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Are Trinitarians Christians?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by edpobre, Aug 22, 2002.

  1. YES

  2. NO

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  1. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    Friends,

    Most Trinitarians (those who believe that there is only ONE God in THREE persons - some call it a TRIUNE God) assert that they are firm BELIEVERS of the Bible and of Jesus. Some even go to the extent of CLAIMING that Trinitarians ALONE are Christians and NON-Trinitarians are NOT!

    Can Trinitarians show Biblical proof that they are Christians while NON-Trinitarians are NOT? Please vote!

    Ed
     
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  2. Shane Roach

    Shane Roach Well-Known Member

    +1,229
    Christian
    No one can force you to believe anything. Are you unfamiliar with the verses normally used in describing what Trinitarians mean when they say "trinity"? If so, it seems to me you already know the answer to your question.

    I can only tell you if being a non-trinitarian means you are not a Christian if you explain to me what you mean by that. If you mean that Jesus is not Lord, then it seems clear that this means you are not a Christian.
     
  3. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

    520
    +11
    Christian
    Ed,

    I've already seen you dont believe that Jesus is God, however, may i ask who you believe the Holy Spirit is ?
     
  4. ansarthemystic

    ansarthemystic Member

    128
    +0
    Are trinitarians Christians with a capital C? No!

    peace and blessings
    assalamu alaikum
    shalom
     
  5. Duane Morse

    Duane Morse Well-Known Member

    +7
    Here is what I think:
    God the Father is the Daddy, the male
    God the Holy Spirit is Mommy, the female
    God the Son is the kid, the offspring

    They are all distinct within themselves, but they are one whole.
    God is one, and God is three
    Father, Holy Spirit, Son = God God = Father, Holy Spirit, Son
    Alpha is the beginning God, Omega is the ending God, Alpha-Omega = God Almighty.
    God Almighty = Life and Love and Light
     
  6. Shane Roach

    Shane Roach Well-Known Member

    +1,229
    Christian
    I think God the father is God's soul, the Holy Spirit is, well obviously, His Spirit, and the Son is His word made flesh, or His eternal body made flesh in translation from the concept of "word". It is by God's word that all things were made. God's word therefore seems symbolic also of his physical power.

    The problem with Christ is that it appears God sent His soul, the Father, into His worldy body, the Son, and hid from the brain of that body much of what the Father actually knows, such that the Father is then capable of experiencing what it is like not to be omnipotent.

    There are those who argue God cannot do something that is conceptually impossible, and it is from this angle that the argument that the three cannot be one seems to come. But, I think arguing that God can't do something conceptually impossible goes counter to very plain Biblical teaching. His ways are higher than our ways, who can comprehend Him and all that.
     
  7. My Higher Self

    My Higher Self Sense Offender

    599
    +11
    This is an interesting topic. I know a guy who is part of a christian religion that borders on being occult. They take the bible very literally and he has emphasised many times that contemporary christians focus WAY too much on christ. He says they are worshipping Jesus more so than god as a whole....
     
  8. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    Ed can you show that trinitarians are not Christians? PLease vote. :)
     
  9. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +21
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    You don't have enough choices in your poll.. Not all Christians are Trinitarians, and not all Trinitarians are Christians.

    Trinitarians can be Christians, if that is what you are looking for.
     
  10. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    +218
    Atheist
    Private
    Howdy partners, Well, I guess this is my assigned cell since I am a defender of the faith and I have this bad habit of exposing false teachings and doctrines that have absolutely nothing to do with scripture, so let me throw in my 2 quarters for what it might be worth. As a former strong supporter of the doctrine of the three in one god, I really do not like the idea of being considered a non believer or a non Christian if I do not support this doctrine or any of the man made creeds. At the same time I would not consider someone who supports the trinity to be a non Christian either.  I would just say they are like I was before I had my paridigm shift in beliefs. They just need to dig deeper into the scriptures to see what is really and truely being taught and subordinate all the opinions of men to second place. Creeds are not inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The scripture is the inspired word of God and if the doctrine of the trinity is so clear in the scriptures then why did not even Christ Himself or the Apostles teach it?  I challenge all you trinitarians to show the scriptural proof and not what you have been traditionally taught. It has been customary in the thinking of most Christians to resort to saying since the trinity is a complete mystery and we cannot even begin to understand it throughly, we should just accept as fact that the Bible teaches it and just believe it by faith! Never did any preacher of the Gospel, recorded in the Bible, resort to saying, "This is a complete mystery, you cannot begin to understand it". Instead, we read of them appealing to people through reason and drawing logical conclusions from Scripture.  Gee, is that a concept or what? 
     
  11. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +21
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    The doctrine is not based upon a creed, but upon the verses that the creed assebmles.  To study the Doctrine or the Trinity, you would find the same verses that the creed used in the first place.

    As a Christian, I studied, learned, and accepted the Trinity, without even knowing about the Creed.  It did nothing to shape my views. 
     
  12. PrinceJeff

    PrinceJeff Well-Known Member

    +0
    1 John 5:7-8
    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

    Other versions say "agree as one". Why couldn't all three agree as one if not equal?
     
  13. \o/

    \o/ Member

    153
    +0
     :eek:
     
  14. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
    The Trinity is a basic doctrine of orthodox Christianity. Yet the word "Trinity" is not found anywhere in the Bible. Is the doctrine of the Trinity really biblical?
    The doctrine of the Trinity says that there is one God who exists eternally as three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I can assure you that the elements of this doctrine are all taken directly from the Bible.
    The first plank of the Trinitarian platform is that there is only one God. The Bible could not be more explicit on this point, which it states explicitly about two dozen times. In Isaiah 44:8 God says that even He does not know of any other gods!
    Jesus often spoke of God as His Father, and the apostles frequently spoke of "God the Father." But the New Testament also insists that Jesus is God. For example, Thomas acknowledged Jesus as, "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28), and both Peter and Paul spoke of Jesus as "our God and Savior" (2 Pet. 1:1; [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]. 2:13). Yet the New Testament also makes the distinction between the Father and the Son as two very different persons. In fact they tell us that they love one another, speak to each other, and seek to glorify each other (e.g., John 17: 1-26).
    The Old Testament refers often to the Holy Spirit as God at work in the world, without distinction from the Father. But Jesus in John 14 to 16 explained that this Holy Spirit would be sent by the Father at Christ's request. The Holy Spirit would teach and guide the disciples, not speaking on His own initiative, but speaking on Christ's behalf and glorifying Christ. Thus, the Holy Spirit is revealed by Christ to be a third person distinct from the Father and distinct from the Son.
    In short, the doctrine of the Trinity is completely and totally biblical, and it is essential that all Christians give assent to this doctrine.
    &nbsp;
     
  15. Hojo Hominygrits

    Hojo Hominygrits Now with 25% more hominy!

    213
    +0
    Non-Denom
    Water can be vapor, solid, and liquid in form and still be water. Why can't God be the same? The basic nature of the elements that make up our universe I think are a reflection of the character of their Creator.

    Ok, no more deep thoughts by Hojo. It makes my brain hurt Mr. Gumby. :(
     
  16. Gunny

    Gunny Remnant Supporter

    +85
    Christian
    Married
    Possibly, Oneness Pentecostalism?


    GySgt James
     
  17. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +0
    ZoneChaos,

    Are you saying that&nbsp; those who do NOT believe the Nicene Creed can be Christians too! Then why&nbsp;was I told NOT to post in the "Christians Only" forum because I don't believe the Nicene Creed?&nbsp;Is there a &nbsp;NON-Trinitarian who believes ther Nicene Creed?

    Ed
     
  18. LewisWildermuth

    LewisWildermuth Senior Veteran

    +116
    Christian
    Single
    There are actualy four states of mater to my knowlege, solid, liquid, gasseous, and plasma.

    You forgot the plasma state... If your analogy holds true what is the fourth state of God?
     
  19. LewisWildermuth

    LewisWildermuth Senior Veteran

    +116
    Christian
    Single
    On to the topic of the thread, can trinitarians and non-trinitarians both be Christians? Sure since the only definition for being a Christian in the Bible is belief in Jesus as savior.
     
  20. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

    520
    +11
    Christian

    Hiya PrinceJeff,


    I'm a strong supporter of a Trinity doctrine and believer that Jesus is God. If you do a little research on that verse you'll find that it only appears in a few later manuscripts. It's suspected by most scholars that the verse was added to the passage in error.


    Regards
     
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