Are My Parents Stagnating Their Autistic Adult Child (Me)?

[anna ~ grace]

IQ really is not indicative of much and certainly not in the mathematical aspects it tends to focus on, I've never been that capable of such things, which is also why recognizing logical fallacies and piecing exact names to them is as tricky as associating formulae and such was in school. Intelligence does not equal wisdom, playing D&D (not in a while, sadly) has solidified that in my head, along with courses in philosophy that nuance that



I've realized that, it's frustrating they cannot seem to realize such a basic notion after time passing and seemingly nothing changing, except what they choose to see. The problem is as much a disconnect in our ability to communicate, seemingly the notion that they're coddling me (which a friend has said to some degree in discussions years ago before this became more demonstrably an issue)



Factory would be beyond reasonable considerations in terms of walking, I don't think there's one nearly that close that isn't upwards of 8 miles away. Dairy Queen's oddly specific, again, far out and in an urban setting to boot. The solution does not HAVE to be that particular unless it's necessary given other limitations. I can go on social media, there's a group that I could inquire about, though I'm not sure how helpful it will be if my general limitation is a 5 mile radius



Do something is what I've been doing (incompetently as I may be in trying to endeavor as a creator for what is a gig economy), the problem is I can only do so much on my own. And my intelligence, as I pointed out, is hardly indicative of success any more than my college degree, practically speaking

But you've got to try. You've got to at least give this a shot. It's not actually about your parents, Muichi. At all. It's about you being both positive and realistic, as well as hopeful and brave, and actually making the effort to find work.

You have God-given gifts. You're bright, you're mobile, at least your legs work, you can talk, and you can think. That's awesome. Go with that.

 

[The Righterzpen]

it seems more like comorbid issues that make functioning in most jobs more difficult than many might realize, potentially even OCPD along with some other concerns I've had.

OCPD - Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. This explains why you will never become independent. And also explains why you will never be able to reason your way out of all your justifications for inaction.

Also.... If you had a job you could buy your own supplements. I know another ASD fellow; struggling as he may be. He's working hard to hold his own!

 

[bèlla]

I have no experience with the medical issues in this thread. But I know how to turn breakdowns into breakthroughs.

Situations like these foster enabling and excuses that become a comfortable rut after a while. The handwriting is on the wall. No one lives forever. And well laid plans don’t always turn out as we’d hope.

The unfortunate reality of inaction is the mess you leave behind. If it isn’t resolved his brother has to clean it up or turn his back. I couldn’t knowingly place my daughter in a compromising position or support the absence of effort in another.

If my child had the capacity to create numerous threads on a site for a religion he doesn’t practice and defend his point. He’d have to channel that in a more profitable pursuit. It would unnerve me. Tough love is the probable result.

~Bella

 

[The Righterzpen]

I hope things improve. My mum has epilepsy. They think surgery might help but she won't get it and I don't blame her. She has it quite bad but not intensely. As in, she lives with it. She has a few seizures a week most weeks and has done since she was about 11. Before that there were only a couple. She is now nearly 60 and is still 'okay'. I don't know if that is any comfort to you considering I don't know how bad your son's epilepsy is.

I think its the constant fight to stay active that keeps me healthy and the fact I have no choice but to. I have a disgruntled 17 year old, 12 year old with autism and a hyper 5 year old and no family of my own within 100's miles. lol I'm not allowed to fall apart so it is no caffeine for me and corners cut wherever I can. The thyroid meds have actually made me better than I used to be in some ways. I had dizziness nearly everyday, multiple times a day from the age of 11 until about 5 years ago. Around about the same time I received the thyroid hormone.

I shall pray for you and your son. You must have some strength and I guess that is attributable to God. I applaud you and praise Him. Keep on keeping on. One day there will be no more tears, sickness and bustle of this fast paced world we live in.

We all rely on the grace of God! That's for sure!

Thank you for your prayers. I will pray for you too.

We had our first appointment with the neuro-geneticist Monday and I'm feeling encouraged. Not that I'm expecting miraculous results. The dream that my son was going to grow up and go off to college and be happy in a great career..... well that ship sailed a long time ago.

"We've got to: burn the ships, cut the ties, send the flair into the night. Say a prayer, turn the tide, dry your tears and say goodbye."

Step into a new day!

I'm encouraged that after 1/2 a dozen neurologists - I've found one who does not talk down to me like I could not possibly know anything about epilepsy. (What could I possibly know about this kid, his behavior, what works for him and what doesn't? I'm just a mother.... with Internet access to medical journals!)

I've heard it said that not even the FBI does as good of research as a parent looking for answers!

I've come to decide this is my new favorite song:

 

[blackribbon]

I guess your option in particular is the only way to solve the problem rather than actually suggesting means of communication or otherwise conveying some notion of the VR processing, etc, which I brought up as a more immediate thing I'm considering. Cart before the horse, practically

When you judge a fish based on its ability to climb a tree, of course it's going to seem stupid versus a monkey

Can you swing a broom? Can you wipe down a toilet? Can you put boxes on a shelf based on a number written on the box? I don't think I am asking a fish to climb a tree. I think I am asking a man to actually do things he can do.

Again, without going out and looking, you don't really know what small businesses are there. Most are not national chains. My husband initially took a part-time job as "clean up boy" at a nearby machine shop. When he left, he was a trained and experience machinist. Because he showed up on time and worked hard, they trained him. However, his first job was sweeping up the shop and chasing away the rats.

This is the kind of job you actually have to walk in and ask "do you have any openings?" This isn't the kind of job that you get through want ads, or even friends.

Now, the part where I may be asking a fish to climb a tree is actually asking you to "do something" instead of just sitting there telling us why you can't do it. I think you are a fish who isn't willing to swim...and you are pretending that we are asking you to climb a tree.

This fish was willing to try what others believe is impossible and look what it can do. I doubt that it is a NT fish because a NT wouldn't even consider this something worth trying.

 

[Sam91]

@blackribbon that was a very clever comment about the NT fish not bothering. My daughter too has some ingenious out of the box solutions for things due to her way of thinking.

And wherever did you find that meme!

@muichimotsu she is correct about some of those jobs where you don't need a lot of experience being a good way to get some experience of other skills. It's always easier to find work when you are in work too.

 

[muichimotsu]

OCPD - Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. This explains why you will never become independent. And also explains why you will never be able to reason your way out of all your justifications for inaction.

Also.... If you had a job you could buy your own supplements. I know another ASD fellow; struggling as he may be. He's working hard to hold his own!

So you admit the problem is such that it's a vicious cycle and I necessarily need help, which is what I was asking for more recently?

Yes, because comparing me to someone else who may not be nearly as dysfunctional in possibly even having some generalized anxiety disorder (heck if I know at this point, I'm needing new diagnoses, which I can't afford and don't want to ask my parents either, see my comment on not wanting to be a burden as well as the masking problem)

 

[anna ~ grace]

So you admit the problem is such that it's a vicious cycle and I necessarily need help, which is what I was asking for more recently?

Yes, because comparing me to someone else who may not be nearly as dysfunctional in possibly even having some generalized anxiety disorder (heck if I know at this point, I'm needing new diagnoses, which I can't afford and don't want to ask my parents either, see my comment on not wanting to be a burden as well as the masking problem)

I don't think it's about you needing more help. I think it's about you needing more courage and self-esteem.

Getting my first job as a quasi-verbal, messed-up teenager was terrifying. But I did it. I can imagine taking that first step in your 30's would be daunting, and scary.

But I believe that you can do this. I know you're not a Christian, but one phrase which rings true here is "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!" Not that you're not still a bit apprehensive, but that with His help, you can do what you need to do.

Try this. If the weather's good, this week, try stepping out of your house, walking down to a store near by, and asking if they're hiring. Just try that. Take a first step. Get an application form, or a website address, and thank them, and go home. You took the first step! Even if you don't submit the application or don't truly want to work there, realistically, you made the effort to walk down, enter a store, and talk to people. It will get easier the more you do it.

 

[muichimotsu]

I have no experience with the medical issues in this thread. But I know how to turn breakdowns into breakthroughs.

Situations like these foster enabling and excuses that become a comfortable rut after a while. The handwriting is on the wall. No one lives forever. And well laid plans don’t always turn out as we’d hope.

The unfortunate reality of inaction is the mess you leave behind. If it isn’t resolved his brother has to clean it up or turn his back. I couldn’t knowingly place my daughter in a compromising position or support the absence of effort in another.

If my child had the capacity to create numerous threads on a site for a religion he doesn’t practice and defend his point. He’d have to channel that in a more profitable pursuit. It would unnerve me. Tough love is the probable result.

~Bella

So basically just direct the blame at my parents for enabling me? Certainly sounds like that to me, could be wrong

 

[bèlla]

So basically just direct the blame at my parents for enabling me? Certainly sounds like that to me, could be wrong

Enabling takes two. You have to ask yourself what you’re getting out of your dependency. You’re not a child or crippled to the degree where self-management is an impossible feat.

What is this serving? That’s not a conclusion anyone can make on your behalf. You have to seek the answers within you.

Siblings aren’t parents. If you’re unable to support yourself you’ll have to depend on him for help. Now you’re opening up a new can of worms. You’ll be dealing with him and his companion.

Marriages end over responsibilities for ailing parents. And you’re neither. I wouldn’t put myself at someone’s mercy if I didn’t have to.

It is one thing if you are doing what you can and he’s filling in the gap. And another if he’s doing it all. You’ll be subject to him. You don’t know what that means because you have a buffer in your parents.

God has given you a sound mind and an ability to communicate. Independence will enable to explore it in ways you can’t at present.

Use your time wisely. And remove can’t from your vocabulary.

~Bella

 

[muichimotsu]

Enabling takes two. You have to ask yourself what you’re getting out of your dependency. You’re not a child or crippled to the degree where self-management is an impossible feat.

If I'm not recognizing it immediately, it's suddenly my fault because I've been trying to enrich myself or address mental health issues that have been bubbling to the surface for over 5 years? I can't focus on multiple things at the same time nearly as easily as a NT can, that's the problem in the proposed solution

What is this serving? That’s not a conclusion anyone can make on your behalf. You have to seek the answers within you.

How very Zen of you, yet it doesn't really seem to offer anything concrete, especially when I haven't necessarily conveyed my parent's actions as accurately or precisely as I could for you to assess more objectively

Siblings aren’t parents. If you’re unable to support yourself you’ll have to depend on him for help. Now you’re opening up a new can of worms. You’ll be dealing with him and his companion.

Marriages end over responsibilities for ailing parents. And you’re neither. I wouldn’t put myself at someone’s mercy if I didn’t have to.

Realistically, I cannot just figure this out on my own without so much trial and error I'd be digging myself into a deeper hole, it's asking for help that's difficult given the communication gap I've already pointed out

God has given you a sound mind and an ability to communicate. Independence will enable to explore it in ways you can’t at present.

Use your time wisely. And remove can’t from your vocabulary.

"Sound mind" is a bit debatable given how split I feel in terms of being unable to properly balance things, not to mention anxiety, etc that I can't properly manage at the moment or understand the foundational etiology behind it.

 

[muichimotsu]

On a separate, but related, issue, I need help formulating a message of importance to my mother about going through with scheduling an appointment with Vocational Rehabilitation, including the documents we'd need.

On the one hand, I want to take responsibility and make the appointment, but on the other hand, I don't have transportation otherwise within reason, not knowing schedules of everyone, to say nothing of not knowing where all the requisite documents are for starting the process with VR for considering disability, etc, so it seems more like I'd have to leave this to my mother (yet again, because that's become the pattern now)

It's one thing to just come out and say, "I think we should go through with Vocational Rehabilitation," but I'd want to start before that qualifying some stuff

"I want to move towards more independence and think we should arrange for a meeting with the Vocational Rehabilitation office, I have the address and number for reference and have taken some steps.

But we need to cooperate in this process and I think you also need to see this video playlist where I explain my thoughts verbally rather than merely in text (playlist link here). This is for both our benefits, you have to realize I cannot remain dependent and stagnant, I need to move towards independence as an adult,"

I feel it's still lacking, but that's always going to be the case, likely, because of communication being so bad that the last time I remotely needed help, you could point out, if I explain the situation, that it was just further enabling and coddling.

 

[The Righterzpen]

So you admit the problem is such that it's a vicious cycle and I necessarily need help, which is what I was asking for more recently?

So.... you want me to admit that you need help? LOL (Yes, you need help.)

Or are you admitting that you'll never be independent?

You keep saying "I want to be independent but can't because mom and dad......(fill in the blank)....."

And now my saying - "Ahh, OCPD is the reason your both not making and can't make headway." (Your own defeatist self talk keeps you stuck.) And thus has validated what you really wanted to hear all along?

(The little engine that can't.)

So you've determined your problem really isn't Autism; it's a psychological one.

Well that's good news because if it really were an organic brain problem; there would't be a lot you could do about that and you'd basically be left to manage it.

But if it's really a problem with the way you think and not your ability to do so; that you can actually fix!

Now are you going to get the help you need to fix it; or make up more excuses as to why you can't?

 

[muichimotsu]

So.... you want me to admit that you need help? LOL (Yes, you need help.)

Or are you admitting that you'll never be independent?

You keep saying "I want to be independent but can't because mom and dad......(fill in the blank)....."

And now my saying - "Ahh, OCPD is the reason your both not making and can't make headway." (Your own defeatist self talk keeps you stuck.) And thus has validated what you really wanted to hear all along?

(The little engine that can't.)

So you've determined your problem really isn't Autism; it's a psychological one.

Well that's good news because if it really were an organic brain problem; there would't be a lot you could do about that and you'd basically be left to manage it.

But if it's really a problem with the way you think and not your ability to do so; that you can actually fix!

Now are you going to get the help you need to fix it; or make up more excuses as to why you can't?

It's not as simple as just doing it when you've brought up how the OCPD (if that is indeed the case) is hindering my ability to even engage with my parents in the first place, it's putting the cart before the horse in terms of a solution.

I want the help, you're pointing out what I have to do before addressing the fundamental issues of why I've hesitated to begin with. If it's about how I think, then focusing on that will help the process overall because I can figure out issues there and properly structure things so I won't get bogged down like I do.

 

[muichimotsu]

Can you swing a broom? Can you wipe down a toilet? Can you put boxes on a shelf based on a number written on the box? I don't think I am asking a fish to climb a tree. I think I am asking a man to actually do things he can do.

Again, without going out and looking, you don't really know what small businesses are there. Most are not national chains. My husband initially took a part-time job as "clean up boy" at a nearby machine shop. When he left, he was a trained and experience machinist. Because he showed up on time and worked hard, they trained him. However, his first job was sweeping up the shop and chasing away the rats.

This is the kind of job you actually have to walk in and ask "do you have any openings?" This isn't the kind of job that you get through want ads, or even friends.

Now, the part where I may be asking a fish to climb a tree is actually asking you to "do something" instead of just sitting there telling us why you can't do it. I think you are a fish who isn't willing to swim...and you are pretending that we are asking you to climb a tree.


This fish was willing to try what others believe is impossible and look what it can do. I doubt that it is a NT fish because a NT wouldn't even consider this something worth trying.

Did I ever claim they were going to be national chains or such, I fully admitted the contrary was the case, far as I was aware. And I can work up to that, to expect me to just do this daily and not suffer backlash in terms of exertion even if I'm in decent shape is excessive and needlessly abusive to my body instead of moderating this pursuit with prudence.

The metaphor doesn't apply when evolutionary pressures and such are what allows a mudskipper (I think?) to climb a tree versus what we generally think of as a fish (which can't do that anymore than it can breathe air or fly with its fins), to say nothing of it's an analogy to people's individual capacities based on more than just aptitude, but circumstances.

If I just go and ask if positions are open, that's different than specifying positions I'm not going to excel at (waiting tables or such are not something I think any person who knows my general aptitude would trust me with anymore than taking care of their kids, maybe their pets). So am I going to ask, "Are you hiring," versus, "Are you hiring in these positions?" Either way has potential issues, methinks, and this isn't an excuse, it's literally the same as if I point out after researching and checking things out that the economy is not doing so well, in which case what would be your next solution, theoretically?

 

[The Righterzpen]

you've brought up how the OCPD (if that is indeed the case) is hindering my ability to even engage with my parents in the first place,

How you present yourself on this forum does not match the criteria for OCPD. You present yourself here as someone who's insecure about their ability to become independent and who is making up excuses they blame on their parents for lack of forward momentum.

One of the characteristics of a person with OCPD is:
Unwillingness to yield or give responsibilities to others.
You aren't taking any responsibility for your self. Or at least this is how you present yourself on this forum. But... are you actually being a huge butt hole to your parents? If that's the case; that's a game changer.

https://iocdf.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/OCPD-Fact-Sheet.pdf

Addressing the issues with your parents is the end of the process. You are not going to be able to do that unless you yourself change first.

I want the help, you're pointing out what I have to do before addressing the fundamental issues of why I've hesitated to begin with.

"Just do it!" - Nike

What type of medical insurance do you have? If you are on Medicaid; Medicaid covers psychological services. (So do other insurances; you'd just have a copay.)

Do you have a mental health diagnosis? If you do, learn everything you can about the diagnosis and how it's treated. There are lots of resources on the Internet on how to manage psychiatric disorders. Part of your treatment plan would involve "cognitive behavioral therapy" which consists of changing how you think.

If it's about how I think, then focusing on that will help the process overall because I can figure out issues there and properly structure things so I won't get bogged down like I do.

Focusing on how you think in a constructive way in order to change that is what you need to do. You aren't doing that right now. You're only going in circles.

The way you break out of that "going in circles" pattern is by saying: I'm going to do one thing differently today than I did yesterday. Don't think about it and "Just do it". If that one thing that is different is doing your laundry, washing the dishes, going for a walk, running the vacuum cleaner, helping your mother grocery shop. These are all practice in independence tasks. The more you do them, the more you stop perseverating over "independence"; because independence is action orientated. The more you do, the more you try other things to do.

I've learned a lot of household repair tasks by watching YouTube videos. I've swapped out all the light fixtures in my house, put in a sink, installed new faucets, changed the guts in a toilet. I installed a yard full of landscape lighting last summer. That was a task that involved a bit of trial and error. But I got it done and all the landscape lighting works. I also spent the last couple of years installing gardens and pathways in my yard. I have pretty extensive gardens at this point.

One thing I've learned over the years. Sitting around thinking about something doesn't get it done!

Now do you want a good resource for helping change thought patterns and personal beliefs? Dr. Phil McGraw - Self Matters. Of any self help book I've completed the tasks in. That one was the most helpful. You can probably find it at at the library. I know I've seen copies of it at the GoodWill. That book helped me identify a lot of faulty thinking patterns.

 

[blackribbon]

Did I ever claim they were going to be national chains or such, I fully admitted the contrary was the case, far as I was aware. And I can work up to that, to expect me to just do this daily and not suffer backlash in terms of exertion even if I'm in decent shape is excessive and needlessly abusive to my body instead of moderating this pursuit with prudence.

The metaphor doesn't apply when evolutionary pressures and such are what allows a mudskipper (I think?) to climb a tree versus what we generally think of as a fish (which can't do that anymore than it can breathe air or fly with its fins), to say nothing of it's an analogy to people's individual capacities based on more than just aptitude, but circumstances.

If I just go and ask if positions are open, that's different than specifying positions I'm not going to excel at (waiting tables or such are not something I think any person who knows my general aptitude would trust me with anymore than taking care of their kids, maybe their pets). So am I going to ask, "Are you hiring," versus, "Are you hiring in these positions?" Either way has potential issues, methinks, and this isn't an excuse, it's literally the same as if I point out after researching and checking things out that the economy is not doing so well, in which case what would be your next solution, theoretically?

A mudskipper is still a "fish". I just isn't a typical fish.

And yes, you go in and simply ask if they have any jobs open. If they say "yes, but we need a certified accountant" then you know that job isn't for you and you can say "thank you, but I am not qualified for that". If it is just something that you don't know how to do and doesn't required advanced training, then admit that but be open to try. They will tell you if you can't do it up to their expectation.

I found my first job out of college by getting out the phone book in the city I wanted to live and calling every company in the category of business that I wanted to work. I did just ask if they were hiring. I had an interview by the "C"s and was hired within a week. Since you don't have a car and the freedom to go as far as I could, you need to do this via walking and in-person requests for potential jobs.

 

[muichimotsu]

How you present yourself on this forum does not match the criteria for OCPD. You present yourself here as someone who's insecure about their ability to become independent and who is making up excuses they blame on their parents for lack of forward momentum.

One of the characteristics of a person with OCPD is:
Unwillingness to yield or give responsibilities to others.
You aren't taking any responsibility for your self. Or at least this is how you present yourself on this forum. But... are you actually being a huge butt hole to your parents? If that's the case; that's a game changer.

I didn't claim the OCPD was a sure thing, I said it seemed like it was a possibility given particular traits overlapped, but I'm not certain beyond some general traits

Addressing the issues with your parents is the end of the process. You are not going to be able to do that unless you yourself change first.

So the solution would still be to do what I'm asking for advice on recently, which is breaching the subject on Vocational Rehabilitation, because that will necessarily require getting therapy and such to qualify on disability, especially if I emphasize that in terms of the need for VR not only in terms of independence and such, but addressing issues I've observed that affect my stability

What type of medical insurance do you have? If you are on Medicaid; Medicaid covers psychological services. (So do other insurances; you'd just have a copay.)

Do you have a mental health diagnosis? If you do, learn everything you can about the diagnosis and how it's treated. There are lots of resources on the Internet on how to manage psychiatric disorders. Part of your treatment plan would involve "cognitive behavioral therapy" which consists of changing how you think.

Zilch, I haven't been covered since I was 26, my state didn't expand Medicare, I can't even get basic health insurance through that, I'm basically railroaded into my state thinking that apparently I don't deserve it because I don't have the success relative to others

Only diagnosis I got recently was Aspergers and that was easily 15 years ago

Focusing on how you think in a constructive way in order to change that is what you need to do. You aren't doing that right now. You're only going in circles.

The way you break out of that "going in circles" pattern is by saying: I'm going to do one thing differently today than I did yesterday. Don't think about it and "Just do it". If that one thing that is different is doing your laundry, washing the dishes, going for a walk, running the vacuum cleaner, helping your mother grocery shop. These are all practice in independence tasks. The more you do them, the more you stop perseverating over "independence"; because independence is action orientated. The more you do, the more you try other things to do.

I can't just do something like you think I can, that's the problem is the deliberation and such, this isn't just a problem like quitting smoking or such, it's more fundamental. Independence is not solely action oriented, it's as much a status that you already admitted was on a continuum of relative independence in living conditions, etc

 

[muichimotsu]

A mudskipper is still a "fish". I just isn't a typical fish.

And yes, you go in and simply ask if they have any jobs open. If they say "yes, but we need a certified accountant" then you know that job isn't for you and you can say "thank you, but I am not qualified for that". If it is just something that you don't know how to do and doesn't required advanced training, then admit that but be open to try. They will tell you if you can't do it up to their expectation.

I found my first job out of college by getting out the phone book in the city I wanted to live and calling every company in the category of business that I wanted to work. I did just ask if they were hiring. I had an interview by the "C"s and was hired within a week. Since you don't have a car and the freedom to go as far as I could, you need to do this via walking and in-person requests for potential jobs.

And a dolphin is a mammal, just not a typical mammal

The phone book idea sounds okay, though even that may not entirely work given the scale I'm living in where anything in one major direction is farmland and businesses are concentrated a bit and then spread out again, because suburbanization and such.

The problem becomes a category of businesses for me given how general your idea seems to be at first glance

 

[The Righterzpen]

I can't just do something like you think I can,

Well, I guess no one can help you then. I'm not going to argue with you over your incapacity. Nothing I can do. Nothing anyone can do. Hope things work out for you eventually.

I'm otta this thread.