps private in that sense only. It is given to one person, in the midst of others, but always for everyone's betterment.

Now, intelligence as you call it, is never an impediment to me.

I can get anyone to understand anything that I know, just by switching the way I present things.

Ask me or tell me what you do understand of what I have said please.

LOVE,

 

[katerinah1947]

Hi, katerinah1947

thank you, katerinah1947 for sharing these things.
please, forgive me, but looks like God didn't give me enough intelligence to understand you.
I also prefer to discuss the Bible, not private revelations.
P.S. Private revelations should remain private. May be that is why I don't understand your message.

Hi,

Biblically The Trinity as I deal with them is here, but also well seen in Psalms 2, not just in Jesus, deciphering that The Holy Spirit, caused David to say those words in Psalms 110:1,

Whose Son Is the Messiah?

35While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David? 36David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:

“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:

“Sit at my right hand

until I put your enemies

under your feet.” ’h

37David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”

The large crowd listened to him with delight.

LOVE,

Do you see the Trinity from what Jedus said?

LOVE,

 

[Alla27]

Hi,

The teaching of the church on private revelations is they are to be believed and followed by the one the getting the private revelation.

And, an unapproved one cannot be shared normally. Approved ones can.

Also private revelations are normally to help out with items now, in our present life.

For instance, many things are said about God. So, when tested as being true by The Roman Catholic Church, it gives those who hear of it something to think about in hopes that one day, God will confirm that to everyone, and in the meantime to a few now.

In my case, I was at a seminary a few years ago. One priest there knew the story of God involving me.

Somehow I asked him that question: " Do you have enough information to know that I am who I say I am?" Or, something like that.

He said "yes. For some of us we have enough information."

We had more to say after that.

Private revelations, are perhaps a misleading set of words. In my case it merely means something given to me, and not everyone simultaneously.

Paul, had a Private Revelation, that eventually came to be believed by lots of people.

Abraham was given one also. Private is perhaps private in that sense only. It is given to one person, in the midst of others, but always for everyone's betterment.

Now, intelligence as you call it, is never an impediment to me.

I can get anyone to understand anything that I know, just by switching the way I present things.

Ask me or tell me what you do understand of what I have said please.

LOVE,

katerinah1947, thank you for explaining to me what private revelation is. I call it "personal revelation".
I understood what you said. I also understood what "approved private revelation" means.
thanks again for being so kind and patient with me.
LOVE,

 

[Alla27]

Hi,

Biblically The Trinity as I deal with them is here, but also well seen in Psalms 2, not just in Jesus, deciphering that The Holy Spirit, caused David to say those words in Psalms 110:1,

Whose Son Is the Messiah?

35While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David? 36David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:

“ ‘The Lord said to my Lord:

“Sit at my right hand

until I put your enemies

under your feet.” ’h

37David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”

The large crowd listened to him with delight.

LOVE,

Do you see the Trinity from what Jedus said?

LOVE,

I have to leave now. I will read it later and I will respond.

 

[ChetSinger]

OK,

Thank you.
But I want us to discuss the Bible only. Let's for a moment pretend we don't know any different philosophies of any Christian sects.
I see in the Bible claim that Jesus Christ is God:
1) God Father calls Him "O God".
2)Jesus said that He is I AM according to the Bible.
3)The Bible claims that Jesus was creator of the worlds and heaven and earth.
4)Everything is through Jesus Christ.
5)The Bible also claims that Cod who created heaven and earth has names - I AM and YHWH.

Logical conclusion : Jesus Christ and God YHWH who is also I AM who is Creator of heaven and earth and who communicated with Moses is one person.

So, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE: God YHWH was born on earth 2016 years ago in mortal flesh. This God who is Creator of heaven and earth and whose name is YHWH and I AM told people that He has His God and His Father.

Logical conclusion: God YHWH(Jesus Christ) has His God and His Father.

QUESTION: do you agree that this is what the Bible claims and that my conclusions are logical? if no, please explain. I want to know your arguments.

I'm afraid I'll just give you the same answer I gave before: Jesus is both God and Man.

And "Elohim" is not the Father alone because Elohim is not a name. Elohim is the Hebrew word for God, and Jesus is called "God" in the New Testament. So Jesus is both YHWH and Elohim, just as the Father is. Remember Genesis 19:24: "Then YHWH rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from YHWH out of heaven." In that verse both the Father and Son are called YHWH.