Are there different definitions of the "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

mkgal1

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Getting off now....I'm dizzy trying.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Which Scripture are you referring to (without that, it's only an unsupported statement)?
All of Scripture, actually, all in perfect harmony.
It's okay if it is unsupported, as long as it is not contradicting Scripture.
No matter what men say (even what Christians say), it doesn't matter as far as Scripture being unchangeable - none of Scripture is changed.
The world rejects it all,
I accept it all,
trusting in Yahweh (God) for eternal life, by faith and grace in Jesus.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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It is false regardless of the definition used.
That's probably true and provable,
but what is a person to do if they are in an assembly that believes it , along with other things not in harmony with Scripture ? What can one individual do when they find out ?
 
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CodyFaith

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It's the truth.

Jesus says he who believes in him has passed from death unto life and will not come into condemnation. Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. You can't have eternal life at one point and then lose it, it's not an object collected, it's eternal life. In 1 John towards the end it makes it very clear the believer has eternal life.
" and this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." 1 John 5:12
And the following verse says "These things I have written unto you that you that believe on the name of the Son od God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God"

It's even in the O.T. Read the Psalms. I'll give the common Psalm 23 as an example. "Surely goodness will follow me all of my days and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever" - that was a psalm for the righteous and a gurantee towards them. If it wasn't a gurantee for the righteous it wouldn't be in there, along with all the others Psalms that say the same things.

Scripture is clear. All saints have eternal life.

Believe in Jesus and be adopted into the family of God by Christ's blood. That is all God requires for salvation and that is the gospel.
 
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GingerBeer

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That's probably true and provable,
but what is a person to do if they are in an assembly that believes it , along with other things not in harmony with Scripture ? What can one individual do when they find out ?
Withdraw from the assembly of the deceived and seek for the pure spiritual milk that the Lord gives to his people in his church.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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If it wasn't a gurantee for the righteous it wouldn't be in there, along with all the others Psalms that say the same things.
Sorry, no. It's more like in a school for jet pilots (humanly speaking).
100 might start , with a "guarantee" that includes housing, funding, and all the other needs for the duration of the school.
Then in the first week 1 or 2 drop out.
In the next six weeks, 22 more drop out... and so on.
By the end of the school, maybe 7 to 15 are graduating,
although they ALL were guaranteed tuition, books, uniforms, medical, and so on -- everything they needed was provided, but most by far do not make it to the end.
 
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CodyFaith

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Sorry, no. It's more like in a school for jet pilots (humanly speaking).
100 might start , with a "guarantee" that includes housing, funding, and all the other needs for the duration of the school.
Then in the first week 1 or 2 drop out.
In the next six weeks, 22 more drop out... and so on.
By the end of the school, maybe 7 to 15 are graduating,
although they ALL were guaranteed tuition, books, uniforms, medical, and so on -- everything they needed was provided, but most by far do not make it to the end.
No need to say "sorry", as, like often times before, there will be no convincing here - as I know the truth and am free.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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No need to say "sorry", as, like often times before, there will be no convincing here - as I know the truth and am free.
Oh, it wasn't that kind of sorry, no.
Closer to "Jesus wept" actually, when so many were in unbelief even though He was there.
 
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CodyFaith

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Oh, it wasn't that kind of sorry, no.
Closer to "Jesus wept" actually, when so many were in unbelief even though He was there.
Interesting. See, myself, I don't believe anyone will ever come close to weeping as Jesus did. I don't believe man can ever attain to such compassion and empathy, and I believe those words are some of the most holy words in scripture.

You don't share any of that sympathy, infact you have no sympathy towards me at all - quite the opposite. So a rhetorical question to you would be, why did you say you did then?

But you'll go your way, fighting against the truth, and I'll go my way, proclaiming the truth, just as we both often do.

I'm not going to reply to you further in this thread, because Jesus has commanded that I don't cast away my pearls. Seeya.
 
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mkgal1

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All of Scripture, actually, all in perfect harmony.
It's okay if it is unsupported, as long as it is not contradicting Scripture.
No matter what men say (even what Christians say), it doesn't matter as far as Scripture being unchangeable - none of Scripture is changed.
The world rejects it all,
I accept it all,
trusting in Yahweh (God) for eternal life, by faith and grace in Jesus.
Well.....by "unsupported" I meant there ought to be Scripture you can point to---and I DO see the idea that "most of the world never experiences it ["it" being once saved/always saved]" as contradictory to Scripture. I posted these passages earlier:
"He *is* making "all things new" (Is 43:18-19; Is 65:17; Hebrews 8:13; Revelation 21:5)...and also:

upload_2017-12-10_17-9-26.png


Those passages are greatly different than this:

It's more like in a school for jet pilots (humanly speaking).
100 might start , with a "guarantee" that includes housing, funding, and all the other needs for the duration of the school.
Then in the first week 1 or 2 drop out.
In the next six weeks, 22 more drop out... and so on.
By the end of the school, maybe 7 to 15 are graduating,
although they ALL were guaranteed tuition, books, uniforms, medical, and so on -- everything they needed was provided, but most by far do not make it to the end.
 
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mkgal1

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a lot of the vitriol towards this saying comes from the practice of the alter call where someone prays a prayer and they're in.

OSAS has been abused so badly that it's better not to go there.
I agree. If this were what it takes to enter into the Kingdom of God (and all that goes along with that framework)....then what's even the point of most of the New Testament (especially the book of James)?
 
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Linktogunner

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Never give up, never stop coming to christ and understanding your need for him. Never stop asking for the spirits guidance and never stop confessing your sins directly to God and to other brothers and sisters. Just keep coming to Christ.. he will grow you if you honestly ask him to.

Edit: A question and a statement for the couple people that are so vehemently against the osas. I think a true osas theology means that if you truly beleive in the gospel of christ you might have low points of growth but you will always be progressively growing in Christ.. through lessons learned by failure and success. So here's the question: where's the line for those of you that do not beleive in osas? Because we all stumble in many ways, sooo.....
 
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CodyFaith

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How would you in your opinion define "once saved, always saved"? Is it true or is it false doctrine? Would "wilful sinning" have any connection to this said doctrine"? How also about works or obedience? What roles if any would that doctrine play in how we will end up in eternity?
Also, to answer another part of this, the willfully sinning talked about in Hebrews are people who have seen the goodness of the Holy Spirit and the faith, but reject it's goodness, thereby damning themselves. This is not something someone does lightly, nor is it something someone who seeks Christ continually has to worry about. People who worry about this continually and seek forgiveness from Christ often are already children of God and definately not damned. It's just one of those verses people usually worry about.

As far as works go, people often cite and misinterpret James in regards to works. James was saying not teaching works are needed for salvation ontop of faith. James was teaching that a tree is known by it's fruit, and so just as a person can pick a fruit off a tree to tell if the tree is a good tree or a bad one, so can works show that a person has genuine faith or does not. In context what was being spoken of was genuine faith vs. ingenuine "faith".
 
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1stcenturylady

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It's the truth.

Jesus says he who believes in him has passed from death unto life and will not come into condemnation. Jesus said whoever believes has eternal life. You can't have eternal life at one point and then lose it, it's not an object collected, it's eternal life. In 1 John towards the end it makes it very clear the believer has eternal life.
" and this is the record, that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son." 1 John 5:12
And the following verse says "These things I have written unto you that you that believe on the name of the Son od God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God"

It's even in the O.T. Read the Psalms. I'll give the common Psalm 23 as an example. "Surely goodness will follow me all of my days and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever" - that was a psalm for the righteous and a gurantee towards them. If it wasn't a gurantee for the righteous it wouldn't be in there, along with all the others Psalms that say the same things.

Scripture is clear. All saints have eternal life.

Believe in Jesus and be adopted into the family of God by Christ's blood. That is all God requires for salvation and that is the gospel.

The problem is life happens. Some have children who have died before them and rage at God, and some wind up not believing in Him anymore and just fall away from all truth. If they reject all counsel, and no one can turn them back, they could become lost.

And then there are others who never do the requirements for receiving the Holy Spirit, and without the Spirit of Christ, that person doesn't belong to Christ, even if they believe Jesus is God. They just don't FOLLOW Him. That is not being saved. But they are in churches that tell them they are.
 
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CodyFaith

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The problem is life happens. Some have children who have died before them and rage at God, and some wind up not believing in Him anymore and just fall away from all truth. If they reject all counsel, and no one can turn them back, they could become lost.

And then there are others who never do the requirements for receiving the Holy Spirit, and without the Spirit of Christ, that person doesn't belong to Christ, even if they believe Jesus is God. They just don't FOLLOW Him. That is not being saved. But they are in churches that tell them they are.
The only requirement to recieve the Holy Spirit is to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and to believe that he died for our sins and was ressurected. Faith in Jesus is all one needs.

Whether someone can fall away after having saving faith is another subject matter.
 
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1stcenturylady

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The only requirement to recieve the Holy Spirit is to believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and to believe that he died for our sins and was ressurected. Faith in Jesus is all one needs.

Whether someone can fall away after having saving faith is another subject matter.

Can you receive Jesus as your ticket to heaven without repenting of your sin?
 
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CodyFaith

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Can you receive Jesus as your ticket to heaven without repenting of your sin?
What does repenting of sin mean to you?

If someone knows they need forgiveness and seeks Jesus, this is not a work. This is not something they "do". Nothing we "do" for God prior to putting our faith in Jesus pleases Him. Our "do's" for God are filthy rags before faith.
 
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