Are You Doing Enough?

[BNR32FAN]

So we must do a certain amount of good thing or not do a certain amount of bad things before he will forgive us?

Repentance is not about works, repentance is turning away from sin and towards God. It is a state of mind or heart, more of an affection towards God not a series of actions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, if you are talking about what your god says about good works by nonbelievers. You haven't said what you consider an act of kindness to you by a nonbeliever to be. Do you consider it to be what your god says it is, or do you think your god is wrong?

I answered this in post 94.

 

[Par5]

I didnt say that...

Phil 2:13
it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.

Well Carl, you are the one who is forever going on about how people need to have the spirit dwelling in them to understand things, and I know you are not talking about Jack Daniels.
Again I ask you. Why do you need an outside agency to motivate you to do good works. Why can't you see what is needed and do it, all by your little old self?
You are still giving the impression that your good works are not so much to try and benefit those in need, but more to please your god.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Because Romans 2 says so.

That does not answer my question. Why can God not forgive us without punishment? You and I can do that for others.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If you view repentance as a work then yes. Can you provide one single example of a person who was saved in the scriptures who didn’t repent? No, you can’t.

I never said I could. But if we need to repent to be saved then it is not a free gift is it? Also, the free gift is eternal life with Jesus, not grace:

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Repentance is not about works, repentance is turning away from sin and towards God. It is a state of mind or heart, more of an affection towards God not a series of actions.

I cannot do this without doing work.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well Carl, you are the one who is forever going on about how people need to have the spirit dwelling in them to understand things, and I know you are not talking about Jack Daniels.
Again I ask you. Why do you need an outside agency to motivate you to do good works. Why can't you see what is needed and do it, all by your little old self?
You are still giving the impression that your good works are not so much to try and benefit those in need, but more to please your god.

We were made with the capacity to receive His Spirit within us. He directs us to the particular needs to be met rather than just responding to need at will.
Just as Jesus could only do the works He saw the Father doing.
Then in the doing of the works, His Love and gifts motivate our action.

Yes our motivation is not to be 'need centred' but 'God centred', because He sees need we would never see. Clearly some folks need immediate rescue, while others would benefit from learning through trial. It is beyond us to be sure of what is the appropriate response as He alone sees the hearts.

For some practical examples of this, see my testimony thread here...

Jesus's Ministry

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Okay. I'll keep doing nothing.

You will know when your heart changes

Okay. I'll keep doing nothing.

Now your getting it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That does not answer my question. Why can God not forgive us without punishment? You and I can do that for others.

You’ve changed the question again. I never said God cannot forgive a person who doesn’t repent, I said He won’t according to Romans 2. You did this before on the subject of atheists being saved you added the stipulation of them being saved after they die which changed the entire meaning of your original post. Now if your asking why God can’t forgive someone who doesn’t repent then my answer is I don’t know. I’m not aware of any scriptures that give any reason why God can’t forgive those who don’t repent other than because He is just and will judge each person according to their deeds. I don’t think these actually answer the question why but rather explain what He will do not why He has chosen to do it this way.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I never said I could. But if we need to repent to be saved then it is not a free gift is it? Also, the free gift is eternal life with Jesus, not grace:

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23.

Sure it is a free gift if we were incapable of doing what pleases God and incapable of redeeming ourselves then by His grace He has enabled us to be capable of doing what pleases Him and provided a way for us to be redeemed even tho we do not deserve it that by definition is grace. A free and unmerited favor from God that none of us could attain by our own means or merit.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I cannot do this without doing work.

Why not?

 

[Par5]

Perhaps I mistook your previous posts as hostility instead of mere skepticism. Please forgive my mistake.

Nothing to forgive, but thanks anyway.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

You’ve changed the question again. I never said God cannot forgive a person who doesn’t repent, I said He won’t according to Romans 2.

Why won't he? This has been my question? You and I can forgive others without them repenting. Why won't God do it?

You did this before on the subject of atheists being saved you added the stipulation of them being saved after they die which changed the entire meaning of your original post. Now if your asking why God can’t forgive someone who doesn’t repent then my answer is I don’t know. I’m not aware of any scriptures that give any reason why God can’t forgive those who don’t repent other than because He is just and will judge each person according to their deeds. I don’t think these actually answer the question why but rather explain what He will do not why He has chosen to do it this way.

Do you think it would be helpful to know why? I do.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Sure it is a free gift if we were incapable of doing what pleases God and incapable of redeeming ourselves then by His grace He has enabled us to be capable of doing what pleases Him and provided a way for us to be redeemed even tho we do not deserve it that by definition is grace. A free and unmerited favor from God that none of us could attain by our own means or merit.

I disagree. If I must do something to receive the gift of eternal life it is not a free gift. And again, the free gift is eternal life not grace according to Romans 6.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Why not?

To repent don't I have to actually change my mind? That will take work. What is your definition of repent?

 

[cvanwey]

Before I even begin. I was merely responding to what you stated in post #8:

"There's no Bible scripture that requires good works as a payment for salvation."

For which I responded... Yes there is... Matthew 25:31-46

Now to address your new/different argument below

The text does not speak of each individually having faith in Jesus unto spiritual salvation.

You are right. The entire passage does not speak about their faith in Jesus. It speaks about their works, as such works please Jesus. And that Jesus judges these folks, based upon how much they help others; not their faith.

Such as Ephes.2:8-9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."

You are right. Just like it also says so, about 'faith/belief', in Romans 10:9, Mark 16:16, John 3:15, John 3:36, etc etc etc....

Now we must ask ourselves.... Does God save humans by grace alone, grace by faith alone, grace by faith/works combined, grace by works alone, other, other, other?.?.?.?.? If you think you know, then you know something I don't The message for salvation looks to conflict. You can start by comparing the straight forward passages about faith above, verses the entire passage given in Matthew 25:31-46. Or better yet, ask a Catholic and then ask a Lutheran about the requirements for salvation, just for starters.

In contrast the Matthew text only speaks of nations (who were not saved) but they'd done something on a good moral level (vss 35-40) during the Tribulation .. unsaved people are capable of having a good conscience to do certain right things that are not in any way with the idea that the good thing they do will result in spiritual gain of salvation.. It never worked for the Jews and it certainly will never work for any Gentile. Because there is no scripture that would give anyone that idea.

Unless people like you are reading into the text what it doesn't say.

But it's obvious by the text (Mat.25:34-40) that those of good morals did not even know that the good that they'd done, would result in being selected and therefore designated as/like sheep to enter into the kingdom of God on the earth, the Messianic Millennium. So clearly it was farther from their minds even further that their good moral deeds could possibly result in their spiritual salvation.

The Matthew text simply does not allow for what you think that it does.

While those who did not do good moral things were designated as/like goats who perish (Mat.25:41-46).

I disagree. The Bible is pretty big about the "golden rule". If all that truly matters is faith/belief/repent, then the "golden rule' would not be toughted as the second greatest Commandment. Applying the golden rule requires works towards humans. Matthew 25:31-46 further elaborates on this message. Which raises an interesting question...

Whom is more likely to go to heaven between A) and B)?

A) Is a devout believer in Christ. Prays to Him daily. Repents to Him daily. Proselytizes His Word openly daily. But is not a philanthropist.

B) Is a devout philanthropist. His/her faith in Jesus is on the fence, or even lacking at best.

Like I asked prior above.... "Does God save humans by grace alone, grace by faith alone, grace by faith/works combined, grace by works alone, other, other, other?.?.?.?.?"

But at the end of this discussion, it looks as though God DOES require 'good works'.

So to get completely back on track, with the OP... How do you know you are doing enough?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why won't he? This has been my question? You and I can forgive others without them repenting. Why won't God do it?

Do you think it would be helpful to know why? I do.

Well that’s neither here nor there because the scriptures don’t tell us why. We could make a thousand speculations and be wrong a thousand times and even if we were right on one of them we still wouldn’t know it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

To repent don't I have to actually change my mind? That will take work. What is your definition of repent?

Perhaps it’s just best to lay there in a coma hoping that you’ll be picked for salvation then. Heaven forbid that we actually have to meet any expectations of God to receive eternal life. I mean if changing your mind is a work then no one can have faith without doing work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I disagree. If I must do something to receive the gift of eternal life it is not a free gift. And again, the free gift is eternal life not grace according to Romans 6.

It is free if the works you do aren’t earning you anything. You can do all the works you want but without God’s Grace giving you the atonement and the ability to do what pleases Him your works won’t add up to anything. Hence salvation is not by works but by grace.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why won't he? This has been my question? You and I can forgive others without them repenting. Why won't God do it?

Do you think it would be helpful to know why? I do.

I think ultimately it’s irrelevant. Do you need to know why the car needs gas or do you just need to make sure it has gas?