Are You Doing Enough?

[Moral Orel]

But yeah, I don't know why I don't do my best with regard to religion or anything else.

I don't do more good things for others because I'm lazy and selfish. Do you think you have a better reason than me?

 

[disciple Clint]

It's not a matter of what it means to me, but what it says. Paul says to the Ephesians that there was nothing they had done previously to earn their salvation. They were in fact so bad he named off the sins they had lived in the past. But even though they were sinners God offered them salvation. Not for anything they had done to deserve it, but rather through his grace.

All of it refers to their past, not their present. Through baptism they were "created in Christ Jesus for good works". And it is through those good works that they would remain in that grace.

I see your reading and it is reasonable. I believe my reading is reasonable as well. The best explanation is that this refers to the whole plan and process of “salvation by grace through faith,” rather than any specific element of it—although, admittedly, the bottom line is hardly any different. Salvation-by-grace-through-faith is not from ourselves but is “a gift of God, not of works.” Once again, the nature of grace is reiterated. This whole plan and process of salvation comes from God as a gift, not from ourselves as the result of works or good things that we have done. What is the meaning of Ephesians 2:8–9? | GotQuestions.org

 

[disciple Clint]

Does every single person receive salvation, or just some people who have done something specific? Whatever that thing is, that's what you have to do to "earn" salvation.

Mark 16:16, and 36 other verses Mark 16:16 Cross References (36 Verses)

 

[Par5]

I’ve thanked many doctors who’ve helped many of my family members and I never asked any of them if they were Christian or not. In any case a doctor or surgeon is a bad example to use because they don’t do it out of the kindness of their heart, this becomes evident when you receive the bill.

Medical treatment is free in the UK, but regardless of whether or not you receive a bill at the conclusion of your treatment, do you honestly believe that doctors, or indeed anyone, as being incapable of showing compassion and care when doing good works? You said yourself that the word love is used to describe compassion and caring.
You also said that your own good works are no longer filthy rags because you have received atonement, so that must put you in a bit of a dilemma when you thank someone who has helped you. Have they too received atonement and are deserving of thanks, or is their help nothing more than a filthy rag? Who says thanks for receiving a filthy rag?
You have also said that if an atheist helped someone and that even though your god considered his help a filthy rag it could still be of help to the recipient.
So if an atheist helped you, would you be happy to accept that help because it was of benefit to you, or would you consider that help a filthy rag. Your god says it is a filthy rag, or perhaps you know better?
Going through life believing that someone's efforts at helping others are only genuine and worthy if they believe as you do is beyond the pale.

 

[Moral Orel]

Mark 16:16, and 36 other verses Mark 16:16 Cross References (36 Verses)

So you just have to believe and be baptized, that's how you earn eternal salvation. Two questions. Believe what exactly? And are you 100% sure that's all it takes?

In Mark 7 it talks about folks who believe Jesus is Lord, but Jesus tells them to "get away from me" and "I never knew you". It sounds to me like there are some Christians who are sure of their salvation but are wrong. How do you know for certain you aren't one of them?

 

[Par5]

1 Cor 13:3

if I give away all my possessions to charity, and if I surrender my body so that I may glory, but do not have love, it does me no good.

Christians do not have the monopoly when it comes to love!

 

[HTacianas]

So you know you could do more. Are you sure you're doing enough to make the cut? It's not as though I'm saying God is keeping a score card of good deeds. But if you're the sort of person that puts your own comfort above the needs of others, do you think you're the sort of person God is letting in?

I think that a person who places someone else in a position of discomfort for their own comfort likely wouldn't be someone "God is letting in".

 

[HTacianas]

I see your reading and it is reasonable. I believe my reading is reasonable as well. The best explanation is that this refers to the whole plan and process of “salvation by grace through faith,” rather than any specific element of it—although, admittedly, the bottom line is hardly any different. Salvation-by-grace-through-faith is not from ourselves but is “a gift of God, not of works.” Once again, the nature of grace is reiterated. This whole plan and process of salvation comes from God as a gift, not from ourselves as the result of works or good things that we have done. What is the meaning of Ephesians 2:8–9? | GotQuestions.org

The idea of "salvation by grace through faith" is the means of entering into salvation. Just like Ephesians 2 says, it is not a reward for anything anyone has done, it is solely by the grace of God. But entering into salvation is not the end, else it would not say "he who endures to the end shall be saved".

And just so you know, I don't care much for gotquestions.org.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Christians do not have the monopoly when it comes to love!

Only Christians have the Love of Jesus Himself residing within them motivating them to do His works.

 

[Moral Orel]

I think that a person who places someone else in a position of discomfort for their own comfort likely wouldn't be someone "God is letting in".

Sure, them too. Now how about the fella who puts his comfort before the needs of others? 1 John 3:17

 

[HTacianas]

Sure, them too. Now how about the fella who puts his comfort before the needs of others? 1 John 3:17

That is one of the origins of Christian charity. See Matthew 25.

 

[Moral Orel]

That is one of the origins of Christian charity. See Matthew 25.

I think you're avoiding my actual question because you can't think of a way to justify putting yourself before others.

 

[disciple Clint]

So you just have to believe and be baptized, that's how you earn eternal salvation. Two questions. Believe what exactly? And are you 100% sure that's all it takes?

In Mark 7 it talks about folks who believe Jesus is Lord, but Jesus tells them to "get away from me" and "I never knew you". It sounds to me like there are some Christians who are sure of their salvation but are wrong. How do you know for certain you aren't one of them?

What did Jesus mean when He said, “I never knew you. Depart from me”? | GotQuestions.org

 

[HTacianas]

I think you're avoiding my actual question because you can't think of a way to justify putting yourself before others.

Actually I'm avoiding your question because it leads up to "who gets into heaven and who doesn't", and that's not up to me.

 

[disciple Clint]

The idea of "salvation by grace through faith" is the means of entering into salvation. Just like Ephesians 2 says, it is not a reward for anything anyone has done, it is solely by the grace of God. But entering into salvation is not the end, else it would not say "he who endures to the end shall be saved".

And just so you know, I don't care much for gotquestions.org.

We are never going to agree on this point, I could find numerous proof texts from the Epistles of Paul but that is not going to change your Sacramental based Theology, you believe that works are required for salvation and that Grace and Sanctification is gained through Sacraments. I respect your right to your beliefs, my beliefs are based on Salvation by Grace through Faith alone

 

[fwGod]

Yes there is... Does God label you a "sheep" or a "goat"?

Matthew 25:31-46

The text does not speak of each individually having faith in Jesus unto spiritual salvation. Such as Ephes.2:8-9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."

There were those during the Tribulation that 'got saved' that way. And so they are called 'the saints' who for a time there is testimony that they overcome the antichrist. But the next line states that they loved not their life unto death. So they were martyred.

In contrast the Matthew text only speaks of nations (who were not saved) but they'd done something on a good moral level (vss 35-40) during the Tribulation .. unsaved people are capable of having a good conscience to do certain right things that are not in any way with the idea that the good thing they do will result in spiritual gain of salvation.. It never worked for the Jews and it certainly will never work for any Gentile. Because there is no scripture that would give anyone that idea.

Unless people like you are reading into the text what it doesn't say.

But it's obvious by the text (Mat.25:34-40) that those of good morals did not even know that the good that they'd done, would result in being selected and therefore designated as/like sheep to enter into the kingdom of God on the earth, the Messianic Millennium. So clearly it was farther from their minds even further that their good moral deeds could possibly result in their spiritual salvation.

The Matthew text simply does not allow for what you think that it does.

While those who did not do good moral things were designated as/like goats who perish (Mat.25:41-46).

 

[fwGod]

The passage speaks about works. @fwGod stated "There's no Bible scripture that requires good works as a payment for salvation."

This assertion is false. You can help your fellow neighbor and not love them, right? Have you ever stopped on the side of the road to give someone's car a jump start, or helped someone in the parking lot trying to place a heavy item into their truck? I doubt you love them.

There's nothing false in what I said. Your reply proves it. The Bible says that it takes loving God to love people. (Mat.12:30-31; Gal.5:14; Rm.13:8,10)

Those kinds of examples of good morals that you gave have never resulted in the people being automatically without belief in God to suddenly without their consent become saved because at no time that they've done those things have they thought that God would save them for having done them.

Nor will it work if anyone did think that good works will result in salvation. There's no text anywhere in the Bible that states it because the Bible is without contradiction. Especially concerning salvation that only comes by believing in God's Son the Savior and redemption of all sin. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by Him. If you do not, then you do not love the truth. But of those who come to Him He will in no wise cast out.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Please explain the difference.

Grace is what God grants us to make us capable of repentance. There are several examples of those who have received grace but still choose not to repent. Romans 2 is one of these examples.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not what I asked.

if I die as an atheist, will I receive the free gift of salvation?

I didn’t see anything about if you die in that post. My mistake.

 

[Par5]

Only Christians have the Love of Jesus Himself residing within them motivating them to do His works.

Why do you need to be motivated by someone to do good things?
People shouldn't need an outside agency to motivate them to do good things. Their motivation comes from their own sense of empathy and the fact that they are helping another sentient being like themselves.
It is typical Christian arrogance to think that their good works are better than those of the non believer's "dirty rags".
You give the impression that it is more important that your good works please your god rather than what actual benefit they are to those you are meant to be helping.