Are there different definitions of the "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

[JacksBratt]

This is what they have repeatedly said on this and other forums.

If you have a different osas thinking , like one other recently here, GOOD !

If you have read my entire post, you would understand my view...

Saying that you don't have free will after salvation is like saying you can lose your salvation.

Both are, imo, incorrect.

We always have free will. We don't become robotic after salvation.... ugh.

Any person who realizes who Christ is, accepts Him as their savior and asks Him for the free gift of eternal life, from the depths of their heart.... is His child forever.

No matter what any mere man or woman decide to accuse this person of or what actions this person takes in the walking on this earth and their behavior in responses to their joy, sorrow, trials and failures that they endure..... They are Christ's child.

They may enter heaven with just one foot in the door, but God is the Judge, Jesus is the one who pardons us... not you or any other human who believes they know......

This idea of asking for salvation over and over throughout your life... lies of Satan.

Born once.... die twice
Born twice... die once.

 

[JacksBratt]

It seems you are arguing with Jeff as if he, himself, believes in osas. How funny.

I'm not sure that I saw anything in his post, that I quoted and responded to, that would convince me that he followed the view of OSAS.

 

[JacksBratt]

Just a little twist.

In this verse, it sounds like you can save yourself....... and your family.

Acts 16:31King James Version (KJV)

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Interesting you should bring up the will of the Father.

John 6:38-40 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”​

Jesus says the will of the Father is that He loses nothing the Father gives to Him, including us. So, if He loses us, He's not doing the will of the Father. It also says the will of the Father is that everyone who believes in Him should have eternal life.

And Luther was right, there is no sin that can separate us. We've become a new creature, and there is no reverse creation process.

And as far as grace covering all my sins, scripture teaches that all our sins were atoned for at the time of the cross (Col 2:14), not at the time we are born again. We are reconciled to God when we are born again, but all our sin acts were already paid for. There is no bill to be paid going forward.

If you believe it is the will of the Father to sin, then good luck with that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Saying that you don't have free will after salvation is like saying you can lose your salvation.

If only you stopped here......

 

[LostMarbels]

Without respect, in the sense that Yahweh is no respecter of persons,

Honestly, most feel I am a judgmental, arrogant son of a gun for just that reason. I do have a lot of compassion and concern for those I speak with if they'd care to hear it tho.

you have posted well in line with God's Word. I was aware of the differences in what you have posted, and what most all others say about osas,
but I didn't know the differences until you posted them. i.e. GOOD that you did, as you are not in the same class as those who differ from Scripture in their lives and doctrines and teachings. Thank you or even more THANK GOD for you as you serve Him, and for your testimony !

I am also completely unaware of the differences it appears. I am almost completely 'self' taught. I do not regard most churches as legitimate, so I do not adhere to what most christian profess. I have relied on just the four of us, and the bible for decades now. I do fellowship, and I do discuss the bible regularly. I just am not so much a part of mainstream christianity. I might not know what you do so enlighten me.

What exactly is your argument?

Others if you're reading this, dog pile me. Join in, ask questions, make assertions. Nothing can be taught or learned without discussion.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus says the will of the Father is that He loses nothing the Father gives to Him, including us.

But for instance, what if a Mormon or a Buddhist claims this for themselves ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Honestly, most feel I am a judgmental, arrogant son of a gun for just that reason. I do have a lot of compassion and concern for those I speak with if they'd care to hear it tho.



I am also completely unaware of the differences it appears. I am almost completely 'self' taught. I do not regard most churches as legitimate, so I do not adhere to what most christian profess. I have relied on just the four of us, and the bible for decades now. I do fellowship, and I do discuss the bible regularly. I just am not so much a part of mainstream christianity. I might not know what you do so enlighten me.

What exactly is your argument?

Others if you're reading this, dog pile me. Join in, ask questions, make assertions. Nothing can be taught or learned without discussion.

From what you posted, I have no argument with you, as we agree with Scripture , as ought to be.
What you learned, you learned well and right from the Father, as the Father has revealed in His Word.

 

[SeventyOne]

If you believe it is the will of the Father to sin, then good luck with that.

Didn't say that. Don't misrepresent me.

 

[SeventyOne]

But for instance, what if a Mormon or a Buddhist claims this for themselves ?

Makes no difference who claims it. Why would that change anything?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Makes no difference who claims it. Why would that change anything?

Think about this - if there is a classroom full of people - 50 Christians, 50 muslims and 50 Buddhists,
and
the speaker up front does not know this ,
and starts with "OH we all are so blessed, all of us are saved ! "

How many are actually saved ?

 

[JacksBratt]

But for instance, what if a Mormon or a Buddhist claims this for themselves ?

What does it matter if any of these claim anything about anything. If a Buddhist wants to claim Christ as savior... then so be it. They must, by nature of accepting Christ, accept His teaching. Therefore, reject their false beliefs of a Buddhist... to God be the glory then.

This goes, without saying, for any other false religion. Anyone can come to Christ. He died for all humanity.

To know who Jesus is and accept Him as the savior He is....... is to reject their previous beliefs.

 

[JacksBratt]

Think about this - if there is a classroom full of people - 50 Christians, 50 muslims and 50 Buddhists,
and
the speaker up front does not know this ,
and starts with "OH we all are so blessed, all of us are saved ! "

How many are actually saved ?

What if the speaker claimed that all were woman?
What if the speaker claimed that all were obese?
What if the speaker claimed that all were drunk?


What the speaker claims is of no merit.

 

[hedrick]

I don't think the question in the OP has been answered.

Yes, there are two concepts that one might call OSAS.

Reformed Christianity has a doctrine normally called perseverance of the saints. It says that when God chooses someone, his grace continues for their whole life, preserving their faith to the end.

The other concept seems to be mostly Baptist. It's normally called OSAS. It says that once you accept Christ, he won't give up on you, and thus you will definitely be saved, no matter what happens in your life.

These sound similar, but they're not quite the same. In the Reformed model, everyone who is saved maintains his faith to the end, because God makes sure of it. In the OSAS model, people can lose their faith and still end up saved.

Neither model talks about whether you sin, because justification is by faith alone. However faith unites us with Christ and we die to sin through him, so the assumption is that people with faith won't continue to be controlled by sin. Someone acting like Hitler is assumed not to have faith.

Both look to the same Scriptural passages, though in my opinion the passages are best cited for the Reformed concept. That's not to say that the Reformed concept is free of problems. I'm just not prepared at the moment to talk about them.

 

[Butch5]

How would you in your opinion define "once saved, always saved"? Is it true or is it false doctrine? Would "wilful sinning" have any connection to this said doctrine"? How also about works or obedience? What roles if any would that doctrine play in how we will end up in eternity?

OSAS is a false doctrine. It came into the Church at the Reformation.

 

[Radagast]

OSAS is a false doctrine. It came into the Church at the Reformation.

Thank you for that detailed analysis of a doctrine you obviously don't understand.

 

[Radagast]

I don't think the question in the OP has been answered.

Yes, there are two concepts that one might call OSAS.

Reformed Christianity has a doctrine normally called perseverance of the saints. It says that when God chooses someone, his grace continues for their whole life, preserving their faith to the end.

The other concept seems to be mostly Baptist. It's normally called OSAS. It says that once you accept Christ, he won't give up on you, and thus you will definitely be saved, no matter what happens in your life.

Agreed.

Although these doctrines are connected (historically, the Baptist version is probably a misunderstanding of the Reformed version) it's important to distinguish them.

 

[Radagast]

Yes in that a true christian can lose their salvation, but that is not the jist of this conversation. Nor the meaning behind OSAS.

You obviously understand "OSAS" in a very different way from the rest of the Church.

 

[Kenny'sID]

How would you in your opinion define "once saved, always saved"? Is it true or is it false doctrine?

Absolutely false.

Would "wilful sinning" have any connection to this said doctrine"

Perpetual sin would, continuing in sin, sin as a lifestyle, and even then, just as wilful sin (which includes pretty much all sin as I see it) can be forgiven, but repentance/asking forgiveness is the key there.

For example, living with someone out of wedlock is perpetual sin. Having ongoing relationship with a homosexual partner is a perpetual sin, being a general cheat/liar and so forth. I once read that simply always being up to, or our options always open to sinning, say doing drugs/getting drunk, and laid on a Saturday night, or whatever, is a very bad sign we're on a wrong path...makes sense to me.

Slipping up then repenting/stopping the sin will get us back on track, it's the reason Christ died, (in spite of some telling us Christs death means we can sin all we want and are automatically forgiven) but living in sin without repentance...huge problem.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I don't think the question in the OP has been answered.

Yes, there are two concepts that one might call OSAS.

Reformed Christianity has a doctrine normally called perseverance of the saints. It says that when God chooses someone, his grace continues for their whole life, preserving their faith to the end.

The other concept seems to be mostly Baptist. It's normally called OSAS. It says that once you accept Christ, he won't give up on you, and thus you will definitely be saved, no matter what happens in your life.

These sound similar, but they're not quite the same. In the Reformed model, everyone who is saved maintains his faith to the end, because God makes sure of it. In the OSAS model, people can lose their faith and still end up saved.

Neither model talks about whether you sin, because justification is by faith alone. However faith unites us with Christ and we die to sin through him, so the assumption is that people with faith won't continue to be controlled by sin. Someone acting like Hitler is assumed not to have faith.

Both look to the same Scriptural passages, though in my opinion the passages are best cited for the Reformed concept. That's not to say that the Reformed concept is free of problems. I'm just not prepared at the moment to talk about them.

Noting the overlap between all of the doctrines of grace, more direct to this topic, I think the doctrines of unconditonal election (Sovereign Grace) and perseverance of the Saints (Eternal Security) are most helpful. Perseverance can be thought of as preservance, that is God preserves His people, He finishes the work He began.

(Phil 1:6 [NKJV])
"being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;"