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How do you always manage to quote the very verses that negate what you're claiming? Revelation 20:4-6 tells us 3 things:Nowhere in the Bible is this pretentious and impossible theory said to happen.
The ONLY people raised when Jesus Returns, will be the martyrs killed during the 42 month time of world Satanic control. They will be raised back to mortality, as they may die again, Rev 20:4-6
Immortality cannot happen until the final, Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15
It lies in the way people choose to interpret scripture.How do you always manage to quote the very verses that negate what you're claiming? Revelation 20:4-6 tells us 3 things:
1. Those who were beheaded were seen alive (zao) again - and without fail that word zao always means alive in a body, wherever else it appears in the New Testament; and
2. This is the first resurrection; and
3. The second death will have no power over them.
Your Theories are unscriptural.Nowhere in the Bible is this pretentious and impossible theory said to happen.
The ONLY people raised when Jesus Returns, will be the martyrs killed during the 42 month time of world Satanic control. They will be raised back to mortality, as they may die again, Rev 20:4-6
Immortality cannot happen until the final, Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15
Your responses have no Biblical support.Your Theories are unscriptural.
I'm not concerned that it would concern you. Thanks, anyway.It would concern me that the above sounds like the kind of statement the Pharisees would have made to Jesus and later, to His apostles. But you weren't speaking to me. Just saying.
Why can't we figure it out now? Is it written for no reason or is it written with the expectation that His people can understand what is written with the help of the Holy Spirit?All will figure it out when it happens.
When did I say anything about God punishing anyone for being wrong about the day of the Lord? I didn't, of course.Why would God punish His redeemed for being wrong about the Day of the Lord?
You're a silly person who asks silly questions.Are amil going to have to sit in a corner for 1,000 years?
You are the only one who believes that. So, you are somehow the only person that God decided to reveal this to? Are you just that special?Will premills be upset that there will be no sinners in the Millennium?
Well, no kidding. Who likes to be wrong? No one, of course.People have heated disagreements because they don't like to be wrong.
LOL. You say some of the goofiest things I've ever seen. Hilarious.Scriptures don't fight back when they are interpreted wrong.
Nonsense. It says that very specifically right here:It lies in the way people choose to interpret scripture.
You want to have a general resurrection into immortality when Jesus Returns. Not what the Bible says at all.
Matthew 25:31-46 will occur when Christ returns with His angels. Jesus indicates that the sheep (representing the righteous/saved) will inherit eternal life (Matt 25:46) in the kingdom of God (Matt 25:34) at that point. How can mortal human beings inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God when Christ returns? That contradicts what Paul taught here:To add to your valid observations above, those that deny that God will allow some mortals to survive the GT and enter the millennium forget that the sheep and goat judgment (Matt 25) occurs at the beginning of the millennium. And it is human beings that are judged not immortals.
The great white throne judgment will not take place in either heaven or on earth. Why do you (apparently) think it will take place on earth? The following verse makes it quite clear that will not be the case.It appears to me that you maybe think He can only sit on the right hand of power in heaven, that He can't also still be doing that when He returns? I would think, whenever the great white throne judgment is meaning, it is not a judgment that is taking place in heaven since I don't see it making sense that the unsaved appear in heaven in order to be judged and sentenced from there. So, until the great white throne judgment is finished, the last enemy hasn't been destroyed yet., and that the great white throne judgment wouldn't be taking place in heaven. Keeping in mind that Christ will be the one sitting on the great white throne doing the judging and sentencing.
If only Premils understood that Abaddon/Apollyon, the angel who is the king of the locusts which symbolically represent fallen angels, is another name for the devil/Satan, they would be able to see that the dragon, Satan, will come out of the abyss at the fifth trumpet (Revelation 9:1-11).It's not a question of, do both entities come out of the abyss followed by their demise soon after, it's a question of, do both entities come out of the abyss at the same time or in the same era of time? Obviously, we all agree that the beast comes out of the abyss in this present earth age. But does satan also come out of the abyss during this same present earth age? If he does, this indicates there are obviously parallels between what you brought up. By parallels I'm basically meaning different accounts that are involving the same events.
So, you think he just deceived all those angels all at the same time? I highly doubt that. I would think he deceived maybe a few at first and then they helped him deceive some more and so on. Of course, we can only speculate on this, but I certainly don't think it makes any sense that he deceived them all by himself. I also disagree with your contention that the beast wasn't around back then. I think your understanding of the beast is flawed. John indicated that the beast "was" before he wrote the book of Revelation. So, the beast has clearly been around much longer than you seem willing to admit.Some might argue, if Premil is true and that the beast is in the LOF when satan is bound, who is it that satan uses to aid in deceiving the nations after the thousand years, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea? I might counter that with this. When satan initially fell, who was it that aided satan in deceiving other angels, the number whom also was as the sand of the sea, since the beast obviously wasn't around at that time? satan obviously initially did that all by himself, deceive countless angels in joining him in his rebellion. satan didn't need the beast back then, so why would he need the beast after the thousand years?
"Apollyon" is the Angel that becomes the Beast in the last days ..he previously appeared in the form of the Greek king in the past (Antiochus E), now is locked up in the Abbys until the last day when he will be revealed as the Beast or AntiChrist. See Daniel & RevelationIf only Premils understood that Abaddon/Apollyon, the angels who is the king of the locusts which symbolically represent fallen angels, is another name for the devil/Satan, they would be able to see that the dragon, Satan, will come out of the abyss at the fifth trumpet (Revelation 9:1-11).
Fallen angels have no other king besides Satan, which is why verses like Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 12:9 refer to all fallen angels as "his angels" (Satan's angels). So, Abaddon/Apollyon has to be another name for Satan. And the idea of him being known by other names should not be hard to grasp. We know he has other names such as Lucifer, Baal and Beelzebub. So, why not Abaddon/Apollyon as well?
His different names are refer to different attributes that he has. Lucifer means angel of light and we know he masquerades as an angel of light. Satan means "adversary" because He is the biggest enemy and adversary of God. The "devil" means "false accuser" or "slanderer", which we know describes him as well. When Jesus drove demons out of people the Pharisees said He did it through the power of the ruler of the demons, Beelzebub. Well, who does scripture says is the rule of the demons? Satan (Matt 25:41, Rev 12:9). Abaddon/Apollyon (one name is Hebrew and one Greek) means "destroyer" and that certainly describes an attribute of Satan as well.
So, you think he just deceived all those angels all at the same time? I highly doubt that. I would think he deceived maybe a few at first and then they helped him deceive some more and so on. Of course, we can only speculate on this, but I certainly don't think it makes any sense that he deceived them all by himself. I also disagree with your contention that the beast wasn't around back then. I think your understanding of the beast is flawed. John indicated that the beast "was" before he wrote the book of Revelation. So, the beast has clearly been around much longer than you seem willing to admit.
If satan can lead a rebellion of a number of people "as the sand of the sea" all by himself with no help, then explain to me why he would ever need the beast's help? What do you make of Revelation 13 then? You apparently believe that what it describes the beast doing, using the dragon's power, in Revelation 13 is something that Satan could do by himself. So, the question you need to answer is why would the dragon, Satan, ever give his power to the beast (as described in Revelation 13) if he doesn't need the beast's help to do his bidding?
I don't see where Daniel or Revelation teach this. So, why don't you tell me exactly where you think Daniel & Revelation teach this and we can discuss it."Apollyon" is the Angel that becomes the Beast in the last days ..he previously appeared in the form of the Greek king in the past (Antiochus E), now is locked up in the Abbys until the last day when he will be revealed as the Beast or AntiChrist. See Daniel & Revelation
Hi, here is why "Apollyon" or Angel of the Abbys Rev 9 is not satan:I don't see where Daniel or Revelation teach this. So, why don't you tell me exactly where you think Daniel & Revelation teach this and we can discuss it.
What is your understanding of the locusts that are in the abyss, as described in Revelation 9? I believe they symbolically represent the fallen angels. It says they have the angel of the abyss, Apollyon, as their king, so it makes sense that fallen angels would have him as their king rather than literal locusts. Agree? If so, then do you understand that scripture indicates that Satan is the king of the fallen angels? That is why they are called "his angels" in verses like Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 12:9. The fallen angels have no other king but Satan, so that means Apollyon must be another name for Satan. Just like Lucifer and Beelzebub are other names for Satan.
If only Premils understood that Abaddon/Apollyon, the angel who is the king of the locusts which symbolically represent fallen angels, is another name for the devil/Satan, they would be able to see that the dragon, Satan, will come out of the abyss at the fifth trumpet (Revelation 9:1-11).
Fallen angels have no other king besides Satan, which is why verses like Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 12:9 refer to all fallen angels as "his angels" (Satan's angels). So, Abaddon/Apollyon has to be another name for Satan. And the idea of him being known by other names should not be hard to grasp. We know he has other names such as Lucifer, Baal and Beelzebub. So, why not Abaddon/Apollyon as well?
So, you think he just deceived all those angels all at the same time? I highly doubt that. I would think he deceived maybe a few at first and then they helped him deceive some more and so on. Of course, we can only speculate on this, but I certainly don't think it makes any sense that he deceived them all by himself. I also disagree with your contention that the beast wasn't around back then. I think your understanding of the beast is flawed. John indicated that the beast "was" before he wrote the book of Revelation. So, the beast has clearly been around much longer than you seem willing to admit.
If those judged in Matt 25 are not flesh, and you agree the judgment occurs at the onset of the millennial kingdom, you are effectively arguing that there are 2 judgments of the wicked: one at the beginning of the millennium and another, the GWTJ at the end of it. Please clarify this for me.Matthew 25:31-46 will occur when Christ returns with His angels. Jesus indicates that the sheep (representing the righteous/saved) will inherit eternal life (Matt 25:46) in the kingdom of God (Matt 25:34) at that point. How can mortal human beings inherit eternal life in the kingdom of God when Christ returns? That contradicts what Paul taught here:
1 Corinthians 15: I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory
After his defeat at Armageddon, the beast + False Prophet get thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone (Rev 19:20), and are no longer on the scene. Rev 20:7-9 deals with the aftermath of Satan's release from prison when he gathers those born during the millennium that has not given their lives to Jesus to surround the holy city. And God sent fire to devour them.I can accept what you proposed, since that sounds reasonable to me. That aside then.
If the beast is still around after the thousand years, thus Premil is not true, who is it in Revelation 20:7-9 that are supposed to be meaning the beast and false prophet?
I agree. God's two witnesses in Egypt were Moses and Aaron:Let's start from this angle.
Mark 3:24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
Luke 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Next let's look at this in Revelation 9.
Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
And to them(these locusts that come out of the pit) it was given that they should not kill them(men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads), but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Next let's factor in the following.
Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
How does--tormenting men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads--equal---to make war with the saints, and to overcome them?
Why would satan be attacking his own people and tormenting them? Would that not be an example of satan being divided against himself? How does it benefit satan and his kingdom to have men tormented which have not the seal of God in their foreheads? That accomplishes exactly what for satan and his kingdom?
Clearly, IMO anyway, what the locusts are being commanded to do and to not do, God is behind the reason why, not satan.
Since Revelation 9 is using imagery involving locusts, locusts fall under the category of plagues if involving swarms.
Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will---which could mean that it is the 2Ws that are commanding the locusts to do what they are to do, torment men which have not the seal of God in their forehead. Right or wrong, at least it sounds more plausible than satan commanding the locusts to do things not beneficial to him. I'm not implying this makes the 2Ws the king over the pit, though.
Plus, nowhere in Revelation 9 does it ever state that the king of the pit is in the pit when the locusts are, and that when the locusts emerge from the pit, so does the king of the pit.
How does it make good sense that if satan is the king of the pit, the same pit he is the king of, it manages to imprison him? That would be like saying the warden of a prison, the prison manages to imprison him in the same manner other prisoners are imprisoned there.
I agree. God's two witnesses in Egypt were Moses and Aaron:
Exodus 4
4 For if you refuse to let My people go, behold, tomorrow I will bring the locusts into your coast.
12 And the LORD said to Moses, Stretch out your hand over the land of Egypt for the locusts, that they may come up upon the land of Egypt and eat every herb of the land, all that the hail has left.
13 And Moses stretched forth his rod over the land of Egypt, and the LORD brought an east wind upon the land all that day and all the night. When it was morning, the east wind brought the locusts.
14 And the locusts went up over all the land of Egypt and rested in all the coasts of Egypt, very numerous. Before them there were no such locusts as they, neither after them shall be such.
15 For they covered the face of the whole earth so that the land was darkened..
.. "And the sun and air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. And out of the smoke came forth locusts onto the earth. And authority was given to them, as the scorpions of the earth have authority. Rev 9:2-3
15 ..And they ate every herb of the land and all the fruit of the trees which the hail had left. And there did not remain any green thing in the trees, or in the herbs of the field, through all the land of Egypt.
.. "And they were commanded not to hurt the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads." Rev 9:4.
16 Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron in haste. And he said, I have sinned against the LORD your God, and against you.
17 And now please, forgive my sin only this once, and pray to the LORD your God, that He may take away from me this death only.
.. And the rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and golden, and silver, and bronze, and stone, and wooden idols (which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk). And they did not repent of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. Rev 9:20-21,
It's quite obvious who is bringing the locust plagues upon the people, and it's not the one who is their king.
You're the one who confesses a person can know now.You are the only one who believes that. So, you are somehow the only person that God decided to reveal this to? Are you just that special?
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