Are You Doing Enough?

[cvanwey]

There's nothing false in what I said. Your reply proves it. The Bible says that it takes loving God to love people. (Mat.12:30-31; Gal.5:14; Rm.13:8,10)

Now you are just flat out accusing atheists/agnostics/etc of being liars. Atheists love their families and friends, just like professed 'god believers'. Many atheists are philanthropists. Many, whom profess love in a differing god(s) also love their fellow humans.

A 'true-blue' Christian can opt to pass over the homeless person in the street, by not giving them money, when asked. The atheist can do the same. Or, they can both opt to help. I doubt either one has actual love for this homeless person regardless, but likely instead simply possesses basic empathy.

Those kinds of examples of good morals that you gave have never resulted in the people being automatically without belief in God to suddenly without their consent become saved because at no time that they've done those things have they thought that God would save them for having done them.

Nor will it work if anyone did think that good works will result in salvation. There's no text anywhere in the Bible that states it because the Bible is without contradiction. Especially concerning salvation that only comes by believing in God's Son the Savior and redemption of all sin. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by Him. If you do not, then you do not love the truth. But of those who come to Him He will in no wise cast out.

A lot of this was already discussed in post #116

 

[disciple Clint]

Okay, and how does that address what I wrote?

You asked a question and you got an answer.

 

[Moral Orel]

You asked a question and you got an answer.

Okay. I wanted to have a discussion with you, but if you aren't interested, that's fine too.

 

[disciple Clint]

Okay. I wanted to have a discussion with you, but if you aren't interested, that's fine too.

the ball is in your court.

 

[Moral Orel]

the ball is in your court.

If you don't have anything to say yourself, then we can't have a discussion. If you want to answer the questions in post 65 or 88, let me know. I'll be around.

 

[disciple Clint]

If you don't have anything to say yourself, then we can't have a discussion. If you want to answer the questions in post 65 or 88, let me know. I'll be around.

I answered them shortly after you posted them

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Well that’s neither here nor there because the scriptures don’t tell us why. We could make a thousand speculations and be wrong a thousand times and even if we were right on one of them we still wouldn’t know it.

ok

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Perhaps it’s just best to lay there in a coma hoping that you’ll be picked for salvation then. Heaven forbid that we actually have to meet any expectations of God to receive eternal life. I mean if changing your mind is a work then no one can have faith without doing work.

You answered the question already about why this is the case. You don't know. I find it inconsistent that God requires something of us to get a "free' gift but then tells us to forgive others freely.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

It is free if the works you do aren’t earning you anything. You can do all the works you want but without God’s Grace giving you the atonement and the ability to do what pleases Him your works won’t add up to anything. Hence salvation is not by works but by grace.

This is confusing. Ephesians says salvation is by grace through faith not works, Romans 6 says eternal life is a free gift and you say salvation is by grace. In the end you did answer my question.

 

[disciple Clint]

Why won't he? This has been my question? You and I can forgive others without them repenting. Why won't God do it?

Do you think it would be helpful to know why? I do.

Well I would not forgive someone if I though that they would not hesitate to repeat the same action that they are asking me to forgive.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I think ultimately it’s irrelevant. Do you need to know why the car needs gas or do you just need to make sure it has gas?

Why would I spend a lot of my money on gas if I did not know why my car needed it? That is strange to me. This is why cars are ruined at 40,000 miles because people don't know why oil changes are required.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Well I would not forgive someone if I though that they would not hesitate to repeat the same action that they are asking me to forgive.

Why? The bible tells you to do just that. Mt 18:22. God asks you to do this but He is unwilling himself to do it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is confusing. Ephesians says salvation is by grace through faith not works, Romans 6 says eternal life is a free gift and you say salvation is by grace. In the end you did answer my question.

Salvation is by grace. What is grace? Grace is not salvation. Grace is the free gift. The free gift is God giving us the ability to repent and accept Christ. Without this free gift we could not be saved because we would be incapable of repentance and accepting Christ.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Why would I spend a lot of my money on gas if I did not know why my car needed it? That is strange to me. This is why cars are ruined at 40,000 miles because people don't know why oil changes are required.

The why is irrelevant if they just did what they were told. Engines don’t fail because people didn’t know why they need to change the oil, they fail because the oil was not changed.

 

[bling]

If that's the case then what you need to do is be the right sort of person, and that's how you earn eternal salvation. So what is the right sort of person?

1. God predestined prior to man’s time beginning to save all those who humbly accept His charity, but not individuals by name.

2. A newly conceived baby starts out in a “safe” condition not needing to be saved, because the baby has not sinned, yet.

3. Shortly after reaching the age of accountability the person rebelliously disobeys God (sins) and is in need of salvation.

4. The person becomes hell bound, without reason to “Love” God and the desire for the perceived pleasures of sin makes God his/her hated enemy.

5. Sins (acts of hurting others) burdens the person’s heart for at least a while (until the heart becomes hard)?

6. The actions of the person put them in a deadly spiral of hurt with no way to personally rescue themselves.

7. The person attempts to seek and find an escape.

8. The truth about their enemy God is presented to him/her while they are spiraling down to the pigsty of life at times they come to their senses, so they have the opportunity to make an autonomous free will choice to be macho, hang in there, pay the piper and be willing to accept the punishment they fully deserve or they can wimp out, give up on self and surrender to their enemy in hopes/trust/faith of just the possibility the enemy might provide undeserved charity.

9. God showers the person who is still hating Him, with unbelievable wonderful gifts including eternal life, Love, fellowship, new friends, new family, purpose, and a home in heaven.

10. As a result of this Godly type Love and out of gratitude for all these wonderful gifts the person wants to join God’s army, be obedient to God, be baptized, be His child, accept being crucified with Christ (God’s Loving disciplining) and Love others.

11. With this new Godly type Love and with the little faith the person has shown, the Love and faith can now grow with use, to be more and more like Christ.

 

[Hazelelponi]

If God is going to judge in the end, then there is an answer to the question. So if you don't know the answer, are you doing everything you can to tilt the scales in your favor?

Like "pick me, pick me"? Lol... thats not salvation. There's nothing "we can do" to stand out and look better than anyone else.

I'm saved because God decided the worst and most unsavable person on the planet would show the merciful glory of God to mankind, and those my life touches.

Not because I'm better, not because I did something right, but because saving the sinner shows the light of God.

I'm like Paul, I went from persecuting God's chosen ones to salvation in Christ in the span of one heartbeat. Why? All for the praise of God.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Salvation is by grace. What is grace? Grace is not salvation. Grace is the free gift. The free gift is God giving us the ability to repent and accept Christ. Without this free gift we could not be saved because we would be incapable of repentance and accepting Christ.

I understand. But ultimately we need to do something to be saved. Or do all people receiving grace get saved?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

The why is irrelevant if they just did what they were told. Engines don’t fail because people didn’t know why they need to change the oil, they fail because the oil was not changed.

Yes, and it was not changed because the person did not know why it needed to be changed. Why do I need grace to be saved? All you have said is that god says so.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I understand. But ultimately we need to do something to be saved. Or do all people receiving grace get saved?

Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth.

That's it, and this saving faith is a gift, freely given.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth.

That's it, and this saving faith is a gift, freely given.

Believe what and confess what? It is not free. I must do something for it as you just said. God requires something from us to forgive us. No one seems to know why He can't just forgive us without any requirements yet asks us to do that very thing.