Are My Parents Stagnating Their Autistic Adult Child (Me)?

[muichimotsu]

Autism/Aspergers Forum seems to not be engaging with it (or I posted it at an inopportune time with the holidays making genuine time for such things more constrained), but I thought I'd post it here, though I would not be shocked if it could be considered problematic, the rules in terms of relevancy vary so greatly


I've talked about this on FB in a group (and maybe someone in the forums is already there, who knows?), but, being 32 years old and still living with my parents is not the disappointing part, given that the American economy is kind of crappy in regards to consumerism or such, my brother of 30 finally starting a project to build his own house that he'll move into sometime in mid-2020.

But with me, it's like I don't even matter half the time or I'm an afterthought, like my NT brother is more a priority in general and I just have to wait, because apparently trying to help me become independent is too "hard". I want to say part of the issue is the subtle ableism from Autism Speaks that is probably what my parents are more familiar with in the idea of autism being something "bad" or a "challenge" rather than neurodiversity.

And I have to wonder if others have more insight into a Christian perspective on autism, especially those that may be unintentionally damaging and ableist

Been trying to get the process of applying for disability and such through Vocational Rehabilitation started, though even that's coming into issues (because I'd rather email the counselor rather than call but their email redirects, either deactivated or changed, pretty sure I typed in the right email)

It's going to come to them learning about it at some point or another (because I'll need transportation, since the idea of me learning to drive myself is apparently not important, for one reason or another, not that they didn't try when I was 16) and I'm posting some videos regarding these issues around New Years for my family and friends to watch (or listen, the imagery isn't that important, no visual aides or such used), thought I'd post it here. And it's a playlist more than videos, but yeah, I recall I need to explain the video when posting such things

Personal Processing - YouTube

 

[Darkhorse]

Hopefully I'm not going to sound judgmental, but...are you sure that you're not stagnating yourself?

I have 2 autistic sons, and the younger one (who has Asperger's) seems totally disinterested in pursuing any interface with the world. I've been trying to get him interested in driving since he was 16 (he's 24 now), interested in pursuing possible interests which could become careers (aviation, art, graphic design, statistics), trying to get him to take a non-demanding job to become familiar with the expectations and experiences of society. He's just not interested, or if he is, he hides it very well.

All 4 of us are active Christians, and autism hasn't seemed to introduce any difficulties in belief or practice. Both boys help out in church activities.

Maybe you could offer me some advice?

 

[Sam91]

Hi, I just watched your personal processing video and what struck me was that you don't seem to say what you want to happen exactly. More that you want something to happen and others to help you to do that. There are hints but no plans. If you make a plan it will be easier to accomplish and to work it out.

I gather from the video that you've started conversations about possibly driving, made some attempt to get a job and wondering about the possibility of independent living at some point.

I get that you feel like your stagnating and starting to feel disconnected. Maybe this could be redirected into some type od inspiration.

Maybe you could get a position volunteering perhaps. This could go onto a CV or job application in future and you can use that to show potential employers what skills you have or have learned. It could be one way to reconnect and see some of that growth in your life that you want to see? It is also something that can build in some independence if it is that you are seeking.

You seem like a bright guy so don't take this post the wrong way.

 

[Sam91]

Hopefully I'm not going to sound judgmental, but...are you sure that you're not stagnating yourself?

I have 2 autistic sons, and the younger one (who has Asperger's) seems totally disinterested in pursuing any interface with the world. I've been trying to get him interested in driving since he was 16 (he's 24 now), interested in pursuing possible interests which could become careers (aviation, art, graphic design, statistics), trying to get him to take a non-demanding job to become familiar with the expectations and experiences of society. He's just not interested, or if he is, he hides it very well.

All 4 of us are active Christians, and autism hasn't seemed to introduce any difficulties in belief or practice. Both boys help out in church activities.

Maybe you could offer me some advice?

Darkhorse, what has your son said about driving. My 12yo daughter who has autism struggles to cross roads. She'll stop, look and listen, hesitate and then tries to cross when the car is coming. Maybe he is worried about his spatial processing and he might have a fair point.

Maybe you need to figure out why he doesn't want to interact with the world. I don't really blame him because this is a fast paced, lights glaring, sounds blaring world that we live in and that's without dealing with the people. Maybe he needs to rebuild up his tolerance for it if he's avoided it lately. I don't know whether I have autism or not but I know just how exhausting it is going back to college after the holidays each time. It takes a couple of weeks for me to readjust to the sensory stimulation and have exhaustion, headaches and irritability due to the lights, air conditioning and the people. Now, for someone who is diagnosed with autism I can imagine that they suffer worse with this and how tolerance might need to be rebuilt.

 

[muichimotsu]

Hopefully I'm not going to sound judgmental, but...are you sure that you're not stagnating yourself?

I have 2 autistic sons, and the younger one (who has Asperger's) seems totally disinterested in pursuing any interface with the world. I've been trying to get him interested in driving since he was 16 (he's 24 now), interested in pursuing possible interests which could become careers (aviation, art, graphic design, statistics), trying to get him to take a non-demanding job to become familiar with the expectations and experiences of society. He's just not interested, or if he is, he hides it very well.

All 4 of us are active Christians, and autism hasn't seemed to introduce any difficulties in belief or practice. Both boys help out in church activities.

Maybe you could offer me some advice?

Specifics of what advice you desire would help, that's generally how autistics would process things in my experience, not a general idea, but specific requests

I'm not saying it's one sided, I'm saying they're a contributing factor more long term in their methods being based in what I'd argue is ableist rhetoric, like I can't subsist on my own at all, I have to be treated like I'm a constant dependent, even though I'm not the "low functioning" (I hate that expression) autistic that people still sometimes associate with the spectrum as a whole. You say 2 autistic sons yet you distinguish one as Aspergers, which would suggest the other is more level 3 by modern standards (because Aspergers entails the high functioning label, equally problematic to low functioning in reducing the diagnosis to functionality by normal standards), if I'm understanding right?

Masking is also a thing, but trying to get an autistic person interested is not like with NTs. And in my case, I'm not the only one who seems to think so within my immediate family, my own brother has seemingly tried in the past to advocate that I should learn to drive, yet there's NO effort put forward to even communicate and meet in the middle slightly.

It's not always about lacking interest, but lacking self confidence, if I'm taking my experience. When the only jobs I've held were temp positions through my mother's connections (not her supervising me directly, that was already considered from the start, it was co workers who were my bosses for those periods of time) for 3-4 months at a time and I haven't had that in 2 years now, possibly because they're focusing on hiring students and such, the community at large less important for their projects when they can "conscript" students that are immediately there. I've been working at a creative endeavor as a reviewer/critic of fandom material (mostly animated films and manga, though I'm tapering down how much I release this coming year, I was nearing burnout) and yet I haven't gotten a single person to so much as throw $3 my way through Ko-Fi or subscribe on the lowest Patreon Tier I have, $1 a month

Not seeming to introduce difficulties in belief doesn't mean they aren't there or that the approaches will be different, that's a whole other discussion of whether ASD individuals are more or less inclined to religious/spiritual beliefs in the first place, I've never been that inclined (no imaginary friends, though I imagine that's potentially a general autistic thing, more introspective, not extrospective). I engaged as a skeptic with my mother as a teenager, though honestly, we've grown apart in general over the years since we moved to a new house and I feel that's 1 major factor in why there hasn't been any real progress, it's always reducing me to something of a means within whatever end she has in mind. I understand she's the parent and provides, but the problem remains when you talk at me like a dependent rather than with me as a person, an adult who has their own ambitions and is not wanting to be beholden to them forever, especially if they expect me to provide for them in their old age in any meaningful sense.

I wish the videos in the playlist could be condensed into bullet points and I could conceivably do it, but at this point, I'm focusing on calling my VR counselor for further information, still need to give the referral form itself (not that my path to getting this was necessarily the most efficient, but, no transportation of my own that's reliable means I'm stuck using the mail to send out stuff, similar to how 90% of the time I can send out my Ebay sales in the mailbox, only bigger boxes needing my parents to take it to the post office, because I'd rather not carry a 10 pound box 1.5 miles to the post office closest to my house)

 

[muichimotsu]

Darkhorse, what has your son said about driving. My 12yo daughter who has autism struggles to cross roads. She'll stop, look and listen, hesitate and then tries to cross when the car is coming. Maybe he is worried about his spatial processing and he might have a fair point.

Maybe you need to figure out why he doesn't want to interact with the world. I don't really blame him because this is a fast paced, lights glaring, sounds blaring world that we live in and that's without dealing with the people. Maybe he needs to rebuild up his tolerance for it if he's avoided it lately. I don't know whether I have autism or not but I know just how exhausting it is going back to college after the holidays each time. It takes a couple of weeks for me to readjust to the sensory stimulation and have exhaustion, headaches and irratability due to the lights, air conditioning and the people. Now, for someone who is diagnosed with autism I can imagine that they suffer worse with this and how tolerance might need to be rebuilt.

I can attest that yeah, driving is not made appealing from my experiences in general over my teenage and young adult years, needlessly stressful and moreso for autistic individuals with sensory processing problems.

Also, yeah, social exhaustion is a thing for me, especially when I was basically running in 6 hours of sleep for 7 1/2 hours of socializing, though 2 1/2 of that was just watching Star Wars RoS, not as bad for the sensory processing issues I can have, but then it was a house full of people and kids, generally just an annoyance, even my grandmother, who I feel for (double widower now) trying to connect with me in some sense. She has an excuse, she's got a bad hip and such, I'm unable to reasonably visit her even quarterly if I planned it out because my parents haven't seemingly encouraged even some basic driving practice (outside help is apparently just something we don't want, though I'm more than willing to accept it, maybe I'm the "crazy" one)

 

[muichimotsu]

Hi, I just watched your personal processing video and what struck me was that you don't seem to say what you want to happen exactly. More that you want something to happen and others to help you to do that. There are hints but no plans. If you make a plan it will be easier to accomplish and to work it out.

I gather from the video that you've started conversations about possibly driving, made some attempt to get a job and wondering about the possibility of independent living at some point.


You seem like a bright guy so don't take this post the wrong way.

I'm not, it's fine. You sure you watched all 3 or just the first? Maybe you just phrased it wrong?

The problem is as much the enumeration of specific points in a way that is realistic in my perspective, but that can backfire in what I think is realistic. I have a list of 5 major points, though the order may be a bit mixed in what should be a priority versus my rough assessment

1. Disability Application (working through that, though THAT could take years potentially, it's a nightmare from what little I've heard from friends)

2. State ID/Driving Practice/Driver’s License

3. Part Time Job Opportunities/Volunteering

4. Therapy

5. Communication/Mediation

I get that you feel like your stagnating and starting to feel disconnected. Maybe this could be redirected into some type od inspiration.

Maybe you could get a position volunteering perhaps. This could go onto a CV or job application in future and you can use that to show potential employers what skills you have or have learned. It could be one way to reconnect and see some of that growth in your life that you want to see? It is also something that can build in some independence if it is that you are seeking.

Volunteering has been suggested (among other job ideas that seem to generalize me without considering what my capacities are, like a bookstore employee, which has social aspects I don't think would play to my strengths, which is also why I've never worked the front desk when I worked at my alma mater's library, I always did behind the scenes stuff, shelving, sorting, etc.) and I wouldn't mind socializing cats, they're far more tolerable overall than people, misanthropic as that sounds (all the disgusting sounds we can make, something I noted in a nicer way in the videos about misophonia and such)

I've put in applications occasionally, though now I've been focusing on Patreon/Kofi, general creative endeavors to get some kind of income there, which would also be a motivation in self esteem slightly (not that I'm lacking it, but it's starting to feel like I'm the only one who wants legitimate change and everyone else is holding me back because they want to spare my feelings or such, based on what may be ableist tendencies they're not aware of).

I have a resume, haven't updated in months, but there's rarely much to update and even at this point, I'm spreading myself thinner (which is in part because I literally have 2 areas in the house, which is entirely different than what I'm used to and my bedroom is filled with crap that I'm trying to declutter, but can't, because executive dysfunction, like how I couldn't bring myself to get up because I was afraid I'd actually have to talk about the videos, which my parents haven't watched yet, though it's understandable with starting work again today)

 

[Sam91]

I'm not, it's fine. You sure you watched all 3 or just the first? Maybe you just phrased it wrong?

The problem is as much the enumeration of specific points in a way that is realistic in my perspective, but that can backfire in what I think is realistic. I have a list of 5 major points, though the order may be a bit mixed in what should be a priority versus my rough assessment

1. Disability Application (working through that, though THAT could take years potentially, it's a nightmare from what little I've heard from friends)

2. State ID/Driving Practice/Driver’s License

3. Part Time Job Opportunities/Volunteering

4. Therapy

5. Communication/Mediation




Volunteering has been suggested (among other job ideas that seem to generalize me without considering what my capacities are, like a bookstore employee, which has social aspects I don't think would play to my strengths, which is also why I've never worked the front desk when I worked at my alma mater's library, I always did behind the scenes stuff, shelving, sorting, etc.) and I wouldn't mind socializing cats, they're far more tolerable overall than people, misanthropic as that sounds (all the disgusting sounds we can make, something I noted in a nicer way in the videos about misophonia and such)

I've put in applications occasionally, though now I've been focusing on Patreon/Kofi, general creative endeavors to get some kind of income there, which would also be a motivation in self esteem slightly (not that I'm lacking it, but it's starting to feel like I'm the only one who wants legitimate change and everyone else is holding me back because they want to spare my feelings or such, based on what may be ableist tendencies they're not aware of).

I have a resume, haven't updated in months, but there's rarely much to update and even at this point, I'm spreading myself thinner (which is in part because I literally have 2 areas in the house, which is entirely different than what I'm used to and my bedroom is filled with crap that I'm trying to declutter, but can't, because executive dysfunction, like how I couldn't bring myself to get up because I was afraid I'd actually have to talk about the videos, which my parents haven't watched yet, though it's understandable with starting work again today)

I just watched the one at the top of the list. It was hard to follow for me because it is 2.30am here in the UK.

When people give u vague or general suggestions do you think it is so that you can decide what would appeal to you?

It is quite hard to find work in the UK just now. I don't know what it is like in the US. When I volunteered, I found it soon became my high point of the week. I helped out at a free cafe for people struggling with homelessness and addiction and at first hid in the kitchen. Eventually, I began serving people and became better at communicating with them. The social chit chat was easier because I was in a role. It meant that a lot of the conversation was based around what they wanted etc and it grew from there. If I felt uncomfortable, or pressured I'd just go back into the kitchen. That's the benefit of volunteering hehe.

How are people holding you back? By deferring help because they are busy? I saw that slightly in your video. Could you turn that into an advantage by using it to gain independence in your planning and use people instead as consultants. For example, when you need advice on the best way to go about one step in your plan hone it down into a question that shouldn't need to much explanation and ask while they're available. Google can answer a lot too.

If there is any communication difficulties, it is on my side. It's very late and I'm sleepy. You seem to express yourself well via written (typed) language. Good night

 

[blackribbon]

What are you doing for yourself? Do you have your learner's permit? That is something you should be preparing for yourself, if not. Study, get prepared, then talk to your parents about the cost and a ride to the driver's license office when you are ready, if you need that help. Even better, do this on your own to show your parents that you are interested in driving.

I was one of the people who got to take my asperger brother to practice driving in high school. He was seldom available when I was available and offered to take him. When I was learning to drive, I'd have dropped anything for my practice time. I found this frustrating and disrespectful that he thought i should help him when he was ready, and not when I had time.

He also was horribly frustrating to drive with. We had to back out of the driveway 3 or 4 times, because he refused to turn and look with his head and thought he could do it with his mirrors only. (you can't) He had no awareness about what was going on around him when driving...and he wouldn't even look left or right when stopping at a stop sign or driving through an intersection. And then he got mad at me when I corrected him (what I am supposed to be doing when I am his legal driver riding along). Needless to say, he didn't get his license at 16.

When my husband died, I wanted to give him one of the car I had so he wouldn't be as dependent on me for rides (mostly he walked and rode the bus). I had no desire to ride with him especially when I remembered what it was like to ride with him years before. Instead, he studied on his own and got his learner's permit and hired a driving school to give him lessons. They came to our house and provided the car. It wasn't cheap but I believe my mom helped him with the expense. After they said he was ready to drive, THEN I let him drive my car and rode with him to give him practice in the area he would test at. He still worried me because of his lack of awareness of his surroundings and his tendency to space out in his thoughts. However, he showed interest in wanting to drive so I was more willing to inconvenience myself. He now drives. He still isn't a great driver but he drives. He also totaled the car I gave him and has had to buy a new car.

All that to say, are you showing interest in driving...not just saying it but doing it. Do you have your permit? Are you studying the rules beyond what it takes to get a permit? Are you paying attention to the things a person has to pay attention to when driving...when you are the passenger (ie...looking at the traffic and surroundings and asking about things you don't understand)?

As for the rest, if your older brother is still at home, it would make sense that they would be focusing on him first. It may simply be that they don't have the time, finances, or energy to help two of their little birdies fly away from the nest at the same time. In the meantime, you need to be doing what you can on your own. Getting disability is not likely going to be enough for you to live independently. Maybe you should be trying to get a job instead. There are jobs that don't require you to be social. Can the people at your vocational rehab help you look for possibilities?

 

[muichimotsu]

I just watched the one at the top of the list. It was hard to follow for me because it is 2.30am here in the UK.

When people give u vague or general suggestions do you think it is so that you can decide what would appeal to you?

Vagueness is the worst thing for an autistic person, because they don't interpret it as NT's would expect and thus it just further muddies communication. It's the same with conversations of a philosophical nature, words can vary in meaning

It is quite hard to find work in the UK just now. I don't know what it is like in the US. When I volunteered, I found it soon became my high point of the week. I helped out at a free cafe for people struggling with homelessness and addiction and at first hid in the kitchen. Eventually, I began serving people and became better at communicating with them. The social chit chat was easier because I was in a role. It meant that a lot of the conversation was based around what they wanted etc and it grew from there. If I felt uncomfortable, or pressured I'd just go back into the kitchen. That's the benefit of volunteering hehe.

The difficulty is location, I'm not really within reasonable walking distance to most locations (and we don't have sidewalks until about a mile or so from my house, practically), so it's not as easy as if I were in a more urban location (though that has its own issues too)

How are people holding you back? By deferring help because they are busy? I saw that slightly in your video. Could you turn that into an advantage by using it to gain independence in your planning and use people instead as consultants. For example, when you need advice on the best way to go about one step in your plan hone it down into a question that shouldn't need to much explanation and ask while they're available. Google can answer a lot too.

Deferring help would entail they actually want help for me rather than just expecting me to do it on my own when I don't have the freedoms they do in mobility, etc, it's utterly contradictory.

It'd be one thing to ask that if I had even the basic mobility and freedoms a young adult my age would long already have (my friends are genuinely concerned, though some I haven't talked with in a while, but me carpooling, while efficient, keeps emphasizing that I can't keep this up indefinitely)

If there is any communication difficulties, it is on my side. It's very late and I'm sleepy. You seem to express yourself well via written (typed) language. Good night

Just take your time to watch the other 2, they're arguably important in enumerating the points you want, though as to efficiency, I can't say for certain

 

[muichimotsu]

What are you doing for yourself? Do you have your learner's permit? That is something you should be preparing for yourself, if not. Study, get prepared, then talk to your parents about the cost and a ride to the driver's license office when you are ready, if you need that help. Even better, do this on your own to show your parents that you are interested in driving.

I got learner's permit over 10 years ago, but then it just stagnated to nothing, as if it wasn't even a slight priority, for whatever reasons

I can't be ready for the test when I haven't driven in a vehicle in over a decade, practically, that's kind of essential in terms of the later aspects. Even if I knew the written test backwards and forwards, that's only half of the test at best

I was one of the people who got to take my asperger brother to practice driving in high school. He was seldom available when I was available and offered to take him. When I was learning to drive, I'd have dropped anything for my practice time. I found this frustrating and disrespectful that he thought i should help him when he was ready, and not when I had time.

He also was horribly frustrating to drive with. We had to back out of the driveway 3 or 4 times, because he refused to turn and look with his head and thought he could do it with his mirrors only. (you can't) He had no awareness about what was going on around him when driving...and he wouldn't even look left or right when stopping at a stop sign or driving through an intersection. And then he got mad at me when I corrected him (what I am supposed to be doing when I am his legal driver riding along). Needless to say, he didn't get his license at 16.

When my husband died, I wanted to give him one of the car I had so he wouldn't be as dependent on me for rides (mostly he walked and rode the bus). I had no desire to ride with him especially when I remembered what it was like to ride with him years before. Instead, he studied on his own and got his learner's permit and hired a driving school to give him lessons. They came to our house and provided the car. It wasn't cheap but I believe my mom helped him with the expense. After they said he was ready to drive, THEN I let him drive my car and rode with him to give him practice in the area he would test at. He still worried me because of his lack of awareness of his surroundings and his tendency to space out in his thoughts. However, he showed interest in wanting to drive so I was more willing to inconvenience myself. He now drives. He still isn't a great driver but he drives. He also totaled the car I gave him and has had to buy a new car.

They tried the driving school, it didn't last long ultimately (and we had bad luck, because there might've been some illegal stuff going on in the background, so they're probably a little hesitant to try something like that again after that)

All that to say, are you showing interest in driving...not just saying it but doing it. Do you have your permit? Are you studying the rules beyond what it takes to get a permit? Are you paying attention to the things a person has to pay attention to when driving...when you are the passenger (ie...looking at the traffic and surroundings and asking about things you don't understand)?

Like I brought up elsewhere, it's not exactly the same process when you're talking about how an ASD individual processes things. The focus becomes such that even getting advice from others can become difficulty because you can't split your focus between the two so easily.

As for the rest, if your older brother is still at home, it would make sense that they would be focusing on him first. It may simply be that they don't have the time, finances, or energy to help two of their little birdies fly away from the nest at the same time. In the meantime, you need to be doing what you can on your own. Getting disability is not likely going to be enough for you to live independently. Maybe you should be trying to get a job instead. There are jobs that don't require you to be social. Can the people at your vocational rehab help you look for possibilities?

Again, my allegations of ableism for them seem partly valid if they're basically not bothering to put in the effort when it comes to a child they can't relate to as easily. It's hardly something to make an excuse for, it's something to condemn because they aren't even making an effort, they've left me to my own devices and expect me to just progress by some other notion (God provides?)

I don't expect to live independently on disability, especially if I'm determined probably 25-40% disabled at the most (not even sure how they determine it, but I hadn't even heard that aspect of it until an acquaintance brought it up for their own disability assessment they finished last year), but it's something to keep saved up

I'd have to talk to them, I'm trying tomorrow afternoon, they still need to talk about details before we move onto the assessment and vocational rehabilitation stuff, since I didn't mention my autism in my first email to them, so of course they're going to be confused about various things

 

[blackribbon]

I just watched one of your videos.

What are you doing on your own to become independent? Living somewhere else isn't independent if they are paying the bills for you. And if you are becoming more of a hermit, it would be dangerous for you to live independently.

To be independent means having a job so you can pay your bills. It means being able to manage your money. It means being able to cook. It means being able to do your laundry and clean a house. It means being able to exist during the day and interact with people at the grocery store, the electric company, and other public domains. Can you do these things? Do you demonstrate by doing your own laundry now? Do you volunteer to cook meals for the family? Do you help with the household cleaning? Can you shop off a list for groceries? And disconnecting from the normal social interactions within a family isn't the best way to demonstrate that you are ready or even wanting to become "independent" from them. These are not things they should be asking you about, but rather you should be practicing and asking them about... It isn't the job of your parents to help you become independent. The act of independence is showing that you don't need them to hold your hand and that you are willing to take the lead....because that IS what independence is. Can you understand that?

 

[muichimotsu]

I just watched one of your videos.

What are you doing on your own to become independent? Living somewhere else isn't independent if they are paying the bills for you. And if you are becoming more of a hermit, it would be dangerous for you to live independently.

To be independent means having a job so you can pay your bills. It means being able to manage your money. It means being able to cook. It means being able to do your laundry and clean a house. It means being able to exist during the day and interact with people at the grocery store, the electric company, and other public domains. Can you do these things? Do you demonstrate by doing your own laundry now? Do you volunteer to cook meals for the family? Do you help with the household cleaning? Can you shop off a list for groceries? And disconnecting from the normal social interactions within a family isn't the best way to demonstrate that you are ready or even wanting to become "independent" from them. These are not things they should be asking you about, but rather you should be practicing and asking them about... It isn't the job of your parents to help you become independent. The act of independence is showing that you don't need them to hold your hand and that you are willing to take the lead....because that IS what independence is. Can you understand that?

I didn't claim I was sufficiently prepared for independence and I'm not above acknowledging those issues

I do my own laundry, I could reasonably shop off a list, it's not like I'm as bad off as one could mistakenly interpret, but again, specificity is not always communicable when you have a conditioned response to share as little as possible to not inconvenience people, as I find myself having had for over a decade now.

The disconnect is because they're doing the same in not engaging with me in any meaningful fashion except as I'm some item to use in social situations. It's not all me, it's as much their responsibility in thinking I can just adjust like NTs can, which you're also implying to an extent. If I don't even know the full extent of my problems without further therapy, you're making a recipe for utter psychotic breakdown because I can't even stand being in the same house as people who mistakenly think I'm fine "because I have my headphones" on, but I'm not because I can still hear even past white noise, it's debilitating in how I have to shut myself off to function, but you can't expect me to just function otherwise, it's ableist tripe

Independence and cooperation are not mutually exclusive, there necessarily has to be input from both sides in terms of moving towards a new state of things, it's not condescending to one side and thinking you know better and there's no reason for someone to have problems (ableist assumptions) because you see some success story on the news with little context

I can't take the steps when they refuse to acknowledge any problem is happening or even consider some problem, though it's not as if I'm able to communicate as well, I mask problems and they assume everything's perfectly fine because they're so used to not engaging with me in the first place in a way that's not NT patronizing.

 

[blackribbon]

How often have you actually asked your parents to go driving with you since you had your permit? Does your brother drive? Can he ride with if your parents can't? I find I am more patient with my brother than my mom can be.

Also, how far is too far too walk? My brother used to walk a lot and long distances. I think he walked home several miles after work since the buses had stopped running then. He had time...so no real loss there. How about a bicycle? And how far do you have to get to get public transportation?

 

[muichimotsu]

How often have you actually asked your parents to go driving with you since you had your permit? Does your brother drive? Can he ride with if your parents can't? I find I am more patient with my brother than my mom can be.

Also, how far is too far too walk? My brother used to walk a lot and long distances. I think he walked home several miles after work since the buses had stopped running then. He had time...so no real loss there. How about a bicycle? And how far do you have to get to get public transportation?

I rarely ask, but I didn't have the necessity to really have that skill until later and they've seemingly just gotten used to it, seemingly in no small part because they think driving would be too much of a stress (not that I'm certain this is the reason, they don't even include me in a conversation slightly, which would be appreciated)

Our schedules are so out of sync, pretty sure none of them could give me the instructions as they would want to, even if I was awake during the day, because they work

Public transport isn't really a thing in my area, far as I know, unless you're a senior and literally need it to reasonably have such mobility, but not just for anyone, it's fairly rural, can't even think of the closest place that isn't probably 50+ miles away where anything like public transport would be and even that's not guaranteed until bigger metro areas. And going to the other major area with potential jobs necessarily requires a car, it's a road up a mountain, not really bikeable without major training

 

[blackribbon]

I didn't claim I was sufficiently prepared for independence and I'm not above acknowledging those issues

I do my own laundry, I could reasonably shop off a list, it's not like I'm as bad off as one could mistakenly interpret, but again, specificity is not always communicable when you have a conditioned response to share as little as possible to not inconvenience people, as I find myself having had for over a decade now.

The disconnect is because they're doing the same in not engaging with me in any meaningful fashion except as I'm some item to use in social situations. It's not all me, it's as much their responsibility in thinking I can just adjust like NTs can, which you're also implying to an extent. If I don't even know the full extent of my problems without further therapy, you're making a recipe for utter psychotic breakdown because I can't even stand being in the same house as people who mistakenly think I'm fine "because I have my headphones" on, but I'm not because I can still hear even past white noise, it's debilitating in how I have to shut myself off to function, but you can't expect me to just function otherwise, it's ableist tripe

Independence and cooperation are not mutually exclusive, there necessarily has to be input from both sides in terms of moving towards a new state of things, it's not condescending to one side and thinking you know better and there's no reason for someone to have problems (ableist assumptions) because you see some success story on the news with little context

I can't take the steps when they refuse to acknowledge any problem is happening or even consider some problem, though it's not as if I'm able to communicate as well, I mask problems and they assume everything's perfectly fine because they're so used to not engaging with me in the first place in a way that's not NT patronizing.

You said you need specifics. I am giving you specifics. The things i listed are things that everyone who lives independently needs to be able to do. Society won't change to fit you in. No, it isn't fair but the reality is, if you want to be independent, you have to decide to find a way to function in the world as it is. I never said it was easy. Yes, it will be harder for you...but your parents can't make it easier (I promise, they would have a long time ago if they had that power). It is up to you to learn how to function in a NT world because that is the only option out there.

I am not being mean. I am being truthful. And it can be done. Or are you saying it can't be done...then there is nothing your parents can do that would be different. Your parent's can't get you a job. You have to do it. Your parent's shouldn't have to pay their mortgage and your rent and bills. Those are things you need to be able to pay if you want to leave home.

 

[blackribbon]

I rarely ask, but I didn't have the necessity to really have that skill until later and they've seemingly just gotten used to it, seemingly in no small part because they think driving would be too much of a stress (not that I'm certain this is the reason, they don't even include me in a conversation slightly, which would be appreciated)

Our schedules are so out of sync, pretty sure none of them could give me the instructions as they would want to, even if I was awake during the day, because they work

Public transport isn't really a thing in my area, far as I know, unless you're a senior and literally need it to reasonably have such mobility, but not just for anyone, it's fairly rural, can't even think of the closest place that isn't probably 50+ miles away where anything like public transport would be and even that's not guaranteed until bigger metro areas. And going to the other major area with potential jobs necessarily requires a car, it's a road up a mountain, not really bikeable without major training

How are your parent's holding you back? You are a grown man and yet are not taking responsibility for getting the things you want. What do you want them doing that they aren't doing? Specifics...like you say you function best in. What do you want from your parents?

 

[muichimotsu]

You said you need specifics. I am giving you specifics. The things i listed are things that everyone who lives independently needs to be able to do. Society won't change to fit you in. No, it isn't fair but the reality is, if you want to be independent, you have to decide to find a way to function in the world as it is. I never said it was easy. Yes, it will be harder for you...but your parents can't make it easier (I promise, they would have a long time ago if they had that power). It is up to you to learn how to function in a NT world because that is the only option out there.

I am not being mean. I am being truthful. And it can be done. Or are you saying it can't be done...then there is nothing your parents can do that would be different. Your parent's can't get you a job. You have to do it. Your parent's shouldn't have to pay their mortgage and your rent and bills. Those are things you need to be able to pay if you want to leave home.

They can make it easier in terms of understanding that there can be difficulties and find some manner to approach it rather than just assuming I can adjust like others, which is more ableism. The world can change, it's going to be gradual, not sudden

If all you advocate is the same thing, there's not much going for it beyond conformity and effectively masking to seem normal when that's more damaging that trying to be functional in a way someone might not find normal from a NT position

~~~


When the jobs are such that I NEED the transport they refuse to even consider I might need, then it's cart before the horse, I can't do anything with it, the exercise is futile

They have more means than I do, it's their disregard for me as an individual in terms of making any kind of sacrifice towards that which is the problem, as if communication is going to be so implicit rather than requiring precision

I'm not expecting that at all, I'm expecting some enabling towards the independence rather than just being passive and expecting God to sort it out or other such nonsense that's laziness of the highest order.

 

[muichimotsu]

How are your parent's holding you back? You are a grown man and yet are not taking responsibility for getting the things you want. What do you want them doing that they aren't doing? Specifics...like you say you function best in. What do you want from your parents?

When the world is such that me trying to do that is not so simple as for NTs, it's not as if me taking responsibility will matter when the deck is stacked against me.

I want them to actually engage with me even somewhat as a person instead of just as an afterthought in their "complicated" lives. I can't verbalize this even in words because I have practically subdued my emotions to a point I barely acknowledge them in terms of realistic things, which is why therapy is also on my list of priorities

If they think things are fine, they could tell me, I can't just read between the lines and assume it absolutely, but it sure seems like they don't care about me in any meaningful sense, just as a burden to tell what to do so they don't look socially inappropriate (oh, no, the house is messy, it's not fully my fault, you expect the solutions to just happen and decide to tell me to adjust my sleep schedule 1 night before something instead of somewhat further ahead than that so I'm not running on less than ideal sleep)

 

[blackribbon]

I understand more than you realize. My mother wanted me to help my brother get on disability. Instead I helped him get a job. I handed him bus maps. I gave him advice on how to function when he got frustrated. I kicked him in the butt when he needed it. Guess what. You aren't the only one with problems. NT has problems too. You are lucky enough to have parents who give a damn about you and have given you a place to live as an adult. If you want to be independent, then take control. If you want to be coddled, then accept that you can't be both.