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Hi, P/N/B/ here:
Eternal is what that means! Immortal
Christ as man/God was a [Plan] to be brought foward that was Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant!
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Ed, slow down, your mind is set in concrete!Could you be wrong??
Read Rom. 4:17's LAST PART. Ask yourself if God can & didcall Christ His Son, 'even before He was'? All the verses that you take time to print fefer to the time of the PLAN of Salvation after its conception. In other words, Christ
is looking back as God/man!
The statement "Jehovah God as Creator is called Father" is correct and implies nothing more than it says. Jehovah is rightly called Father. What you think it implies is irrelevant.
This is a contradition in terms. All Disciples of Christ are Christians and all Christians are Disciples of Christ. Please Ed, show me a scripture where this is not so.
So all other translations of this verse is wrong except Goodspeeds. I dont think so. Why then dont you just stick to Goodspeeds Translation for all your other verses if its so good.
This too contradicts your first statement here that no one else is called father except "The Father". the statement "Jehovah God as Creator is called Father" is FALSE because it implies that there could be other Fathers (of Spirits) besides God. God alone is the Father of Spirits (Heb. 12:9). There is NO other Father besides God
Oh yes it does.
Romans 6:22-23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord".
On what basis does God give life everlasting except to those who come under the redeeming value of Christs sacrificial death through his shed blood?
1 Corinthians 15:44-45 It is even so written: The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Life giving to who?
Does Jesus have his fleshly body in heaven?
Hebrews 9:11-12 However, when Christ came as a high priest of the good things that have come to pass, through the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, he entered, no, not with the blood of goats and of young bulls, but with his own blood, once for all time into the holy place and obtained an everlasting deliverance [for us].
This blood symbolized his perfect human life which he sacrificed on mans behalf.
edpobre, you wrote:
With due respects, your belief is FALSE. The DISCIPLES of Christ were first called Christians in Antioch (Acts 11:26). And a DISCIPLE of Christ is one who BELIEVES in Christ and ABIDES in his word or teaching (John 8:31).
Look, you have no authority to determine ANYTHING about my beliefs or anyone else's beliefs. You only have authority over your beliefs, period.
The Acts and John cites you have provided are irrelevent to my post.
Hello everyone! First please pardon my interuption as I have not read all 26 pages nor do I plan to. I find this NONSENSE!!! TRINITARIANS VS. NONTRINITARIANS....ARE WE ARE THEY CHRISTAINS?
IF YOU READ YOUR BIBLE IT IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT BEHIND TRINITY AND WHY THEY BELIEVE THE WAY THEY DO I DON'T CARE FOR THE CEED BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT HAS FLAWS BUT I WON'T DARE SAY SOMEONE ISN'T A CHRISTIAN JUST BECAUSE THEY DO BELIEVE NOR SHOULD ANYONE SAY I'M NOT BECAUSE I DON'T ACCEPT IT.
MOST NON-TRINITARIANS HAVE BIBLICAL REASONING FOR BELIEVING AS THEY DO AND THE SAME FOR SOME TRINITARIANS....WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG I'LL LET GOD DECIDE....AS FAR AS I KNOW HE ONLY ASKED FOR OUR LOVE NOT OUR FIGURING HIS DEMINSIONS OUT COMPLETELY. GOD IS EVERYWHERE.
Heres another arguement for you to deal with.
While it is true that Jesus Christ, in his role as the Son of God, subordinated Himself to the will of His Father (see Philp 2:6) He nevertheless still retained the nature of deity, and there are numerous indications of this in the New Testament.
Next arguement comes from Deuteronomy 6:4 " Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
Again, yes I belive that there is only 1 God/divine nature. Notice is this verse that the word God is the Heb word Elohim which is plural. Then the word one is the Heb word Ehad, a word that can denote a compound unity. Ehad "stresses unity while recognizing diversity within that oneness" (Theological WordBook of the Old Testament Vol. I, p. 30)
You claim that Jesus was just a man a created being. So, when we become a christian and we are united with Christ as Rom 6:5 says you are saying that we are just being united with a fellow created being. Is this what you are claiming? How can Jesus be begotten of the father and not be both God and man. When something begats something it has the same properties. A dog begats a dog, a horse begats a horse and so on.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Ok, how are you going to twist this scripture. It plainly says that God was manifest (phaneroo, verb ind aor pass 3rd per sing , make known, reveal, show; make evident or plain; pass. be revealed or made known; be evident or plain; appear, reveal oneself) in the flesh. Who was revealed in the flesh? Jesus.
Ed, you are wresting and twisting scriptures. I am not rejecting anything, you are, I do believe what Jesus said about Himself, but not just the one or two verses you keep repeating. You deliberately omitted (rejected) part of John, to try to make it support you man-made doctrine.Posted by ElPobre
How can Jesus be God? How can Jesus raise himself up by himself when he has stated that "of himself he can do NOTHING?"
Are you rejecting what apostles Peter and Paul wrote becuse they do NOT conform with your belief that Jesus is God? Why can't you believe what Jesus said about himself and about God?
Non - Trinitarians Are Christians for christianity is a way of life, to live as christ lived.
*****Originally posted by edpobre
Originally posted by Pastor N.B.
Please support your OPINION with scripture.
Ed
By Edpobre Then why do you find it necessary to say that "Jehovah God AS CREATOR is called Father?"
Originally posted by edpobre
If you go to my post again, you will notice that I said "SO-CALLED" spritually begotten Christians. Not everyone who say he is a DISCIPLE of Christ is TRUE disciple of Christ. Hence, NOT everyone who says he is "spiritually begotten" is a Christian.
Originally posted by edpobre
Are we not talking about a specific verse and NOT the whole Bible? We do NOT have our own translation of the Bible like what the JWs did. We are not saying that the SmithGoodspeed Translation is the best. We are only saying that as far as Isaiah 9:6 is concerned, the Smith-Goodspeed Translation is ACCURATE while others are NOT.
Originally posted by edpobre
Are you saying that what Jesus said in Matt. 23:9 is FALSE?
Romans 6:22-23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord". On what basis does God give life everlasting except to those who come under the redeeming value of Christs sacrificial death through his shed blood? 1 Corinthians 15:44-45 It is even so written: The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. Life giving to who?
Eds answer
We call Jesus our Lord and SAVIOR - not Lord and Father. That's what the apostles TAUGHT and did.
By Edpobre
I go by what the Bible teaches. Jesus is a MAN who was appointed to judge the world (Acts 17:31). Jesus is a MAN who IS the MEDIATOR between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5). Jesus will be SEEN when he comes again (Matt. 24:30).
Posted by ElPobre
How can Jesus be God? How can Jesus raise himself up by himself when he has stated that "of himself he can do NOTHING?"
Are you rejecting what apostles Peter and Paul wrote becuse they do NOT conform with your belief that Jesus is God? Why can't you believe what Jesus said about himself and about God?
Ed, you are wresting and twisting scriptures. I am not rejecting anything, you are, I do believe what Jesus said about Himself, but not just the one or two verses you keep repeating. You deliberately omitted (rejected) part of John, to try to make it support you man-made doctrine.
Vs. 19 you omitted the words, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. So this passage does not prove that Jesus cannot, does not, act alone. Jesus acts alone, but He is guided, instructed, or commanded by the Father, as in John 10:18.
Therefore, when Jesus said, in Jn 2:19, I will raise it (the temple of His body) up. that is what He meant.
Because all power and authority in heaven and earth had been given to Jesus and He had specifically received commandment from the Father to take up His life again. Your twisted interpretation of John 5:19, makes Jesus a liar in John 2:19 and 10:18.
Vs. 21, the Son gives life to whom He wants to, see John 17:2, below.
John 17:2
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
As I said you need to read the Bible and learn what it actually says, instead of just repeating your Iglesias Ni Manalo doctrine, over and over again.
John 10:18[/b] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jesus was commanded by, and given power by, God to take up His life again.
John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Jesus said that He would raise up His body. Note, all things, all authority, all power, was given to Jesus by the Father.
Matt 28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father:
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
Kain,
Let me clarify what I mean by Trinitarian God. I do not mean the mongrelized, illegitimatized three god, horse droppings, that virtually all anti-Trinitarians drag out every time they talk about Trinity, as Kain did in his previous post. If you are here attacking the Trinity and you dont know what you are attacking, then go look it up and Ill discuss the truth with you when you come back.
Start with the assumption that Trinitarians believe in ONE God!
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