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.That's probably true and provable, but what is a person to do if they are in an assembly that believes it , along with other things not in harmony with Scripture ? What can one individual do when they find out ?
.Sorry, no. It's more like in a school for jet pilots (humanly speaking).
100 might start , with a "guarantee" that includes housing, funding, and all the other needs for the duration of the school.
Then in the first week 1 or 2 drop out.
In the next six weeks, 22 more drop out... and so on.
By the end of the school, maybe 7 to 15 are graduating,
although they ALL were guaranteed tuition, books, uniforms, medical, and so on -- everything they needed was provided, but most by far do not make it to the end.
.Oh, it wasn't that kind of sorry, no.
Closer to "Jesus wept" actually, when so many were in unbelief even though He was there.
.a lot of the vitriol towards this saying comes from the practice of the alter call where someone prays a prayer and they're in.
OSAS has been abused so badly that it's better not to go there.
.Well.....by "unsupported" I meant there ought to be Scripture you can point to---and I DO see the idea that "most of the world never experiences it ["it" being once saved/always saved]" as contradictory to Scripture. I posted these passages earlier:
"He *is* making "all things new" (Is 43:18-19; Is 65:17; Hebrews 8:13; Revelation 21:5)...and also:
View attachment 215931
Those passages are greatly different than this:
.I agree. If this were what it takes to enter into the Kingdom of God (and all that goes along with that framework)....then what's even the point of most of the New Testament (especially the book of James)?
Show me one scripture where people seek forgiveness for future sins and leave it at that.
You don't believe in the process of sanctifcation? and that the Spirit can be quenched? Repeatedly doing so results results in a conscience that is seared 1 Timothy 4:2
.Right.
People still sin.
The penalty for sin is still death.
So people still die in their sin. (not everyone, but most of the world)
.Those who are truly saved willfully sin all the time. Yet they cannot remain in sin. Faith will ultimately get the victory and Jesus will lead them to true repentance.
Those who truly believe work this faith out in love and obedience. True faith brings about obedience to the commands of God.
The doctrine is meant to encourage us in the midst of the many trials and temptations that we endure in this life.
.1) What about King David's adultery and murder?
2) What about Peter's denial of Christ?
1. for 1 john 3:9 i'm just reading it as it is. It says continuous sin...not discrete sin.
2. Look your whole argument about...going from follower to....some more perfect being doesn't even matter. The point is that the letter...was written to Christians who had an understanding. 1 john 3:9 and 1 john 2:1 were written to the same group of people at the same exact time. This is all within one letter for one group.
There is no level 1, 2, and 3 in this letter. Sure I agree levels exist...the bible mentions new born babes supping on the milk of the word but yeah that's not the case here. Every Christian can have an advocate with the father if they sin.
3. The biggest biggest flaw in your argument is the argument that the disciples didn't have the HOly Spirit so they lacked an understanding.
The reason why this argument isn't a good argument to claim that 1 john 2:1 applies to people such as the disciples who didn't have the HOly SPirit yet and lacked an understanding is becuase of this.
Every single letter that Paul wrote to was to Christians that have already experienced the acts 2:38 experience. They aren't the equivalent of those confused disciples that didn't have the HOly Spirit to teach them all things and bring all things to their remembrance. These people that received 1 john already had this understanding.
Art thou a master of Christianity, and knowest not these things?Define what you are calling the "process of sanctification" and the "Spirit can be quenched".
God Bless,
SBC
I’m waiting on your scripture man... clearly me and you have a logical perspective but one of us is using scripture. I want scripture for forever being forgiven and never having to go before God again to repent or seek forgiveness. The lord’s prayer even has seeking forgiveness...My chosen version is
Does not Sin
Can not Sin
You seem to express there is a possibility for one to Sin...After he is Born OF God.
Man is Born OF God BY receiving Gods Seed in his Heart.
The Word of God was Born OF God when Gods living Word came forth out from Gods mouth.
A man having received the Seed of God is called; A son of God.
The Word of God, revealed in the likeness as a man, is called; the Only begotten
Son of God; and called by the Name Jesus.
{begotten because Only he came forth Out of God}
By your rendition and implication
Any Son / son OF God seems to try really hard to Not Practice Sin.... but that there IS a Possibility He / he Might Sin.....
Is that accurate ?
Because if so...
I totally disagree with you.
Being crucified with Christ is one thing
That concerns a physically alive body that IS spiritual Dead to God becoming washed, in Jesus' Blood, Sanctified, Annointed By God,
and reserved i.e. set Aside I.e. Kept with Christ, testified OF In Heaven, In Gods Records, In Gods Book of Life that that body is Justified TO BE Redeemed and Changed Into a glorious body., thereafter Forever fully aware of being with the Lord.
In the meantime that physically Alive body is spirituality Alive IN Christs Jesus' Body.
Being saved is one thing
That concerns restoration of ones soul.
Being born again is another thing
That concerns the quickening of ones Spirit.
If you recall God created man Very Good, In Gods LIKENESS.
What Changed ?
Belief IN God.
How?
By Man Rejecting Gods Word and instead accepting one of Gods creations word, that was In Conflict with Gods Word.
And What IS Disbelief IN God called?
Sin.
And How does a man Sin?
By Rejecting Gods Word and instead accept mans word that Is in Conflict with Gods Word.
And ? So man became "NOT GOOD".
And mans seeds reproduces more of his not good kinds of things.
And ? Boo hoo mankind is doomed?
No. yeah, yeah, God has provided His Way for a mans, body, soul, & Spirit to be made Whole and acceptable To God.
That Is effected By a mans Freewill to choose to Believe In God, Trust His Word is True, and Do what His Word Says.
When God Forgives a man - He is Forgiving a man FOR NOT having Believed IN Him and For Not having Trusting His Word over His creations Word that conflict with His Word.
ONCE a man HAS Freely chosen To Believe in God and Trust His Word over His creations Word that conflict with God.....
And -
God has made the man Whole.....
Restored the man back to Good.....
Keeps the man Whole and Good BY the supreme Power of His Spirit....
What....Power IS Greater that can EVER cause that man To ever Again Sin?
NONE! ZIP! NADA!
Such a man IS forever FREED From Sin and Can Not Ever Sin Again.
Sin is only Against God.
And Only God forgives Sin.
Does Scriptures call Acts of man Against man A Sin? Yep.
Why?
Because UNDER Mosaic Law Every disobedient Act a man did Against The Law was called a Sin.
Why?
Because IT WAS BY Obedience TO the Law,
Hoe a man revealed He Believed IN God.
And that carried forward from the Hebrews To the Tribes of Israel to the Jews of this day where BY some of the Tribe of Judah continue and some of the other Tribes faulted, yet while they all are of the same Race of Hebrews separated from the Race of Gentiles.
I am a Gentile. My history did not begin being subject to mosaic law, steeped in knowledge of their God, their customs, traditions. My history begins with the Word of God, whom I Trust IS my God With me. Every thing asked of me To Do and Believe has Been By and through Him.
I have accomplished BY my Own choosing to submit my Life To Him and fully Trust He is Faithful to have made me Whole and FREED From Sin.
Paul taught to mixed crowds. You call them Christians.
A Christian in Scriptures is simply a follower of Christs teaching.
No different today.
A born again Christian Is not merely a follower, but rather a man who has Committed his Life To Christ the Lod Jesus.
Huge Difference.
Paul's crowds...mixed Jews & Gentiles -
All hearing Paul's same words.
All believing ? No.
What was familiar Knowledge to a Jew?
Everything they did WRONG was for, 4 thousand years called A Sin.
And ?
For a Gentile? {never having been subject to mosaic law}
Disbelief in the Word of God, who IS God, Is A Sin.
So How did with one Speech teach to Jews and Gentiles in the Same crowd.
The Same Way as Jesus taught. Speaking The Truth in A Fashion that a mixed crowd could understand what He was saying BY terms that were Familiar To Them.....
While Also revealing Truths that neither the Jews or the Gentiles Had Ever Heard.
It was Jesus' revealing such Truths that would DIVIDE...Jews & Gentiles FROM Him or
Congregate....Jews & Gentiles TO Him.
When you read Scriptures Discover Who Paul is addressing- men steeped in mosaic law or Gentiles.
The divided or the ones submitting.
And the ones submitted...then what?
Done deal?
As far as their Salvation... Yes.
As far as their Behavior and Works ? No.
Their Behavior and HOW TO do works to Glorify God are continually taught and reprimanded when one is found in conflict to be doing something reflective of being a poor reflection On Gods begotten "Son" and on Gods quickened "sons"!
When reprimanding a Jew, the familiar term of SIN is their familiar understanding of not doing something Correctly.
When reprimanding a Gentile, the familiar term IS you're Not Behaving "Christ-Like".
Then we have the Gentiles WHO...have submitted their Life to Christ, become Forgiven of their Sin Against God, become reconciled To God ...but, but, but....
Have ADOPTED a Jews historical understanding of SIN....
Oh my you drank too much...you Sinned
Oh my you didn't eat with sinners...you Sinned
Oh my you ate with sinners...you Sinned.
Oh my you said you would wash the dishes and you didn't....you Sinned.
Good grief Gentiles get a clue...you are Not Jews Proving your Belief in God by Following Jewish law or subject to their terminology that every imperfect work you do is a sin.
Stop preaching Gods Word is dependent Upon a mans Behavior!
Know what your Sin Against God Was and Thus You would Know What God Forgave.
Stop with the nonsense God Forgave your Sin but but but - somehow IS waiting On the sidelines Waiting TO See If You will Trump His Word With Your Behavior Of Stop Believing In Him!
Acknowledge your reprimands of not Behaving Christ-like and Fix that and move On, improving your Behavior to that which glorifies God.
It doesn't mean you have STOPPED Believing,
Which IS what God Already Forgave.
It simply means your works are crummy and not up to par...So fix it....what do you think the Power of God is in you For?
Hello? It's There to strengthen you... so get busy and ask for His strength to improve your works!
Stop preaching the undermining OF Gods Forgiveness. His Word Spoken Is TRUE regardless of what you Do.
God Bless,
SBC
1 John 3:9 doesn’t even say what you claim it’s saying. Even in the KJV version the word commit is refering to continuous sin. in fact sometimes Paul makes it clear when in another verse in chapter 3 he says committeth sin which means to practice sin when he says “he that committeth sin is of the devil. And before you claim that that’s not for saved Christians... he’s writing that to saved Christians as if he believes they need to be warned not to do that. If it wasn’t possible to sin after being saved he wouldn’t say that. 1 John 3:9 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. I also know this because of 1 John 2:1 John 2:1 1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: Here is yet again the other scriptures I have that show a saved person cannot just sin again but backside and leave the faith. If it’s biblical that one can backslide then we can assume one can sin again obviously. If I can just prove in the scriptures that one can backslide that some sin enoigh... although I have shown repeatedly that 1 John 2:1 has “if” as if it’s possible to sin again. 2 corithians 13:5First show me where Future sins are committed ONCE a man is Born OF God ... that would make 1 John 3:9 A lie. Also if 1 John 3:9 did mean any sin then the Bible would be contradicting itself because 1 John 2:1 says if one continues to sin.
God Bless
SBC
.
David cannot be considered Saved, Jesus had not yet suffered and died for our sins, Salvation as we know it was not available to those of the Old Testament.
Peter's denial while it might have been a lie, was not a sin on the same grounds as David
Art thou a master of Christianity, and knowest not these things?
I’m waiting on your scripture man... clearly me and you have a logical perspective but one of us is using scripture. I want scripture for forever being forgiven and never having to go before God again to repent or seek forgiveness. The lord’s prayer even has seeking forgiveness...
1 John 3:9 doesn’t even say what you claim it’s saying. Even in the KJV version the word commit is refering to continuous sin. in fact sometimes Paul makes it clear when in another verse in chapter 3 he says committeth sin which means to practice sin when he says “he that committeth sin is of the devil. And before you claim that that’s not for saved Christians... he’s writing that to saved Christians as if he believes they need to be warned not to do that. If it wasn’t possible to sin after being saved he wouldn’t say that. 1 John 3:9 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. I also know this because of 1 John 2:1 John 2:1 1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: Here is yet again the other scriptures I have that show a saved person cannot just sin again but backside and leave the faith. If it’s biblical that one can backslide then we can assume one can sin again obviously. If I can just prove in the scriptures that one can backslide that some sin enoigh... although I have shown repeatedly that 1 John 2:1 has “if” as if it’s possible to sin again. 2 corithians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Comment: One can depart the faith and even reach reprobate status.... reprobate means... failing to pass....unapproved....counterfeit
1 Timothy 4:1King JamesVersion (KJV)
4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Here's a great example here...one that was once saved following Paul but he left Demas.
2 Timothy 4:10King James Version (KJV)
10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this
The message of the gospel calls for a radical transformation of life. We don't remain as we are then suddenly after death all is taken care of for us. Acceptance of God’s provision of righteousness in Christ demands the outworking of righteousness in our own lives and the putting away of sin. Romans 7 and much of scripture deals with that. Changing from glory to glory is the process by which we continually see more clearly.That's clever, however I did not ask you what I know.
I don't know you or know what you know or know how you concluded your understanding,
Those things can only be revealed BY You.
I simply asked You to reveal What You meant By Your own words?
God Bless,
SBC
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