Are These Mystic Practices OK?

[OLDGUY]

Good point, but when I relax and stretch I am trying to concentrate on being closer and listening to God not emptying my mind. Does that make a difference?

 

[mont974x4]

It would best to just simply pray and read your Bible and practice memorizing Scripture as we are commanded.

The Jews of the OT were always in trouble for adding pagan practices to the routine. Even when they, like in the time of Isaiah, still did what God commanded in addition to what He had not commanded they were in trouble. God rejected even the sacrifices and offerings they were doing that He had commanded.

Think about what it means to be totally serparate, comepletely different, from the world.

 

[Faith.Man]

It would best to just simply pray and read your Bible and practice memorizing Scripture as we are commanded.

The Jews of the OT were always in trouble for adding pagan practices to the routine. Even when they, like in the time of Isaiah, still did what God commanded in addition to what He had not commanded they were in trouble. God rejected even the sacrifices and offerings they were doing that He had commanded.

Think about what it means to be totally separate, completely different, from the world.

A non-Denominational church my wife and I were members of brought in New Age visualization techniques into our worship. My wife and I agreed that this was not of God and left the church.

Your advice about reading your Bible, simply praying and memorizing Scripture is right on target.

 

[DeaconDean]

I think yoga is OK, and even meditaing is OK for we are told in the scriptures:

1. Genesis 24:63
   And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming.
   Genesis 24:62-64 (in Context) Genesis 24 (Whole Chapter)
2. Joshua 1:8
   This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
   Joshua 1:7-9 (in Context) Joshua 1 (Whole Chapter)
3. Psalm 1:2
   But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
   Psalm 1:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 1 (Whole Chapter)
4. Psalm 63:6
   When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.
   Psalm 63:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 63 (Whole Chapter)
5. Psalm 77:12
   I will meditate also of all thy work, and talk of thy doings.
   Psalm 77:11-13 (in Context) Psalm 77 (Whole Chapter)
6. Psalm 119:15
   I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
   Psalm 119:14-16 (in Context) Psalm 119 (Whole Chapter)
7. Psalm 119:23
   Princes also did sit and speak against me: but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes.
   Psalm 119:22-24 (in Context) Psalm 119 (Whole Chapter)
8. Psalm 119:48
   My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will meditate in thy statutes.
   Psalm 119:47-49 (in Context) Psalm 119 (Whole Chapter)
9. Psalm 119:78
   Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.
   Psalm 119:77-79 (in Context) Psalm 119 (Whole Chapter)
10. Psalm 119:148
    Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.
    Psalm 119:147-149 (in Context) Psalm 119 (Whole Chapter)
11. Psalm 143:5
    I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.
    Psalm 143:4-6 (in Context) Psalm 143 (Whole Chapter)

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[dies-l]

About meditation, the more common practice is not about "emptying the mind." Rather, it is about being consciously and deliberately aware (mindful) of what one is thinking and feeling. I am curious as to how people feel about his form of meditation.

 

[DeaconDean]

About meditation, the more common practice is not about "emptying the mind." Rather, it is about being consciously and deliberately aware (mindful) of what one is thinking and feeling. I am curious as to how people feel about his form of meditation.

So let me get this straight, you don't think clearing the mind so you can meditate is OK, but straight out meditation is OK?

What if you have had a bad day at work or home?

People gripping, boss hasseling you, wife on you about something or other, kids fighting, etc., what do you do, ignore this and go straight to meditating?

When I was in seminary, one of the classes I took used the book: "Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life" by Donald S. Whitney.

And one of the processes the writter advocated was "meditation".

So how do you Meditate?

Step 1. Make sure you are in a relaxed position, either sitting on a chair or on the bed. It’s not a good idea to lie down - nine times out of ten you will fall asleep!
Step 2. Concentrate on your breathing. Take a deep breath in and slowly breathe out until your lungs are completely empty. (Practice this breathing technique until you feel comfortable enough to control your exhalation for 10 seconds)
Step 3. Make sure your shoulders are not tensed up and relax the rest of your body.
Step 4. Meditate on ONE thing that stood out for you when you were reading a particular verse or passage from the bible in your quiet time.
Step 5. Ask God to reveal meaning and interpretation of the passage.
You will find that there will be a process and link between meditation, prayer, praise and worship.
Benefits of Meditation

1. Meditating on one particular aspect leads to a progression of other acts of worship. Once the truth is touched upon, there is a sense of overwhelming desire to praise God for his goodness, wisdom and authority. It also allows you to think about how this aspect applies to your life.
2. Meditation thus provides a meaningful link between scripture reading and prayer.
3. Practicing meditation can provide healing and change in us (Whitney D.S, 1991).
4. It allows for ‘spiritual fruitfulness and prosperity in our day’ (Whitney D.S, 1991).
5. Benefits and promotes health
6. Disciplined meditation will enable you to understand God’s word and know how to respond accordingly.

Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[dies-l]

So let me get this straight, you don't think clearing the mind so you can meditate is OK, but straight out meditation is OK?

Personally, I don't see an inherent problem with either practice. I was merely adding to the question of the OP. Some meditation practitioners stress clearing the mind (this is sometimes associated with Hinduism, but is certainly not inherently Hindu), while many others stress mindfulness (which is sometimes associated with Buddhism, though it is certainly not inherently Buddhist). My question whether those who would object to the former would also object to the latter.

What if you have had a bad day at work or home?

People gripping, boss hasseling you, wife on you about something or other, kids fighting, etc., what do you do, ignore this and go straight to meditating?

When I was in seminary, one of the classes I took used the book: "Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life" by Donald S. Whitney.

And one of the processes the writter advocated was "meditation".



Source

God Bless

Till all are one.

I agree with you. Sometimes the first step in mindfulness involves relaxation, clearing out stress. I am just attempting to distinguish between forms of meditation where "clearing the mind" is the end goal vs. those where it may be a means to a different end (such as mindfulness, Scripture study, etc.).

 

[mont974x4]

biblical meditation and the mystic practice are different things. ONe empties the mind, the other fills it with things of God. It is not chnating to clear the mind, it is "chewing" on the Word. It is thinking about what we read in Scripture and praying for God to teach us His ways.


As DD points out the pagan practices are being taught in Bible colleges and seminaries. It was a key part of a couple of my classes and it is usuallt "christianized" by calling it "spiritual formation".


Pick up the Word and pray...yes, it is that simple. No magic incantations, no breathing exercises, no taking the pagan and whitewashing it to make us feel safe.

 

[dies-l]

How does one hear the "sheer silence" (or the "gentle whisper" or the "still small voice") of the voice of God unless one consciously quiets themselves and their thoughts? I don't see a biblical argument to be made that this type of practice is intrinsically bad.

 

[mont974x4]

Turn off the TV and go into your "prayer cloest". No one is against making quiet time for God. The point is whether or the active engagement of pagan practices are OK. The Bible clearly says they are not. Adding a a Christianese label does not sanctify a practice anymore than adding the label makes the music, movie, book, et al holy. If I sing Amazing Grace or recite the 23rd Psalm while beating my kids does that make it OK? Of course not. Does using the name of Jesus as a mantra while engaging in mystic practices make it non-pagan? Not a chance.

My suggestion? Pray. God promises to teach us and to continue to perfect us. Remind Him of those promises and thank Him for them and for His continued work. Pick up your Bible and read it while praying. Ask God to show you how what you read applies to you and ask Him to reveal what He has to teach you.

Avoid the pagan, embrace the clear biblical principles.

 

[dies-l]

What, in your opinion, makes something a "pagan practice"?

 

[OLDGUY]

My limited experience with yoga has been along side of many years of martial arts.
The yoga I added as a way to stretch and relax after workouts.
To imply that we cannot confront evil and maintain our christianity is to imply that we are all so weak and that our faith is untested. I do not feel that yoga has ever led me away from my God. I do not feel that I have ever done anything during the practice of the yoga excercises that have led me astray. The person that told me about yoga is a devout Catholic.

 

[mont974x4]

What, in your opinion, makes something a "pagan practice"?

My opinion does not matter. What matters is what the Bible says. What does God determine to be appropriate. How does He call us to draw near to Him?

 

[dies-l]

My opinion does not matter. What matters is what the Bible says. What does God determine to be appropriate. How does He call us to draw near to Him?

And, I have yet to encounter anything in Scripture to suggest that mindfulness meditation is inappropriate. You made a reference to "pagan practices". My question to you is how are you defining "pagan practices"? Is anything that pagans do considered a pagan practice? Does this refer to any activity that might be connected to the religious practices of pagans? Or does this specifically refer to the worship of pagan gods and idols?

 

[mont974x4]

If we are to be separate form the world and its false relgions why would we engage in their practices? This is the trap the OT Jews fell into. That is my point.

Of course, seeing your siggy quote from Rob Bell I now understand your where you are coming from. I have examined his writing Velvet Elvis. I suggest you proceed with caution. Comparing his theolgy to Scripture I have determined him to be a false teacher. Please be careful. I can provide a thorough review if you would be interested.

 

[OLDGUY]

If guns cause violence keyboards cause typos. Only the naive believe objects are capable of conscious acts.


Sorry about stealing your signature, but here is the point.
If yoga and excercise cause damnation then the Olyimpic Games are the antichrist.
Only those with untested faith are in danger from ungodly influence.

To compare me as a gentile to God's chosen people is unfair to both of us.

 

[mont974x4]

I am sorry you don't see the proper correlation. The followers of CHirst can learn a lot about God and proper worship from reading the OT. We do make the same mistakes as the OT Jews so often. Your icon is one of a Christian faith, a key tent of that faith is that we are God's chosen people. I have told you the truth and you reject it.

Put down Rob Bell's books and read the Bible. I pray you see the truth in its pages.

unsubscribing.

 

[dies-l]

I am sorry you don't see the proper correlation. The followers of CHirst can learn a lot about God and proper worship from reading the OT. We do make the same mistakes as the OT Jews so often. Your icon is one of a Christian faith, a key tent of that faith is that we are God's chosen people. I have told you the truth and you reject it.

Put down Rob Bell's books and read the Bible. I pray you see the truth in its pages.

unsubscribing.

I do read and study Scripture regularly. I always find it interesting when people assert that something is contrary to Scripture, but when asked to explain their position, they cannot or will not articulate a biblical teaching on the issue . When this happens, it seems that the response is to question the genuineness of the faith of anyone who disagrees. It is an interesting diversionary tactic, but it really accomplishes nothing. This is what I see going on here.

I respect your right to disagree with me, but where you cannot articulate a biblical reason for your disagreement, your opinion is only an opinion. It is not that you told me the truth; you told me your opinion, and I have chosen to continue to disagree, in part, because there is no biblical argument to be made that meditation is inappropriate.

"TEST ALL THINGS AGAINST SCRIPTURE" is a good phrase to live by. This is why I take the time to ask what Scripture actually teaches about an issue, rather than just accepting your opinion as "the Truth".

 

[gratefulgrace]

Turn off the TV and go into your "prayer cloest". No one is against making quiet time for God. The point is whether or the active engagement of pagan practices are OK. The Bible clearly says they are not. Adding a a Christianese label does not sanctify a practice anymore than adding the label makes the music, movie, book, et al holy. If I sing Amazing Grace or recite the 23rd Psalm while beating my kids does that make it OK? Of course not. Does using the name of Jesus as a mantra while engaging in mystic practices make it non-pagan? Not a chance.

My suggestion? Pray. God promises to teach us and to continue to perfect us. Remind Him of those promises and thank Him for them and for His continued work. Pick up your Bible and read it while praying. Ask God to show you how what you read applies to you and ask Him to reveal what He has to teach you.

Avoid the pagan, embrace the clear biblical principles.

QFT
As have said before the problem often lies in the different interpretations of the word meditate. I think you nailed the Biblical definition. It is chewing (as a cow chews its cud) on the truths of scripture. As far as quieting your mind that too in not emptying it in the hindu sense. The Psalms talke about stilling and quieting our soul so that we can hear the voice of God and commune with Him . Not so we can mindlessly chant a mantra. gg
Psa 119:15I will meditate on Your precepts, And contemplate Your ways.

Psa 77:12I will also meditate on all Your work, And talk of Your deeds.

Psa 145:5I will meditate on the glorious splendor of Your majesty, And on Your wondrous works.

 

[dies-l]

QFT
As have said before the problem often lies in the different interpretations of the word meditate. I think you nailed the Biblical definition. It is chewing (as a cow chews its cud) on the truths of scripture. As far as quieting your mind that too in not emptying it in the hindu sense. The Psalms talke about stilling and quieting our soul so that we can hear the voice of God and commune with Him . Not so we can mindlessly chant a mantra. gg
Psa 119:15I will meditate on Your precepts, And contemplate Your ways.

Psa 77:12I will also meditate on all Your work, And talk of Your deeds.

Psa 145:5I will meditate on the glorious splendor of Your majesty, And on Your wondrous works.

I have never heard of anyone meditating so that they can "mindlessly chant a mantra." Within both Judeo-Christian and Eastern Philosophy, there are differing ideas of what meditation is about. I understand that the Jewish concept of meditation is different from Eastern ideas. My question is whether it is intrinsically inappropriate for a Christian to engage in "meditation" practices that are intended to quiet the mind and increase mindfulness of our thoughts and feelings (which is essentially the idea of meditation taught within Buddhism and similar Eastern philosophical traditions). If you believe this practice is inappropriate, please explain using Scripture.