Are You Doing Enough?

[BNR32FAN]

Medical treatment is free in the UK, but regardless of whether or not you receive a bill at the conclusion of your treatment, do you honestly believe that doctors, or indeed anyone, as being incapable of showing compassion and care when doing good works?

No I don’t and I haven’t said anything to indicate any such conclusion. Your just inflating the situation because of your hostility towards God and Christians.

You said yourself that the word love is used to describe compassion and caring.
You also said that your own good works are no longer filthy rags because you have received atonement, so that must put you in a bit of a dilemma when you thank someone who has helped you.

Not in the least. I’ve never met a christian who believed that they could not show gratitude towards anyone who is not a christian. Your trying too hard to make the situation into something you want it to be instead of just taking it for what it is.

Have they too received atonement and are deserving of thanks, or is their help nothing more than a filthy rag? Who says thanks for receiving a filthy rag?

I never said that Christians view acts of kindness from non Christians as filthy rags.

So if an atheist helped you, would you be happy to accept that help because it was of benefit to you, or would you consider that help a filthy rag.

I already answered this in the last post when I said that I’ve thanked many doctors who have helped my family members without ever asking if they were Christian or not.

Your god says it is a filthy rag, or perhaps you know better?
Going through life believing that someone's efforts at helping others are only genuine and worthy if they believe as you do is beyond the pale.

If you didn’t try so hard to twist the situation into something it’s not I’m confident that you could see that all of these are false pretenses. So let me ask you this, have you ever seen a Christian ask a person if they are a Christian before saying thank you?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Okay, so I need to accept it, and I can't reject it. What does that entail?

Nothing. It happens naturally when you are ready. You will be regenerated by His Holy Spirit and become part of the Body of Christ. You will know when that day, hour and minute comes.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Grace is what God grants us to make us capable of repentance. There are several examples of those who have received grace but still choose not to repent. Romans 2 is one of these examples.

Ok, then we do need to work for salvation in some way. We need to do something. It is not a free gift.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I didn’t see anything about if you die in that post. My mistake.

Will you answer the question please?

 

[Ironhold]

Seems to me that it is more about your god having a massive ego. Unless you consider him to be the main man then anything you do, no matter how good, is worthless in his eyes as you are just a filthy rag.
Nice bit of low self-esteem you have there. How on earth could you ever help anyone if you yourself feel so worthless?

With the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the basic teaching is "after all we can do". This is generally taken as "put forward a good-faith effort & try to live your best life, and God will figure it out from there."

In response, we often get told "How will you know if you've done enough?" with a sneer.

Hence why I'm watching this thread to see what people have to say.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ok, then we do need to work for salvation in some way. We need to do something. It is not a free gift.

Yes God does have expectations of His children. Surely we can’t continue to refuse to repent and still expect to receive salvation can we? If these people continue in their stubbornness and unrepentant heart do you think they will receive salvation or will they receive God’s righteous judgement and wrath on judgement day?


“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and restraint and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL REPAY EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of mankind who does evil, for the Jew first and also for the Greek, but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

 

[Par5]

No I don’t and I haven’t said anything to indicate any such conclusion. Your just inflating the situation because of your hostility towards God and Christians.



Not in the least. I’ve never met a christian who believed that they could not show gratitude towards anyone who is not a christian. Your trying too hard to make the situation into something you want it to be instead of just taking it for what it is.



I never said that Christians view acts of kindness from non Christians as filthy rags.



I already answered this in the last post when I said that I’ve thanked many doctors who have helped my family members without ever asking if they were Christian or not.



If you didn’t try so hard to twist the situation into something it’s not I’m confident that you could see that all of these are false pretenses. So let me ask you this, have you ever seen a Christian ask a person if they are a Christian before saying thank you?

All I can say to answer you is to repeat again what you said, that your good works are no longer considered filthy rags by your god because you have received atonement. It logically follows that the good works by someone who has not received atonement are considered to be filthy rags by your god.
You know that I identify as being an atheist. If ever I performed an act of kindness to you, knowing that I was an atheist would you consider it to be a filthy rag, or would you just think that your god is wrong?
Can a Christian ever consider their god is wrong?
I should clarify that I do not have hostility towards your god. I don't believe in your god so I don't have hostility towards something I don't believe exists. I believe your god is man-made and it would be more accurate to say that I am not impressed with the kind of god they invented for themselves. I am not hostile towards Christians. Again, it would be more accurate to say that it's not the person I dislike, but many of the things they believe.

 

[Moral Orel]

What did Jesus mean when He said, “I never knew you. Depart from me”? | GotQuestions.org

Okay, and how does that address what I wrote?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Will you answer the question please?

No if you die as an atheist you won’t be saved. That’s why I said that the free gift is not salvation but grace. Not every atheist who received grace will be saved either but those who repent can be saved.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Yes God does have expectations of His children. Surely we can’t continue to refuse to repent and still expect to receive salvation can we?

Why not?

If these people continue in their stubbornness and unrepentant heart do you think they will receive salvation or will they receive God’s righteous judgement and wrath on judgement day?

Why is there wrath? Why cannot God forgive everyone? Especially when God has not been clear about his expectations. I base this on the plethora or different doctrines about salvation.

“Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and restraint and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who WILL REPAY EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of mankind who does evil, for the Jew first and also for the Greek, but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

So we must do a certain amount of good thing or not do a certain amount of bad things before he will forgive us?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

No if you die as an atheist you won’t be saved. That’s why I said that the free gift is not salvation but grace. Not every atheist who received grace will be saved either but those who repent can be saved.

Ok thanks. Then we must do a work to be saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

All I can say to answer you is to repeat again what you said, that your good works are no longer considered filthy rags by your god because you have received atonement. It logically follows that the good works by someone who has not received atonement are considered to be filthy rags by your god.

Yes

 

[Carl Emerson]

It is typical Christian arrogance to think that their good works are better than those of the non believer's "dirty rags".

I didnt say that...

Phil 2:13
it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You know that I identify as being an atheist. If ever I performed an act of kindness to you, knowing that I was an atheist would you consider it to be a filthy rag, or would you just think that your god is wrong?
Can a Christian ever consider their god is wrong?

This has nothing to do with me perceiving God to be wrong. Your transgressions against God have nothing to do with how I receive your generosity. I’ve committed my own transgressions against God just as every single person and Christian since Adam & Eve with the one exception of Christ. So I have no grounds to judge you being outside of the church. No one is a believer until they believe, we all began as atheists, everyone has sinned against God. So my expectations of you should not be that you should not sin especially if your a nonbeliever. I know that being a nonbeliever you are still a slave to sin and cannot refrain from it just like I once was. So if I treated every nonbeliever as if they were some sort of scoundrel I’d be placing myself above them as if I were superior to them when in fact I am not. Not to mention that this type of behavior on my part isn’t very appealing to those whom I have been tasked by Christ to spread the gospel to and would ultimately be counterproductive to my assignment. So there is no need for Christians to judge nonbelievers. I’m willing to bet that you’ve encountered some judgmental Christians in the past? I’ve met some black people who were criminals before. I’ve also met some white people who were criminals. Come to think of it I’ve met a lot of different races that were criminals. I’ve met a lot of different races who were racist as well. Should I condemn each of these groups as being guilty of being criminals or racist because of the actions of some of the individuals within their particular group? We have to realize that in any group containing a particularly large number of people that there will be diversity within the group and not all of its members will share the same point of view. So we need to be careful not to condemn the entirety of any such group based on the actions of individuals within that group, but instead judge each individual individually based on their own actions or ideas. This way we are not exhibiting bigotry by stereotyping against innocent people based on the actions or views that they do not hold themselves.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I should clarify that I do not have hostility towards your god. I don't believe in your god so I don't have hostility towards something I don't believe exists. I believe your god is man-made and it would be more accurate to say that I am not impressed with the kind of god they invented for themselves. I am not hostile towards Christians. Again, it would be more accurate to say that it's not the person I dislike, but many of the things they believe.

Perhaps I mistook your previous posts as hostility instead of mere skepticism. Please forgive my mistake.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why not?

Because Romans 2 says so.

 

[Moral Orel]

Nothing. It happens naturally when you are ready. You will be regenerated by His Holy Spirit and become part of the Body of Christ. You will know when that day, hour and minute comes.

Okay. I'll keep doing nothing.

 

[Par5]

Yes

Yes, if you are talking about what your god says about good works by nonbelievers. You haven't said what you consider an act of kindness to you by a nonbeliever to be. Do you consider it to be what your god says it is, or do you think your god is wrong?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ok thanks. Then we must do a work to be saved.

If you view repentance as a work then yes. Can you provide one single example of a person who was saved in the scriptures who didn’t repent? No, you can’t.

 

[Moral Orel]

Actually I'm avoiding your question because it leads up to "who gets into heaven and who doesn't", and that's not up to me.

In the end it isn't your call, but we're supposed to judge folks by their fruits, so there's nothing wrong with my question. I'm not even calling anyone specific out, so all I'm asking is to judge what sorts of fruits are good or bad. And I would say that putting one's comfort above the needs of others is a bad sort of fruit.