Are there Christians today who minimize the consequences of sin and ignore morality on some level?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Talking about a case whereby a person has lived a Good, Virtuous, Righteous and Holy life by obeying the Word of God and doing God's Will for a Long time. It is Impossible for this person to fall into sin by temptation or trial at the end of a holy life filled and sanctified with the Holy Graces of God. The person will not fall short at the end.

How did this person become 'good, virtuous, righteous and holy' to then live such a life,
since
everyone today is born dead in sin and trespasses, subject to the prince of the power of the air (the devil) ?

 

[Gabriel Anton]

How did this person become 'good, virtuous, righteous and holy' to then live such a life,
since
everyone today is born dead in sin and trespasses, subject to the prince of the power of the air (the devil) ?

Peace be with you.

Why you ask me a question whereby my answer is already there?

God bless you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Talking about a case whereby a person has lived a Good, Virtuous, Righteous and Holy life by obeying the Word of God and doing God's Will for a Long time.

If you mean the answer is there ^^^^^^^^^^
then it is wrong according to God's Word.

Why you ask me a question whereby my answer is already there?

 

[Gabriel Anton]

If you mean the answer is there ^^^^^^^^^^
then it is wrong according to God's Word.

Peace be with you.

You know the Word of God. I also know the Word of God. You maybe right and I maybe wrong. But I am not in the business of arguing who is right and who is wrong. I don't desire to prove you wrong or to prove you right. I find arguing with someone to be rather unfruitful.

My philosophy on the Word of God is everyone is entitled to have their views and opinions on it. I consider it rather bad manners and highly offensive to say that someone's opinion is wrong according to the Word of God when the Word of God contains so many Fruitful Words for living a Good, Virtuous, Righteous and Holy Life.

So pardon me as I put you on ignore as I do not wish your enlightenment nor do I wish to engage with you in future conversations. It's not your fault. It's my fault. My character despises pride and folly. I am not able to follow them due to absolute repugnance of those vices.

God bless you.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you don't know the answer, you could just admit you don't know.

Simply, as Jesus says, you must be born again.

No one is righteous who is not born again Today on earth.

I think you've shown yourself as an example, thank you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again, that is not the subject, but all those sins are forgivable.

If you are asking if those who do those things would maker it to heaven if they did it, and didn't repent in time or before they died, it would all depend on God and the circumstance surrounding it. I gave a scenario where I thought he may not condemn a man. Ongoing drunkenness for instance did not fit into what I was claiming, so has nothing to do with the subject.

Once again, I'm talking about a man/woman who was generally very good all their life, and even that is just a for instance..there are all types of situations where your view of things may not be the way it is. If those people you mention were doing that as a lifestyle and die in those sins, they would likely be up the creek, but if they did it once and the rest of their life was good and circumstance had it where they didn't get to repent before they died but God knew full well they would have, that is an example of where I feel he might just let them into the Kingdom.

God would be fair, and he is better at that than us.

First, you make it sound like God is not in control of death. As if something in this world was out of His control. I am sorry to inform you. God is Sovereign! God is in control!

Second, God would be breaking His own Word if what you say is true because God took their life before giving them a chance to repent (i.e. confess or forsake their sin). We know repeatedly in Scripture that for a believer, for them to repent is a cleansing from sin. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This verse would be meaningless rubbish if a person could just rely upon the fact that they do not need to worry all too much about sin if they relied upon your idea that their case for sinning was special right before they died. That is why it is wrong. There are no exceptions for horrible sins like hate, murder, adultery, theft, drunkeness, and lying, etc. Again, if God made an exception for one person to get away with sin, then He would have to let everybody in and accept their excuses for committing even one really bad sin.

For example: You probably think there is an exception to the rule of lying.

For example, you might think that God approved of Rahab in lying; However, Rahab did not break the 9th Commandment and lie. She was using the art of war in protecting the interests of God's people. For she did not lie to protect herself or to cover up another sin or anything of that nature.

For in war time or in protecting your loved ones or God's people, a person can use the art of war to defend that which is good. This sometimes unfortunately involves deceiving and or eliminating your enemy; However, these things are not done out of selfish ambition, but they are done in order to preserve innocent lives or to protect the common good.

For the Hebrew midwives had lied to the Pharoah's servants to protect the innocent (Exodus 1).

And King David pretended he was crazy when he was not crazy in front of the enemy king of Gath named "Achish" (1 Samuel 21:10-15).

Also, Elisha deceived the enemy when they were blinded by lying about where he was taking them. (2 Kings 6:19)

In addition in Joshua 8:
Joshua himself went in battle against the city of Ai, they pretended that they were being defeated and they retreated. They weren’t being defeated—it was a trap. The Israelites deceived them.

Please take note that God told Joshua to lay an ambush for the army at Ai. If you were to read the chapter, this ambush involved deception. In other words, God was telling Joshua to deceive their enemies as a part of the art of war.

However, if a certain spirit was telling Joshua to lie so as to cover up a sin and or his own embarrassment or shame about something, then that would be a wrong spirit who was trying to make Joshua break the 9th Commandment.

Anyways, we learn that 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:7, and 1 John 2:3-6 are not isolated verses on God forgiving His people. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes their sin shall have mercy. Psalms 32:3-5 talks about how David confessed his sin and he was for forgiven (cf. Psalms 51). Jesus says the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah (Matthew 12:41). If you were to turn to Jonah 3:6-10, we see that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to cry out to God and turn from their evil ways and when God had seen that the people turned from their evil ways, He then did not bring Judgment upon them anymore. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son we see that the Son had admitted his sin before Heaven and he returned to the Father and his father said he was "dead" and is now "alive again" (speaking spiritually) two times (Luke 15:18-24). John the Baptist told people to repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand (Matthew 3:2). Jesus said, repent or perish (Luke 13:3). Again, all of this would be meaningless rubbish if a person could think they could bypass all of this. Granted, I believe in some cases (or certain circumstances) that a person can simply believe on Jesus and be saved. For example: If a person believed in Jesus had lived in a jungle somewhere and they were simple minded and they did not have access to the Word of God like we do, it makes sense that they would be saved. For to whom much is given, much is required (Luke 12:48). I also believe that if a person were to believe on Jesus as their Savior before they die (like with the thief on the cross - Luke 23:42-43), they would be saved, as well. For the Scriptures do tell us that a person can just believe on His name and be saved (John 1:12). But people who know that they should repent and do not do so (and or they were not given the chance to do so because God took their life), they are not forgiven; Because it would mean God would have to break His own Word in order to forgive them.



...

 

[Kenny'sID]

First, you make it sound like God is not in control of death. As if something in this world was out of His control. I am sorry to inform you. God is Sovereign! God is in control!

How did I make it sound like that? Of course he's in control of death, he's in control of everything. At least in the past and very likely now, he may still choose to personally take someone out, but he made everyone to die, so whether he does that or not, he is certainly in control of it. You are basically changing the subject.

For example: You probably think there is an exception to the rule of lying.

There are no exceptions to any rule, sin is sin, but there is extenuating circumstance that clearly you refuse to consider. You keep gong on about worse case scenarios, when I made it clear and even corrected you on that. Also the, "if God does it for one, he has to do it for another" again my point is, yes, break your rule that you somehow you think God can't break. Will you allow God to be fair and do right by people or hold him to your rule? You keep repeating that rule, and it's as if you feel just because the rule exists, it has to be applied in all cases.

The rest of your post? like telling me protecting people in war is ok, that's a given, and has nothing to do with the subject, so I just stopped reading there. You aren't going to get that or other things with how your thought process works, and it's pretty evident you can't help that so, it's OK...

I will add one more thing before I drop it. There are likely many in all Christians life, but for the sake of this argument, lets just say, what about that one sin that you didn't know was sin, or that one sin so small you just didn't consider asking forgiveness for it, or it slipped your mind, or are you going to tell me that couldn't possibly happen? Of course it could and likely has, I'll even go to the extreme of saying it HAS happened. With your way of thinking, you are going to Hell for that because God makes no acceptations. Reap what you have sown my friend, you sowed the strict rule, so certainly it will pertain to you, right? Doesn't seem like such a terrible thing to me, that probably most of the Christians on the planet that have fed the poor, done unto others and all that Jesus required of them, missed a few sins, but if God made an exception for you/them, then he'd have to do it for everyone, and we can't have that....right? So now, because of your way of thinking, most if not all the so-called saved are going to Hell, that is unless God can make some exceptions.

I'm 100% sure he does and he will, and if he does it for one, he WILL do it for everyone in spite of this rule you think God has to force himself to adhere to..

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How did I make it sound like that? Of course he's in control of death, he's in control of everything. At least in the past and very likely now, he may still choose to personally take someone out, but he made everyone to die, so whether he does that or not, he is certainly in control of it. You are basically changing the subject.

Well, before you said you needed verses to show that God is the taker of life. I have provided them (Which gives Biblical weight to my my side of the argument). For the Lord being the holder of the keys of death and hell is not a complete changing of the subject but it plays into our topic of discussion here. How so? Stop and think for a moment. If death was something outside of God's control, then it would mean death would be accidental whereby it would play into your thinking that God would have to be sympathetic of making an exception for a person's unrepentant sins that lead to the second death (When in the reality it would be a compromise on God's standard of morality or goodness). So seeing God is in control of how a person dies, and death is no accident, there is no excuse to ignore Scripture on repentance and righteous living as a part of upholding God's standard of goodness or morality in relation to a person's good standing with God.

There are no exceptions to any rule, sin is sin, but there is extenuating circumstance that clearly you refuse to consider. You keep gong on about worse case scenarios, when I made it clear and even corrected you on that.

I must have missed your post. I have been a little busy lately. Please provide me with specific post #'s you believe you have made such extenuating circumstances.

However, lets just take a look at a couple of sins as an example. Is there an extenuating circumstance in murdering someone? I am not talking about self defense out of some impulse reaction (Which by the way God would give a person time to repent of such a sin if the Lord knew they were penitent). I am talking about planning such a sin. Is there an extenuating circumstance for that? How about cheating on one's spouse? Is that something that God would just let slide? How about leading children into sin? What did Jesus say would happen if one were to do that? Is there an extenuating circumstance for that, too?

Also the, "if God does it for one, he has to do it for another" again my point is, yes, break your rule that you somehow you think God can't break. Will you allow God to be fair and do right by people or hold him to your rule? You keep repeating that rule, and it's as if you feel just because the rule exists, it has to be applied in all cases.

The problem is that you have not offered any case in the New Testament where a sin that leads unto the Second Death (i.e. the Lake of Fire) can be committed and not repented of before one dies (With the thinking one is still saved). In other words, you are making a case based on smoke and mirrors with no Scriptural support. I prefer to stick to exactly what Scripture says. Why? Because it is the safer play. For if I am right and you wrong, you are going to have to answer to God for teaching others that you can bend His Commands or Laws or not take them as seriously (If a person can trick themselves into thinking their sin is an extenuating circumstance).

The rest of your post? like telling me protecting people in war is ok, that's a given, and has nothing to do with the subject, so I just stopped reading there. You aren't going to get that or other things with how your thought process works, and it's pretty evident you can't help that so, it's OK...

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Please explain.

I will add one more thing before I drop it. There are likely many in all Christians life, but for the sake of this argument, lets just say, what about that one sin that you didn't know was sin, or that one sin so small you just didn't consider asking forgiveness for it, or it slipped your mind, or are you going to tell me that couldn't possibly happen? Of course it could and likely has, I'll even go to the extreme of saying it HAS happened. With your way of thinking, you are going to Hell for that because God makes no acceptations.

No. As I stated before, God convicts His people of their sins so as to get them to repent. If that does not work, then He will chastise them if they are sons and not bastards. I mean, stop and think about that for a moment. What is your understanding between the difference between a son and a bastard as spoken about in Scripture? (See Hebrews 12:8).

Scripture says God is not willing that ANY should perish but all should come to repentance. This means, there is no accidental deaths (where a person could not repent in time). For God gives space or time for man to repent of His sins. There is no case where man is going to be without excuse before God in regards to unrepentant sin.

Okay. I want you to stop and think for a moment. At what Judgment does Christ tell certain believers He never knew them (as mentioned in Matthew 7)?

I believe it is at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
(2 Corinthians 5:9-11).

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:12).

In Revelation 22:12, Jesus says, “Look, I am Coming Soon, bringing MY REWARD with me to REPAY all people according to their DEEDS."

In Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, Solomon says, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, For this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring EVERY WORK into JUDGMENT, including EVERY SECRET THING, whether GOOD or EVIL."

What happens as the result of the Judgment Seat of Christ?

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Matthew 13:41-42).

Reap what you have sown my friend, you sowed the strict rule, so certainly it will pertain to you, right? Doesn't seem like such a terrible thing to me, that probably most of the Christians on the planet that have fed the poor, done unto others and all that Jesus required of them, missed a few sins, but if God made an exception for you/them, then he'd have to do it for everyone, and we can't have that....right? So now, because of your way of thinking, most if not all the so-called saved are going to Hell, that is unless God can make some exceptions.

What kind of exceptions are you talking about? What sins can Christians commit with God making an exception to it? Please provide Scripture (Along with real world examples). Thank you.

I'm 100% sure he does and he will, and if he does it for one, he WILL do it for everyone in spite of this rule you think God has to force himself to adhere to..

I did not make up the Commands in the Bible and the consequences that are attached in not obeying them. I did not make up repentance, either. I am only going by what God's Word says; And it makes no mention of extenuating circumstances as you suggest.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In other words, please state in Scripture where there is an exception to the rule listed in the New Testament for the following sins listed below:

Matthew 5:28-30
Matthew 6:15
Matthew 12:36-37
Matthew 18:6
Luke 9:26
Galatians 5:19-21
1 John 3:15
Revelation 21:8


...

 

[DingDing]

Are there Christians today who minimize the consequences of sin and ignore morality on some level?

...

Yes, many main-line denominations like Southern Baptist and Calvary Chapels do this.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Well, before you said you needed verses to show that God is the taker of life. I have provided them (Which gives Biblical weight to my my side of the argument). For the Lord being the holder of the keys of death and hell is not a complete changing of the subject but it plays into our topic of discussion here. How so? Stop and think for a moment. If death was something outside of God's control, then it would mean death would be accidental whereby it would play into your thinking that God would have to be sympathetic of making an exception for a person's unrepentant sins that lead to the second death (When in the reality it would be a compromise on God's standard of morality or goodness). So seeing God is in control of how a person dies, and death is no accident, there is no excuse to ignore Scripture on repentance and righteous living as a part of upholding God's standard of goodness or morality in relation to a person's good standing with God.



I must have missed your post. I have been a little busy lately. Please provide me with specific post #'s you believe you have made such extenuating circumstances.

However, lets just take a look at a couple of sins as an example. Is there an extenuating circumstance in murdering someone? I am not talking about self defense out of some impulse reaction (Which by the way God would give a person time to repent of such a sin if the Lord knew they were penitent). I am talking about planning such a sin. Is there an extenuating circumstance for that? How about cheating on one's spouse? Is that something that God would just let slide? How about leading children into sin? What did Jesus say would happen if one were to do that? Is there an extenuating circumstance for that, too?



The problem is that you have not offered any case in the New Testament where a sin that leads unto the Second Death (i.e. the Lake of Fire) can be committed and not repented of before one dies (With the thinking one is still saved). In other words, you are making a case based on smoke and mirrors with no Scriptural support. I prefer to stick to exactly what Scripture says. Why? Because it is the safer play. For if I am right and you wrong, you are going to have to answer to God for teaching others that you can bend His Commands or Laws or not take them as seriously (If a person can trick themselves into thinking their sin is an extenuating circumstance).



I have no idea what you are talking about here. Please explain.



No. As I stated before, God convicts His people of their sins so as to get them to repent. If that does not work, then He will chastise them if they are sons and not bastards. I mean, stop and think about that for a moment. What is your understanding between the difference between a son and a bastard as spoken about in Scripture? (See Hebrews 12:8).

Scripture says God is not willing that ANY should perish but all should come to repentance. This means, there is no accidental deaths (where a person could not repent in time). For God gives space or time for man to repent of His sins. There is no case where man is going to be without excuse before God in regards to unrepentant sin.

Okay. I want you to stop and think for a moment. At what Judgment does Christ tell certain believers He never knew them (as mentioned in Matthew 7)?

I believe it is at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
(2 Corinthians 5:9-11).

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:12).

In Revelation 22:12, Jesus says, “Look, I am Coming Soon, bringing MY REWARD with me to REPAY all people according to their DEEDS."

In Ecclesiastes 12:13-14, Solomon says, "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, For this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring EVERY WORK into JUDGMENT, including EVERY SECRET THING, whether GOOD or EVIL."

What happens as the result of the Judgment Seat of Christ?

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Matthew 13:41-42).




What kind of exceptions are you talking about? What sins can Christians commit with God making an exception to it? Please provide Scripture (Along with real world examples). Thank you.



I did not make up the Commands in the Bible and the consequences that are attached in not obeying them. I did not make up repentance, either. I am only going by what God's Word says; And it makes no mention of extenuating circumstances as you suggest.


...

No, you read my posts, I could tell by your replies, no need for me to repeat them, but they are still on the thread for the viewing if you like.

I pretty well made my point with the following, so think I'll leave it at that.

I will add one more thing before I drop it. There are likely many in all Christians life, but for the sake of this argument, lets just say, what about that one sin that you didn't know was sin, or that one sin so small you just didn't consider asking forgiveness for it, or it slipped your mind, or are you going to tell me that couldn't possibly happen? Of course it could and likely has, I'll even go to the extreme of saying it HAS happened. With your way of thinking, you are going to Hell for that because God makes no acceptations. Reap what you have sown my friend, you sowed the strict rule, so certainly it will pertain to you, right? Doesn't seem like such a terrible thing to me, that probably most of the Christians on the planet that have fed the poor, done unto others and all that Jesus required of them, missed a few sins, but if God made an exception for you/them, then he'd have to do it for everyone, and we can't have that....right? So now, because of your way of thinking, most if not all the so-called saved are going to Hell, that is unless God can make some exceptions.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, you read my posts, I could tell by your replies, no need for me to repeat them, but they are still on the thread for the viewing if you like.

I pretty well made my point with the following, so think I'll leave it at that.

Well, I read your quoted post below and it leads me to believe that you think there are extenuating circumstances for a believer to die in horrible unrepentant serious sin like lying, or adultery, or murder, etc.

I essentially said before that God will not place one of His faithful ones into a situation whereby they cannot repent of their sin. For in order for a saint to keep their heart right with God after being a believer, they need to repent or confess their sin. I am not talking about minor or hidden faults. I am talking about serious sins whereby God will bring such a sin to their attention so as for them to repent of it (By convicting them by the Spirit). If that does not work, there is chastisement if they are truly one of his sons (who seeks after God's heart and in doing good) and they are not a bastard or a son of disobedience (whereby they are seeking their self and sin).

In other words, the scenario you describe (in the quoted text you provided again) does not exist for the true believer or the faithful saint. God is the giver and taker of life and He will make sure they have time to repent (with convicting them by His Spirit) before they die if they stumble.


...

 

[FireDragon76]

Jason, your view of God doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for mercy and sounds more than a bit legalistic. Almost all Christians who have lived have probably committed sins they were not aware of. If not sinning were the standard by which God judges us, we are all in big trouble.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, your view of God doesn't seem to leave a lot of room for mercy and sounds more than a bit legalistic. Almost all Christians who have lived have probably committed sins they were not aware of. If not sinning were the standard by which God judges us, we are all in big trouble.

Mercy is not for people who want to remain unchanged and in their sins (as if they are living out their old life). Mercy is for those who truly want to love God and follow His good ways. Mercy is not for someone who tell us that we should follow the good book but yet they themselves do not do what it actually says (Thereby making them hypocritical). Even if a believer lived a holy life does not mean they can be cavalier about their salvation and think they are hot stuff in regards to their standing with God. God cares about what we do NOW and in the moment of every day. It is a continual walk with God. A person can go from being holy to living unholy. A person can go from being holy to just committing one really bad sin right before they die. Anyone who does unrighteousness will not be rewarded by God or have access to the Kingdom when they die. It does not matter if they sinned a lot or sinned a little. God's grace is for those who seek to be truly born again. Not just in name only but in how their life is transformed.

As for Legalism: Well, Legalism is wrong if there is no grace or Savior involved. If one makes salvation all about law and it does not involve the Savior in any way, then there is a problem. But to say that one does not have to obey God's Laws (Whether it be a little or a lot), they are wrong. For we are forgiven on the basis that we will not sin again. For what man who has cheated on his wife who seeks true forgiveness from her will go right back out that night and or the next month to have another affair? Faithfulness is what God requires of us because that is what true faith is all about. If not, then one is deceiving themselves.

For James said, "be ye doers of the Word and not hearers only deceiving your ownselves."


...

 

[Razare]

Why would God allow His people to get away with doing evil?

Answer 1: There's no such thing as getting away with evil. There is just judgement of all sin. Sin is judged at the cross. To carnal thinking, it seems like getting away with it, but it is not. If we read scripture, we understand that when we sin as believers we do not get away with it. God sees it. God judges it at the cross.

Answer 2: In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure. - Genesis 15:16

Abraham was not given the promise land immediately, because the nations that dwelled there had not sinned enough for God to judge. God is patient. God doesn't immediately judge. He is merciful and patient, that nations and men should repent.

If God judged all sin immediately as people expect, he would have had to kill Adam dead the second he sinned, and sent him to eternal judgement. God doesn't do that!

Answer 3: If you only focus on how Christians sin and do evil, you are thinking like the devil thinks. If you're only looking at the bad, you will only find the bad.

Had you considered Isaac Newton, the father of science was a Christian? So then... all medical advancements that save lives, can be sourced back to Christianity, since applying scientific inquiry to medicine is ultimately why medicine exists.

And why did Christianity affect Isaac's thinking? Because in Christianity, we understand that God wrote divine laws and natural laws. And these laws actually correlate to reality to the point, you would go looking to see them in action!

So that God wrote a law to govern physical movement of objects, would be a byproduct of Christian-oriented thinking. And then we must also consider God gave him the wisdom.

But more than this, even today. We could look at sins in my life and boohoo how terrible I am (the devil who accuses)... or we could point to all the times God used me to help someone (eternal things that last forever).

Pessimism is not faith, and it's not good.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Answer 1: There's no such thing as getting away with evil. There is just judgement of all sin. Sin is judged at the cross. To carnal thinking, it seems like getting away with it, but it is not. If we read scripture, we understand that when we sin as believers we do not get away with it. God sees it. God judges it at the cross.

Actually, this is not true. There is going to be a Judgment of Seat of Christ and a Great White Throne Judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10) (Romans 14:10) (Revelation 20:11-15). If Jesus's sin took away the sin of the world for all time at the cross, then there would be no need for these types of Judgments. Yes, it is true. Jesus did pay the price for the sins of the world, but this only if mankind accepts His free gift of salvation by receiving Him and by continuing to abide in Him and His goodness. Also, we know that Jesus did not die for a select group of people. Revelation says that those who worship the beast do not even have their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). This means that they were never in the Lamb's book of life. A person's name would have to be in the Lamb's book if their sins were paid for in some way by Jesus.

But let's say all sin was judged for all time at the cross. Are you saying that God can no longer judge sin anymore after the cross? Are you saying that God now has placed Himself into a position whereby He has to ignore morality and or evil in this world completely? That God's hands are tied in doing good and letting evil reign without any kind of control or goodness from Him because of the cross? Surely not. God is good; And God cares about what is good and right (even today). Sure, there are trials that His people need to go thru. This is what faith is all about. For we do have to walk by faith. But for a believer to think they can do evil and expect to be rewarded with entering God's Kingdom is just not going to happen. I am sorry. It just doesn't work like. The Bible does not even remotely teach such a thing. For how on Earth can you twist Matthew 7:21, Matthew 7:26-27, and Matthew 13:41-42? For me, they are clearly saying you cannot sin with the thinking you are saved. Would not the safer play be to live righteously? Why take the chance in making God look bad by doing evil? It doesn't make any sense. Unless you think God is not concerned with morality or something. However, God is on the side of the good guys and not the bad guys. For we know the bad guys from the good guys by what they do. It's not carnal to think that morality exists and that God cares about it. Why you would think otherwise is beyond me.

Answer 2: In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure. - Genesis 15:16

Abraham was not given the promise land immediately, because the nations that dwelled there had not sinned enough for God to judge. God is patient. God doesn't immediately judge. He is merciful and patient, that nations and men should repent.

If God judged all sin immediately as people expect, he would have had to kill Adam dead the second he sinned, and sent him to eternal judgement. God doesn't do that!

Nowhere am I suggesting God kills everyone the instant they sin. I am aware that even many believers have sinned as a part of their old life. I am also aware that many believers can struggle with sin on their road to Sanctification and or in overcoming their sin in this life. It is God who truly knows a person's heart and life and if they are seeking to truly love Him and his ways vs. them loving their own lives and their sin more.

Answer 3: If you only focus on how Christians sin and do evil, you are thinking like the devil thinks. If you're only looking at the bad, you will only find the bad.

Then you must have not have read the part of the Bible where Jesus says not to look upon a woman in lust or your whole body will be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). You must have not read the part in the Bible where Jesus says if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). You must not have read the part in the Bible where Jesus says by our words we will be justified and by our words we will be condemned (Matthew 12:36-37). You must not have read the part in the Bible where John says if you hate your brother you are a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (1 John 3:15). You must have not read the part where John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). A great portion of the Bible is a warning for us not to sin and if we do, there are dire consequences to our souls (in the after life) if we do (See Matthew 13:41-42).

Had you considered Isaac Newton, the father of science was a Christian? So then... all medical advancements that save lives, can be sourced back to Christianity, since applying scientific inquiry to medicine is ultimately why medicine exists.

And why did Christianity affect Isaac's thinking? Because in Christianity, we understand that God wrote divine laws and natural laws. And these laws actually correlate to reality to the point, you would go looking to see them in action!

So that God wrote a law to govern physical movement of objects, would be a byproduct of Christian-oriented thinking. And then we must also consider God gave him the wisdom.

But more than this, even today. We could look at sins in my life and boohoo how terrible I am (the devil who accuses)... or we could point to all the times God used me to help someone (eternal things that last forever).

Pessimism is not faith, and it's not good.

Well, Jesus illustrated spiritual truth by way of real world examples. They are called parables. In fact, even a Canaanite woman had expounded upon Jesus' parable with a parable of her own; And Jesus accepted her parable because it was based in the real world and not some kind of unreality. See, no matter how much you may try, you will never be able to make a real world example or parable out of a sin and still be saved type doctrine. Life just doesn't work that way. Nor do the teachings within the Bible. God is good. He is not evil.

Oh, and pessimism is when a person only sees the negative and no positive to a situation. They offer no hope or grace or forgiveness or love to a person's sinful situation. I am teaching for a believer to trust in Jesus and His grace and to continue in His goodness. Surely this will lead them into paths of righteousness for His names sake and not into sin or doubt or negative thinking all the time. But does not the gospel in part tell us that there is bad news if we do not accept the good news? Is that not the dual edge part of the message in John 3:16? Did we not have to sin as a part of our old life (for us to see our bad) so that way we can take it to God in the first place in order to be forgiven? How can one be clean if they do not deal properly with the dirt within their life? Do we just ignore giant open wounds on our bodies or if we have a serious illnesses? No. Why would we do the same for our spiritual condition?


...

 

[ToBeLoved]

Peace be with you.

You know the Word of God. I also know the Word of God. You maybe right and I maybe wrong. But I am not in the business of arguing who is right and who is wrong. I don't desire to prove you wrong or to prove you right. I find arguing with someone to be rather unfruitful.

My philosophy on the Word of God is everyone is entitled to have their views and opinions on it. I consider it rather bad manners and highly offensive to say that someone's opinion is wrong according to the Word of God when the Word of God contains so many Fruitful Words for living a Good, Virtuous, Righteous and Holy Life.

So pardon me as I put you on ignore as I do not wish your enlightenment nor do I wish to engage with you in future conversations. It's not your fault. It's my fault. My character despises pride and folly. I am not able to follow them due to absolute repugnance of those vices.

God bless you.

Way to hold a conversation. I'll try to avoid you brother.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Actually, this is not true. There is going to be a Judgment of Seat of Christ and a Great White Throne Judgment (2 Corinthians 5:10) (Romans 14:10) (Revelation 20:11-15). If Jesus's sin took away the sin of the world for all time at the cross, then there would be no need for these types of Judgments. Yes, it is true. Jesus did pay the price for the sins of the world, but this only if mankind accepts His free gift of salvation by receiving Him and by continuing to abide in Him and His goodness. Also, we know that Jesus did not die for a select group of people. Revelation says that those who worship the beast do not even have their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). This means that they were never in the Lamb's book of life. A person's name would have to be in the Lamb's book if their sins were paid for in some way by Jesus.
...

Salvation can never be lost Jason. You are putting Jesus dying for man's sin for salvation in the same sentence as someone loosing their salvation.

You also must know Jason that there will be rewards in heaven given by God to those who have been faithful. Why are you now saying that there is no reason for Judgement? God's Word says every thing will be judged, good as well as bad. Many faithful saints will be judged very good and faithful by God. Receivng many crowns and rewards.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Then you must have not have read the part of the Bible where Jesus says not to look upon a woman in lust or your whole body will be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). You must have not read the part in the Bible where Jesus says if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15). You must not have read the part in the Bible where Jesus says by our words we will be justified and by our words we will be condemned (Matthew 12:36-37). You must not have read the part in the Bible where John says if you hate your brother you are a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them (1 John 3:15). You must have not read the part where John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8). A great portion of the Bible is a warning for us not to sin and if we do, there are dire consequences to our souls (in the after life) if we do (See Matthew 13:41-42).

How is this an answer to his question?

Are you or are you not?

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Way to hold a conversation. I'll try to avoid you brother.

Peace be with you.

Judging by the content of your post, I don't think I'll be missing much so that would be appreciated. I'm not here to sprinkle you with flowers like Angels do. Thank you.

God bless you.