Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[Strong in Him]

Pretty good passage in 1 Corin 11 that points out exactly why many believers are sick, weak, and die young.

1 Corinthians 11:28-30 KJV
28. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

I believe that, if you look at that in context, the body of Christ which is not being discerned was other believers.
1 Corinthians 11:18 says "when you come together as church there are divisions among you" - the same thing that he criticised them for in chapters 1 and 3 of his letter.
He explains, "when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers" - as a result of which, one person went hungry, while another got drunk, 1 Corinthians 11:21. He asks "Do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing?", 1 Corinthians 11:12. And asks, "shall I praise you in this matter? Certainly not."
Paul was not pleased when he heard about this celebration of the Lord's supper - in fact, he said that they couldn't even claim that it WAS the Lord's Supper that they were eating, 1 Corinthians 11:20. In v 27 he continues, "whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup in an unworthy manner" - which they had been doing.

The Lord's Supper is a communal meal; to be eaten in fellowship with other Christians.
There were to be no divisions, no one thinking they were greater than anyone else, believing they were entitled to more food, or drinking so much wine that a) they got drunk, and b) that they denied other Christians.

This "worthiness" has nothing to do with sin. It has to do with understanding why the body of Jesus was beaten, bruised, and hanged on a tree.

I don't believe it does - see above.

People who fail to "discern the Lord's body," that is, understand that Jesus suffered in his body for our sickness, weakness, and untimely death, may experience those very things.

Jesus did not, ever, say that his blood was being shed for people's sickness. Nor that he had come to give his life so that believers might be healthy. He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29; not sickness or headaches.

There are plenty of Christians who do not believe, or claim, that Jesus died for sickness who are not sick at all.
I was once - and I was told, on these forums, that I would not be healed for that reason. God healed me anyway.

So it is possible to endure sickness, weakness, and untimely death if we are either ignorant or deny His body.

You would have thought that if someone did something as serious as "denying his body", sickness would be inevitable, as a punishment or consequence. not that it would be just a "possibility".

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I wonder if the reason we dont see frequent healings and/or even miracles is we have lost true touch with the Spirit.

I dont mean this as a knock on anyone but rather an observation. And to clarify I am talking about true healing, not fake nonsense that charlatans perform to fool the masses.

Jesus and the Apostles operated under the full sway of the Spirit. Well Jesus did for sure. I always speak of the man in Acts 3. Jesus would have undoubtedly walked by him many times but never healed him, why? Because it wasnt the right time. The man in John 5 was lame for 38 years, yet it was always the Fathers will to heal him. Just wasnt the right time. The blind man had been born blind, yet Jesus didnt heal him until a certain time. Lazarus was sick and died. Jesus could have prevented that death, Jesus could have called him forth before he began to decay but that wasnt the Fathers plan.

So I wonder if we get so caught up on healing is (as one person put it) "on demand" that we forget the other very important part of that equation, working within the will (which includes the timing) of the Father.

Divine healing is connected with the preaching of the Gospel to the unconverted. This was a major component in the signs and wonders that the disciples prayed for after they encountered severe persecution from the Jewish leaders. They prayed for boldness to preach the Gospel and that signs and wonders will be performed in the name of Jesus of Nazareth. The room was shaken and they were all filled with the Spirit, and that was the beginning of the bold preaching of the Gospel with signs following. The result, including that of Paul's ministry to the Gentiles, was that multitudes of Gentile pagans turned to Christ, While the emphasis was on preaching of the Gospel, the signs and wonders continued.

But as the church changed direction and became inward looking, and the preaching of the Gospel became less important than the development of personal spirituality, the signs and wonders declined. What put the kybosh on what was left of the supernatural signs and wonders, including the gifts of the Spirit was the takeover by the bishops resulting in the sidelining of congregational ministry. The bishops' authority replaced the exercise of prophecy from the rank and file, and the four fold ministry by the church elders was replaced by a trained clergy, making the rank and file a passive group of spectators of the performance at the front.

What we have today is still largely unchanged. Many areas of the church are run by bishops, moderators, cardinals, clergy, and pastors. There is still the division of clergy and laity in most churches, quite contrary to the New Testament. Even the minister/pastor of Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Charismatic churches still retain the pastoral (clergy) and the rank and file (laity). Control what is said and done in churches is still in the hands of the person at the front, and the rank and file have to be content for what is served up to them. The churches pretend that the Holy Spirit is involved, but in reality, He is nowhere near. Man controls everything.

This is why signs and wonders are rare, in spite of all the teaching, motivational speeches, promises, and quotes of Scripture. The fact is, that in our current system, regardless of denomination, there is no lead in the pencil.

This means that ordinary Christian believers are being short changed and have to accept something that falls far short of what the Scripture teaches. Gospel preaching involving Christ and Him crucified largely absent from the ministry and preaching of most churches, and this is very true of Charismatic and Pentecostal churches that give a lot of teaching about the Holy Spirit and the gifts, but put the finished work of Christ on the back burner.

But there are some churches that make the Gospel the main focus, and that is commendable, but they still have the man-made structure of one man pastors, programmed services, and division of pastoral and laity, Where we would have more hope of seeing the Holy Spirit active would be in the homegroups which don't have someone calling the shots, but everyone is taking part with their gifting, with one person just ensuring that everything is done decently and in order.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Being under Covenant doesn't guarantee no sickness.

Even while Jesus was active in His earthly ministry, people got sick and died, and He didn't heal everyone. There was a time when there was a great crowd of sick and disabled people who had travelled a distance to receive His ministry. Jesus had already disappeared to a lonely place to pray, and when He returned, He got the disciples together and said, "Let's go." And He left the crowd and went to another place. This showed that healing was not His primary focus. It was going to places where He could preach the good news of the kingdom.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

But there are some churches that make the Gospel the main focus, and that is commendable, but they still have the man-made structure of one man pastors, programmed services, and division of pastoral and laity, Where we would have more hope of seeing the Holy Spirit active would be in the homegroups which don't have someone calling the shots, but everyone is taking part with their gifting, with one person just ensuring that everything is done decently and in order.

100% western church structure limits greatly what the Spirit can do. There's no freedom to do much of anything. You have 15-20 of song, a 30-40 minute message and it's time for lunch.

A more proper gathering I think would be believers coming together with no expectations at all but to serve one another and spend time in prayer. Perhaps someone, maybe an elder, has a teaching to offer the group from scripture, buts not the only focus of the meeting. A gathering where the Spirit has freedom to use each and every part of the body to minister to the rest, without the constraints of time or structure.

People who come together frequently with the attitude of let's just see what the Lord will do. The book of Acts makes it plain that those believers met like that.

Nowadays, people get mad and irritated when the service goes longer than the allotted time because there's football to watch, or fill in the blank with a person's random Sunday fun time activity.

 

[Pioneer3mm]

You have 15-20 of song, a 30-40 minute message and it's time for lunch.

I remember..the service/meeting..
- years ago.
---
It started with singing a few songs..
- some people started kneeling, praying..
- praying for those who need healing & restoration (spiritual & physical)
---
It lasted..90 minutes..
- no message/sermon.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I remember..the service/meeting..
- years ago.
---
It started with singing a few songs..
- some people started kneeling, praying..
- praying for those who need healing & restoration (spiritual & physical)
---
It lasted..90 minutes..
- no message/sermon.

I attended an Assemblies of God church 10-15 years ago where every once in a while, the congregation would get so whipped into a frenzy during the song service that the preacher just wouldn't preach. I thought it was so cool when I first saw it.

A little bit went by and I joined the ministry team of that specific church, and one day before the service, this Pastor called me into his office and told me he didn't feel like preaching that day so he was going to tell the worship team to play extended then pray for people. Well the service that day was a "let's whip into frenzy through song" type day. Never again saw that the same way.

Not saying that every time stuff like that happens it's because the preacher doesn't want to bring the word and is manipulating the service, but it's just sad.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

100% western church structure limits greatly what the Spirit can do. There's no freedom to do much of anything. You have 15-20 of song, a 30-40 minute message and it's time for lunch.

A more proper gathering I think would be believers coming together with no expectations at all but to serve one another and spend time in prayer. Perhaps someone, maybe an elder, has a teaching to offer the group from scripture, buts not the only focus of the meeting. A gathering where the Spirit has freedom to use each and every part of the body to minister to the rest, without the constraints of time or structure.

People who come together frequently with the attitude of let's just see what the Lord will do. The book of Acts makes it plain that those believers met like that.

Nowadays, people get mad and irritated when the service goes longer than the allotted time because there's football to watch, or fill in the blank with a person's random Sunday fun time activity.

Actually the mid-week homegroup meeting is closer to what the church should be. Usually starts with a pot luck meal, no time limit, and everyone gets an opportunity to participate (1 Corinthians 14:26). There is no programmed order of service, and no one person running the group, except the host to ensure that everything is done decently and in order. If the pastor or minister attends, he is just one member of the group and not the "chairman". The problem arises when a pastor or a "homegroup leader" is in charge of a homegroup and controls what is said and done because he thinks he has "authority" over the others. Then that group ceases to be a real church and just becomes a "mini" Sunday service.

 

[jiminpa]

The thing about doubt is all you need is one.
If you give people a reason to think God might not want them healed, they will almost always run with it. It is just human nature. They will say, "Yeah, I guess that is my situation; that is me. Oh well."
If you suggest that God uses sickness to enhance our spirituality, they will look at themselves and say, "Yeah, I am not as spiritual as I could be, so God must be doing this to me for a spiritual reason." And who is as spiritual as they "could be?"
People who are in the extreme mindset that "God is in control of everything" will reason that since He is in control of everything, then it must be His will for me to be sick, else they would not be sick. Until this stronghold is removed from their reasoning, they will rarely get healed or even get their prayers answered.
So people are very vulnerable to these kinds of reasonings. It is almost inevitable that people who hold to this logic will not get healed or ever have faith to be healed. Despite the plethora of evidence of God's will and provision for healing, they will be snared by that one doubt. But the Word will free us from our faulty logic and the devil's lies. So as you said in the OP, "forget not his benefits, who forgives all your iniquities, who heals all your diseases."

So very true.

The cessationist, soft cessationist and psuedo-charismatic/Pentecostal's argument is that because it isn't happening anymore God isn't doing it anymore, (experience over scripture), creating the very environment that disallows healing and other gifts, many of them intentionally. Johnny Mac, (as one example), makes a lot of money with his biblical misinformation and leading people away from God in the name of bible teaching. Make no mistake, there is money to be had teaching cessation. But if you teach bible, you may have to show some results, so you better actually believe what you are saying, so it's not as easy for an unbeliever to teach. Sure things can faked with theatrics, but it's much easier to just teach unbelief.

 

[jiminpa]

The very people who hypocritically accuse charismatics/pentecostals of relying on experience can only argue their own case with experience as evidence to the exclusion of scripture. I wonder how many are fully aware of what they are doing.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus did not, ever, say that his blood was being shed for people's sickness. Nor that he had come to give his life so that believers might be healthy. He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29; not sickness or headaches.

Is 53
3 He was despised and abandoned by men,
A man of great pain and familiar with sickness;
And like one from whom people hide their faces,
He was despised, and we had no regard for Him.
4 However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore,
And our pains that He carried;
Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted,
Struck down by God, and humiliated.
5 But He was pierced for our offenses,
He was crushed for our wrongdoings;
The punishment for our well-being was laid upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
6 All of us, like sheep, have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the wrongdoing of us all
To fall on Him.

 

[Guojing]

Jesus did not, ever, say that his blood was being shed for people's sickness. Nor that he had come to give his life so that believers might be healthy. He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, John 1:29; not sickness or headaches.

You will appreciate this article here https://medium.com/@andreaswiget/physical-healing-in-the-atonement-my-response-cd9316a2de7

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Is 53
3 He was despised and abandoned by men,
A man of great pain and familiar with sickness;
And like one from whom people hide their faces,
He was despised, and we had no regard for Him.
4 However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore,
And our pains that He carried;
Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted,
Struck down by God, and humiliated.
5 But He was pierced for our offenses,
He was crushed for our wrongdoings;
The punishment for our well-being was laid upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
6 All of us, like sheep, have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the wrongdoing of us all
To fall on Him.

Jesus quoted it that way in Matthew to show the fulfilment of His healing of the sick. It was a sign involving Him, that Isaiah was talking about Him. He had far more comprehensive healing during His ministry because He is God and man. Although He laid aside His Divinity and became as a servant, He never gave it up. He didn't stop being God, even as a baby in Mary's arms. People still got sick and died while Jesus was on earth, and people still continue to get sick and die after He sent the Holy Spirit.

The only ones who had the gift of healing were selected church elders (James said that), and that the sick person called on the elders for prayer, not the elders solicited for sick people for ministry. There were no healing lines in the early house-based church. Public healing is a sign to show that Jesus Christ has risen and is alive today. The purpose is to draw people to Christ so that they will listen to the Gospel, realise that they are sinners, and see the need to flee from the wrath to come and repent.

The fact that true believers in Christ get sick and die, shows that the final fulfillment of Isaiah 53 - healing as part of the Atonement - is still in the future. IE: Promised, but not yet. This is why the prominent healing evangelists can't heal anyone. But the day will come when we are all resurrected to glory, and sickness/disability will be left in the grave.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Is 53
3 He was despised and abandoned by men,
A man of great pain and familiar with sickness;
And like one from whom people hide their faces,
He was despised, and we had no regard for Him.
4 However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore,
And our pains that He carried;
Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted,
Struck down by God, and humiliated.
5 But He was pierced for our offenses,
He was crushed for our wrongdoings;
The punishment for our well-being was laid upon Him,
And by His wounds we are healed.
6 All of us, like sheep, have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the Lord has caused the wrongdoing of us all
To fall on Him.

The wonderful thing about Peter's quotation of verse 5 is the tense:

Isaiah said, "By his wounds we ARE healed."
Peter said, "By his wounds we WERE healed."

This refutes, without question, the bogus argument that this healing is a promise for the future. WERE is past tense.
Healing indeed is included in the atonement. It is no longer something that maybe is or maybe not.
Jesus paid the price for our healing when He took the stripes, the wounds, and hanging on the tree.

Isaiah was standing prophetically at the foot of the cross, viewing Jesus with terrible wounds. He points at Jesus and says to all those around the cross, "Look, by His wounds we ARE healed."

Peter looking back at the cross, wrote to the believers of that day "Look, by His stripes we WERE healed."


Healing is for every believer since the cross. Let us not refute this truth for our own and our loved one's healing!

1 Peter 2:24
(ASV) who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.
(ISV) "He himself bore our sins" in his body on the tree, so that we might die to those sins and live righteously. "By his wounds you have been healed."
(KJV) Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(KJV+) WhoG3739 his own selfG848 bareG399 ourG2257 sinsG266 inG1722 his ownG848 bodyG4983 onG1909 theG3588 tree,G3586 thatG2443 we, being deadG581 to sins,G266 should liveG2198 unto righteousness:G1343 by whoseG3739 stripesG3468 ye were healed.G2390
(LEB) who himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we may die to sins and live to righteousness, by whose wounds you were healed.
(LITV) who "Himself carried up in His body our sins" onto the tree; that dying to sins, we might live to righteousness, of whom "by His wound you were healed."
(LSV) who Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, that having died to sins, we may live to righteousness; by whose stripes you were healed,
(NENT) who himself carried our *sins in his *body up to the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose bruise ye were healed.
(NET) He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we may cease from sinning and live for righteousness. By his wounds you were healed.
(RV) who his own self bare our sins in his body upon the tree, that we, having died unto sins, might live unto righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.
(Webster) Who himself bore our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live to righteousness; by whose stripes ye were healed.
(Weymouth) The burden of our sins He Himself carried in His own body to the Cross and bore it there, so that we, having died so far as our sins are concerned, may live righteous lives. By His wounds yours have been healed.
(Williams) He bore our sins in His own body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to uprightness. By His wounds you have been healed,
(YLT) who our sins himself did bear in his body, upon the tree, that to the sins having died, to the righteousness we may live; by whose stripes ye were healed,



Amen.

 

[Strong in Him]

Is 53
3 He was despised and abandoned by men,
A man of great pain and familiar with sickness;
And like one from whom people hide their faces,
He was despised, and we had no regard for Him.
4 However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore,
And our pains that He carried;

JESUS did not say that his blood was being shed for people's sickness - that he was dying in agony so that no Christian would ever become ill.

If that had been the case, no Christian since would have died from cancer, covid etc etc.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

JESUS did not say that his blood was being shed for people's sickness - that he was dying in agony so that no Christian would ever become ill.

If that had been the case, no Christian since would have died from cancer, covid etc etc.

A short review shows that it is/was the body of the Lord that endured suffering for our sickness, weakness, and early death.
Believers who fail to discern the Lord's body may fall into sickness, weakness, and early death because they do not believe the Word of God, and the judgment falls on them that would not if they had discerned His body. To discern His body means to understand why the body of the Lord endured the stripes and suffering of the cross. Once we understand that "by His stripes we were healed, then we have discerned His body and will believe and receive that redemption.
1 Corinthians 11:29-30 KJV
29. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

We must not deny the body of the Lord by refusing to discern why He endured this suffering. We would never deny His blood, why would we deny His Body?

In Hebrews Paul talks about those to counted the blood of the Lord as a common thing.
Hebrews 10:29-30 KJV
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The same meaning applies to His body. We cannot deny His body any more than we can deny His blood. Doing so will bring the original judgment down on us. As Paul said the same thing about denying, or failing to discern the body.

1 Corinthians 11:29-32 KJV
29. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

I plead that we not deny His body or his blood. The chastisement is hard on those who know better but trod the body under foot like it too was a common thing.

 

[Strong in Him]

A short review shows that it is/was the body of the Lord that endured suffering for our sickness, weakness, and early death.

Jesus did not die to make us healthy, he died to reconcile us to God so that we might have forgiveness and eternal life.
Full stop.
It was not our illnesses that separated us from God. Adam and Eve were not driven from the garden because they became ill - the Israelites were not commanded to offer sacrifices because they had headaches, the plague or covid. Sacrifices were commanded for sin and guilt.

Believers who fail to discern the Lord's body may fall into sickness, weakness, and early death because they do not believe the Word of God,

That's not what Paul said.

To discern His body means to understand why the body of the Lord endured the stripes and suffering of the cross.

That's not what Paul said.
He was talking about the disgraceful practice of eating and drinking at the Lord's Supper, before others arrived or had a chance to eat and drink. He said they should eat at home if they were hungry - which suggests to me that it was the practice of eating together as a fellowship, or body, that was important, NOT trying to satisfy your appetite.

Once we understand that "by His stripes we were healed, then we have discerned His body and will believe and receive that redemption.
1 Corinthians 11:29-30 KJV

Except that some don't believe that at all and either never become ill, or become ill but get healed by God anyway.

30. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

And it could be that some were weak and sickly Christians because they refused to discern the body - the fellowship/congregation - and tried to be Christians on their own; their own theology, own gifts, own strength etc. Immediately after this Paul gives a whole chapter on what it means to be part of the body of Christ - all members are important and have a part to play.

We must not deny the body of the Lord by refusing to discern why He endured this suffering.

I'm not - he suffered and died to reconcile us to God. He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, John 1:29, the One who came to give his life as a ransom for many, Mark 10:45, the Good Shepherd who lay down his life for the sheep, John 10:11, the One who was pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities, Isaiah 53:5.

In Hebrews Paul talks about those to counted the blood of the Lord as a common thing.
Hebrews 10:29-30 KJV
29. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30. For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

No, whoever wrote Hebrews was talking to Jewish Christians who had declared Jesus to be the Messiah, believed that he died for them and had received eternal life. Who were being tempted to renounce all that, go back to the Jewish synagogues in order to escape suffering as Christians and then planned to repent again and become Christians again, once the threat of persecution was over.

No where do they say "and if you don't believe that Christ died for healing for your headaches, you are dishonouring him."

I plead that we not deny His body or his blood. The chastisement is hard on those who know better but trod the body under foot like it too was a common thing.

I'm not.
I don't agree with your interpretation and statements; that is not at all the same as saying that I do not recognise, or honour, Jesus.

 

[jiminpa]

Jesus did not die to make us healthy, he died to reconcile us to God so that we might have forgiveness and eternal life.
Full stop.
It was not our illnesses that separated us from God. Adam and Eve were not driven from the garden because they became ill - the Israelites were not commanded to offer sacrifices because they had headaches, the plague or covid. Sacrifices were commanded for sin and guilt.

That's not what Paul said.


That's not what Paul said.
He was talking about the disgraceful practice of eating and drinking at the Lord's Supper, before others arrived or had a chance to eat and drink. He said they should eat at home if they were hungry - which suggests to me that it was the practice of eating together as a fellowship, or body, that was important, NOT trying to satisfy your appetite.


Except that some don't believe that at all and either never become ill, or become ill but get healed by God anyway.

And it could be that some were weak and sickly Christians because they refused to discern the body - the fellowship/congregation - and tried to be Christians on their own; their own theology, own gifts, own strength etc. Immediately after this Paul gives a whole chapter on what it means to be part of the body of Christ - all members are important and have a part to play.


I'm not - he suffered and died to reconcile us to God. He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, John 1:29, the One who came to give his life as a ransom for many, Mark 10:45, the Good Shepherd who lay down his life for the sheep, John 10:11, the One who was pierced for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities, Isaiah 53:5.

No, whoever wrote Hebrews was talking to Jewish Christians who had declared Jesus to be the Messiah, believed that he died for them and had received eternal life. Who were being tempted to renounce all that, go back to the Jewish synagogues in order to escape suffering as Christians and then planned to repent again and become Christians again, once the threat of persecution was over.

No where do they say "and if you don't believe that Christ died for healing for your headaches, you are dishonouring him."

I'm not.
I don't agree with your interpretation and statements; that is not at all the same as saying that I do not recognise, or honour, Jesus.

I'm sorry, so very sorry, but this is exactly why believers are sick. Our unbelief is not only fostered, but demanded by people claiming to be believers, while arguing against the Bible. Jesus couldn't do any miracles in his own home town because of unbelief. He can't do any in current Christianity for the same reason. Meanwhile the world goes to Hell, in part because we refuse to believe.

The Holy Spirit more than reminded me of something that happened in my own life a long time ago, and impressed on me His longing to find people who would allow Him to do the impossible. I'm still mired in my own unbelief, but I want out of it. I think that we are going to need to fully believe soon, or die miserably, (at least the first death). I hope I'm wrong about that.
I'm sorry, but I'm losing patience for religious unbelief. (including my own), It's straight from the devil and it's killing people.

 

[jiminpa]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God! Not by the word of John Calvin, or John MacArthur, or The Southern Baptist Convention, or any other man or woman falsely claiming to teach the Word, but really just peddling unbelief.

 

[Carl Emerson]

JESUS did not say that his blood was being shed for people's sickness - that he was dying in agony so that no Christian would ever become ill.

If that had been the case, no Christian since would have died from cancer, covid etc etc.

Exactly the same as sin...

Do you still sin ???

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm sorry, so very sorry, but this is exactly why believers are sick.

You mean that Christians may become, or remain, ill because they/we don't believe that Jesus died to make us healthy?
I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

That's exactly what I was told several years ago, before W.O.F.ers had their separate forum - "you won't be healed of M.E. because you don't believe (our doctrine)"
Well I guess God didn't read those posts, because he healed me - and I still don't believe it.

Jesus couldn't do any miracles in his own home town because of unbelief. He can't do any in current Christianity for the same reason.

And yet sometimes Jesus healed people without asking about their faith at all.
In Mark 9, a man said to Jesus "IF you can do anything ...........". Yes, he said "I believe" but also said "help me in my unbelief." In John 5 Jesus said to the man at the pool, "do you want to be well?" The man didn't even answer but repeated a superstition that he could not get into the pool when the angel stirred the waters. Jairus's daughter didn't show any faith, nor did Lazarus.

Meanwhile the world goes to Hell, in part because we refuse to believe.

No, I think the world goes to hell for many reasons, including:
Christians preaching sin and judgement but not God's amazing love.
Christians preaching, but then putting conditions onto people - just come to church with us/give up that hobby, sin or whatever.
Non Christians confusing the church with God, and seeing only judgement, pre-conceived ides, denominations arguing with each other, Christians/clergy behaving badly, the church getting all het up about minor issues such as wearing robes/mitres while poorer people can't feed their families or Christians/clergy getting involves in politics/preaching against having lots of money - while owning land and having lots of money.

The Holy Spirit more than reminded me of something that happened in my own life a long time ago, and impressed on me His longing to find people who would allow Him to do the impossible. I'm still mired in my own unbelief, but I want out of it. I think that we are going to need to fully believe soon, or die miserably,

Fully believe what?
That Jesus is God? Tick.
That Jesus died for our sins and is Lord and Saviour? Tick.
That Jesus was raised from the dead, ascended and sent his Holy Spirit to live in us? Tick.
That Jesus will return one day? Tick.
That all things are possible for God? Tick.
That when God calls, he equips for service? Tick.

I believe that when we come to God, say that we want to do his will and for him to do his will in us, dedicate ourselves to him and declare him to be LORD in our lives - he hears that, and is very capable of doing the impossible.
Sometimes he does it even if we don't ask him.

I'm sorry, but I'm losing patience for religious unbelief.

"Religious unbelief" means, what, exactly?
Losing belief in religion? Guilty - and may I always be guilty of being sceptical of man made doctrines and traditions.
Or losing belief in the God who calls us to step out of the boat and walk on water? Not a chance.