Are These Mystic Practices OK?

[gratefulgrace]

I have never heard of anyone meditating so that they can "mindlessly chant a mantra." Within both Judeo-Christian and Eastern Philosophy, there are differing ideas of what meditation is about. I understand that the Jewish concept of meditation is different from Eastern ideas. My question is whether it is intrinsically inappropriate for a Christian to engage in "meditation" practices that are intended to quiet the mind and increase mindfulness of our thoughts and feelings (which is essentially the idea of meditation taught within Buddhism and similar Eastern philosophical traditions). If you believe this practice is inappropriate, please explain using Scripture.

Yes as I do not think it is our thoughts and feelings that will in the end quiet and comfort our soul. This seems to be the goal of biblical meditation as we dwell on the greatness of our God. I do not see examples in scripture of the kind of meditation you are describing but it definitely was the type that maharishi advocated. If you have any you think fit please share them. The mantra given in TM was not even a known thing but a portion of the vedic scritpures given at the time of pagan initiation into TM that included "offerings". This was touted as totally acceptable for any faith. I disagreed and told him that a true Believer in Christ could not do this thing. it is pagan and has no place in the life of a Christian. I have no problem with Christian meditation as displayed in scripture.

 

[dies-l]

Yes as I do not think it is our thoughts and feelings that will in the end quiet and comfort our soul. This seems to be the goal of biblical meditation as we dwell on the greatness of our God. I do not see examples in scripture of the kind of meditation you are describing but it definitely was the type that maharishi advocated. If you have any you think fit please share them. The mantra given in TM was not even a known thing but a portion of the vedic scritpures given at the time of pagan initiation into TM that included "offerings". This was touted as totally acceptable for any faith. I disagreed and told him that a true Believer in Christ could not do this thing. it is pagan and has no place in the life of a Christian. I have no problem with Christian meditation as displayed in scripture.

Just to clarify, I am not talking about TM as practiced and taught by Hindus. I fully understand why this would concern Christians as it involved recitation of mantras that would seem to invoke Hindu deities. I am more interested in your opinion on mindfulness meditation as is sometimes associated with Buddhist cultures. This is the practice of consciously being aware of what one is thinking and feeling. Generally, this practice does not involve chanting mantras and it makes no reference to deity. The only aim of this style of meditation is to learn to overcome mindless thoughts and feelings. I am not asking whether you believe that it is okay to be a Buddhist, only whether you believe that the practice I have described (which is quite different from TM) is inconsistent with Scripture.

I do appreciate the openness of your responses.

 

[gratefulgrace]

There is a lot about Buddhist teaching that is noble and I often think of it as the life a christian should strive for in many ways. It is just not possible to be the way they advocate without first submitting to the Lord of Lords. Advocated as a way of death to self it is actually the untimate worship of self. There is no way to perfect or purify ourselves God has clearly shown us that. My point is that we cannot do these things , clear our minds calm our souls. We can try to mimic some religious form of meditation, step one step two etc. shutting out the world. This is NOT important IMHO. And in fact in doing so I think we deaden ouselves in many ways to the reality of suffering and what we need to do energized by the spirit of God about it. We can get caught up in the "me"ness of it all. This is not going to still and quiet my soul only the Lord can do this as I surrender and trust in all He IS rest in His Spirit. So I guess my answer is no. I would still like to see any scriptures you have though. gg

 

[dies-l]

I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your response. I have my disagreements, but I don't think that this is proper forum to express them. Your response helps me at least to understand your position and why you feel the way you do. Thnx.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Thats cool.

 

[OLDGUY]

dies-l
Thank you for reminding me that I am often too blunt in what I say.
Mont - Please accept my apologies if I have seemed argumentative.

 

[AnneSally]

I don't feel at ease with either and couldn't do them with a clear conscience I think.

That's how I feel too. I did Yoga before I became a Christian and really enjoyed it. But I don't feel comfortable doing it as Christian because it is connected to a spiritual practice that is at odds with Christianity.

 

[dugger]

Since we don't know how to start a thread yet we'll post this here-

What do "fundamentalist" think of the mystic masons? Maybe someone that knows how can post a poll.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Just go to the main page of this forum heading and link at top of page and then click post new thread. It is pretty easy from there on. Hope you can figure it out it may be a lively topic. gg

 

[dugger]

Thanks gratefulgrace, that did it!-Shabbat Shalom

 

[bloodbought09]

No to both. Exercise and stretching are good for our body, which is the temple of the Holy Ghost. I do not know what yoga is all about, and do not practice it myself, but I still would not go out to learn or practice it. I agree with some here about repeating scripture, reading the bible to renew the mind, can be a good way, not to empty but to get the mind off of the day and on something else. The name Jesus repeatedly would be okay, especially under spiritual attack or anxiety. Bless.

 

[Test All Things2]

Hello, I am surprised that nobody mentions what the possible dangers of yoga are? I have not seen the term kundalini mentioned once here yet. Kundalini is derived from a Sanskrit word meaning either "coiled up" or "coiling like a snake", and has sometimes also been referred to as "serpent fire." That should be more than enough of a clue for a "discerning christian that this is not anything for a believer to be involved with..

What is kundalini? This is what the "hardcore yoga" practitioners are seeking after. It is an effect if you will that is most definetely a spiritual experience. Some describe it as a feeling like the back of your head is being blown-off, and there is usually a strong sense of intense brightness or light that accompanies the experience. They call this shaktipat that leads to enlightenment under the guidance of a spiritual master (or guru).

Another tradition believes that Kundalini awakening can be accomplished through intentional yogic techniques including Mantra, Hatha Yoga, Laya Yoga, Prana, Kriya Yoga or Raja Yoga.The awakening of kundalini means awakening of inner knowledge, awareness and evolved consciousness.

Kundalini is a concentrated form of prana or life force, lying dormant in chakras in the body. It is conceptualized as a coiled up serpent (literally, 'kundalini' in Sanskrit is 'That which is coiled.' Sanskrit kund, "to burn"; kunda, "to coil or to spiral"). The serpent is considered to be female, coiled up three and a half times, with its mouth engulfing the base of the Sushumna nadi.

In the classical literature of Kashmir Shaivism kundalini is described in three different manifestations. The first of these is as the universal energy or para-kundalini. The second of these is as the energizing function of the body-mind complex or prana-kundalini. The third of these is as consciousness or shakti-kundalini which simultaneously subsumes and intermediates between these two. Ultimately these three forms are the same but understanding these three different forms will help to understand the different manifestations of kundalini .

The path of Kundalini is said to proceed from the Muladhara Chakra at the lower end of the spinal column up to the Sahasara Chakra at the top of the head. But its awakening is not thought to be a physical occurrence; it consists exclusively of a development in consciousness. According to some sources, awakening of kundalini brings with it pure joy, pure knowledge and pure love.

According to one source, the word kundalini literally means "the curl of the lock of hair of the beloved. It is a metaphor, a poetic way of describing the flow of energy and consciousness which already is said to exist within each person. The practices are said to enable the person to merge with or "yoke" the universal self. This merging of individual consciousness with the universal consciousness is said to create a "divine union" called "yoga". The term yoga actually means "being yoked to, or yoked with, in union with, being joined to, or in conjunction with."

Pay close attention as the much of the above information is from the Wikipedia definition of kundalini yoga. The above description talks about "manifestations" and "awakenings" these references should alarm christians to the true potential dangers these practices pose. The guru in these types of yoga literally imparts or passes something of a spiritual nature to you. Totally taboo for God's children.

 

[dugger]

Some of these things sound like the effects of hypnotism-what about that?

 

[bloodbought09]

I did not know that yoga involved kundalini. I used to study and meditate on chakras, and heard a little bit about awakening kundalini back then. Not knowing anything about it, I would meditate and attempt to become enlightened. When I started getting into Christianity I felt something leading me to not do these practices anymore, since I would do them with prayer to God. I was pretty much blind back then to the occult, thinking even the word occult was a good thing. Others may think it is pretty cool, but it isn't, especially for those professing to follow Christ. Anyway, if yoga involves kundalini, then that would have to be a double no. It is nothing to be fooled around with.

 

[Test All Things2]

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

"Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil."
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Romans 12:9

"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Amos 5:14-15

Seek good not evil, that you may live. Then the Lord God Almighty will be with you, just as you say he is. "Hate evil, love good."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 8:13

"To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior, and perverse speech
-------------------------------------------------------------
Psalm 97:10

"Let those who love the Lord hate evil."
-------------------------------------------------------------

God is speaking to us here in these scriptures. We are to be discerning are we not?

 

[bloodbought09]

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22

"Test everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 12:9

"Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Amos 5:14-15

Seek good not evil, that you may live. Then the Lord God Almighty will be with you, just as you say he is. "Hate evil, love good."
-------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 8:13

"To fear the Lord is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior, and perverse speech
-------------------------------------------------------------
Psalm 97:10

"Let those who love the Lord hate evil."
-------------------------------------------------------------

God is speaking to us here in these scriptures. We are to be discerning are we not?

 

[gratefulgrace]

Lots of good information here. It is amazing how warmed up to these practises we have come to be in the west. If the water heats up just a degree at a time a frog will not jump out even to the point of boiling to death. I am concerned that this is happening to unaware believers around us as they practise their "christian yoga and martial arts". Bloodbought i find it extremely significant that the Holy Spirit most definitely led you out of these practises once you had become a Christian. for that reason I do not think it is He that leads us into these things as Christians but the deciever.gg

 

[bloodbought09]

Lots of good information here. It is amazing how warmed up to these practises we have come to be in the west. If the water heats up just a degree at a time a frog will not jump out even to the point of boiling to death. I am concerned that this is happening to unaware believers around us as they practise their "christian yoga and martial arts". Bloodbought i find it extremely significant that the Holy Spirit most definitely led you out of these practises once you had become a Christian. for that reason I do not think it is He that leads us into these things as Christians but the deciever.gg

Yes, of course, I did not mean to insinuate that God led me into wicked practices. It is He that allowed me to become reprobate, doing those things that offend. My own desire to get to know who I am, led me into astrology, numerology, palmistry, and somewhat deeper into the occult. As you know, when we find our life, we lose it, but when we lose our life for Him, we find it. It is not by my own might I have come out of any of this. It had to be done by the powerful hand of God and my willingness to let it go. I do not necessarily blame to deceiver, but the deceived and lack of knowledge. The deceiver just holds it out there as bait, to see if we will take it, and then reels us in. We have to look past the line, the hook, and the bait, to what is holding the fishing pole. The devil is a fisher of men into bondage, but we are fishers of men, to deliverance, to freedom. Some false religions throw out their fishing nets and catch men to gather and use all the faculties given to them, then throw the bones and organs away. This is a white washed tomb, full of dead men's bones, but the body of christ collects people, trains them up, equips them, to go get others to train and equip. It is full of life, a well functioning body. Bless.

 

[Test All Things2]

Hello BloodBought09, please if I can ask of you: what caused or how did this realization of these things come upon you?

Me and my wife seperated after 25 years of marriage because of her involvment in these type of spiritual practices. I would really like to know what the process or mindset was that brought this process on within you. Was there something in particular (oe event) that brought great conviction within you. I would really like to hear more about how that happened (or what caused it to happen). I am hoping the same thing will happen for my wife.

She is caught up in many "new age" practices even though she professes to be a christian. She has alot of this stuff confused with being of God even.

Please I would ask of you for some understanding in how you came to realize these practices were not for you as a christian, and how you were set free from them. Did this involve other christians at all?

Thank you in advance for your consideration.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Yes, of course, I did not mean to insinuate that God led me into wicked practices. It is He that allowed me to become reprobate, doing those things that offend. My own desire to get to know who I am, led me into astrology, numerology, palmistry, and somewhat deeper into the occult. As you know, when we find our life, we lose it, but when we lose our life for Him, we find it. It is not by my own might I have come out of any of this. It had to be done by the powerful hand of God and my willingness to let it go. I do not necessarily blame to deceiver, but the deceived and lack of knowledge. The deceiver just holds it out there as bait, to see if we will take it, and then reels us in. We have to look past the line, the hook, and the bait, to what is holding the fishing pole. The devil is a fisher of men into bondage, but we are fishers of men, to deliverance, to freedom. Some false religions throw out their fishing nets and catch men to gather and use all the faculties given to them, then throw the bones and organs away. This is a white washed tomb, full of dead men's bones, but the body of christ collects people, trains them up, equips them, to go get others to train and equip. It is full of life, a well functioning body. Bless.

Well said. I do however believe that Satan does ensnare us and as unregenerate souls we have minimal power to discern his schemes. Even with God's Spirit in our lives we can actively chose wrong but we do not need to. We are free and have the power to say as Christ did "Get thee behind me satan". How awesome He is to bring us into live that overflows with goodness and peace and joy.
gg