Are Modalists (Oneness Pentecostals) saved?

[MoreCoffee]

Onenesss Pentecostalism gives me the willies.... The people I knew in this movement totally creeped me out. But, hey, tis the season for that! Yes, they spoke in tongues, but deep down I cold not sense the inner warmth that made for a genuine love, goodness, and Christian character. And I am always leery of special revelations that were lost since the apostles, that one needs to embrace to make it into heaven.

I could not agree more about "lost truth" that gets revived by means of a "special revelation". If it is apostolic then it ought to be evident in some form and in some degree in the church's history from as far back as the apostolic age.

 

[Lion King]

Paul did the same thing "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ... But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

That ain't the same thing. Paul merely reinforced what has always been spoken in the Scriptures; if any man does not have the Holy-Spirit, they are not children of God. Knee-v, however, made the declaration that the Oneness church is not part of God's flock and does not follow the true Messiah, because of their heresy regarding the nature of God.

Does claiming that God and Jesus Christ are one and the same damn the Oneness church?

 

[Rev Randy]

What exactly is that plank, Lion King?

The point was the EO view of hell. Somehow that bothers LK.

 

[Stealth001]

I think the legalism among Oneness Pentecostals is more damning than their views about God. I mean... even the Trinity is a "mystery" to Trinitarians. No one really has God all figured out.

 

[Rev Randy]

I could not agree more about "lost truth" that gets revived by means of a "special revelation". If it is apostolic then it ought to be evident in some form and in some degree in the church's history from as far back as the apostolic age.

One would think. But one would be wrong as it doesn't look to the apostles at all.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

If you're not worshiping the Trinity, you're worshiping a different God. And if you're not worshiping the Trinity, you're not in communion with the Trinity. If worshiping a different God and not being in communion with the Trinity don't count as damnable, what does?

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I think the legalism among Oneness Pentecostals is more damning than their views about God. I mean... even the Trinity is a "mystery" to Trinitarians. No one really has God all figured out.

That's not what classic Trinitarians mean by mystery, though. It means a doctrine that is believed without full understanding, but which can be embraced without full understanding, and which may be searched out. It's similar to the Eastern Orthodox use of "mystery" for sacraments: human language and created elements pointing the way (like a "clue" in a mystery) to a full and real reality beyond.

And in any case, it's not their views about God that are the problem. I'm sure people who believe God's omniscience and foreknowledge consists in knowing a future which has not yet occurred are going to heaven, even though I believe that God's omniscience and foreknowledge consists in immediate apprehension of a future in which he simultaneously exists with the present, unbounded by time. That's a "view" about God.

The problem is that they are worshiping a false image of their creator. The Trinity is not subborndinate to monotheism, but is rather Christianity's basic assertion about God even before monotheism. And it is fundamental to God's own self-revelation of himself. It's not a theory; it's the basis of God's action in human history, and thus our salvation. Therefore, however strongly Oneness Pentecostals protest that they believe in Jesus, their belief in Jesus is no more remarkable than belief in Jesus by Jehovahs' Witnesses, Mormons, or Muslims. They are outside the Triune community, and therefore outside the salvation of the Triune God.

 

[Rev Randy]

If you're not worshiping the Trinity, you're worshiping a different God. And if you're not worshiping the Trinity, you're not in communion with the Trinity. If worshiping a different God and not being in communion with the Trinity don't count as damnable, what does?

i'm not conviced of the first part so i can't answer the second. Is this a completely different god or is it an improper view of God?

Please don't read this wrong. I am not saying it's right in any shape of form. Without a doubt it would be excommunication to deny the Trinity. Without a doubt unorthodox. I'm just not sure this is idolatry. But I admit I may be wrong.

 

[Optimax]

Anyone can be saved.

IF:

They do this.

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
KJV

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Interesting. I wonder if one doesn't believe the Bible or the ideas/facts it presents how they can possibly be saved.

Well it's deeper than an intellectual assent . it's something God has to do within you . so those who came before "the bible" that we know today don't have to worry from their place in the cloud of witnesses .

What present truth? Whatever the Apostles taught wasn't the same as what the Jews held for centuries.

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12

 

[Lion King]

If you're not worshiping the Trinity, you're worshiping a different God. And if you're not worshiping the Trinity, you're not in communion with the Trinity. If worshiping a different God and not being in communion with the Trinity don't count as damnable, what does?

Therefore, however strongly Oneness Pentecostals protest that they believe in Jesus, their belief in Jesus is no more remarkable than belief in Jesus by Jehovahs' Witnesses, Mormons, or Muslims. They are outside the Triune community, and therefore outside the salvation of the Triune God.

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 1 John 4:7

I respectfully disagree. Love and faith has always been requirement for salvation and not our knowledge of the Trinity. Sure, you can be the foremost expert in the doctrine of the Trinity and all there is to know about it, but if you lack love, you will not be saved. As long as members of the Oneness church continue to love another, it is my opinion, that they will be saved. The Scriptures do say that mercy will be shown to merciful and that love covers a multitude of sins, after all.

 

[Optimax]

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 1 John 4:7

I respectfully disagree. Love and faith has always been requirement for salvation and not our knowledge of the Trinity. As long as members of the Oneness church continue to love another, it is my opinion, that they will be saved. The Scriptures do say that mercy will be shown to merciful and that loves covers a multitude of sins, after all.

Love is not a requirement to be saved.

Love is a fruit of the born again person.

That love is only possible after a person is saved.

Gal 5:22
But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NLT

 

[Lion King]

Love is not a requirement to be saved.

Love is a fruit of the born again person.

That love is only possible after a person is saved.

Gal 5:22
But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NLT

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” Luke 10:25-28


Jesus told me if I love others, I will live. You know what? I believe Him.

PS. I don't look at the Scriptures from a single POV.

 

[Knee V]

That ain't the same thing. Paul merely reinforced what has always been spoken in the Scriptures; if any man does not have the Holy-Spirit, they are not children of God. Knee-v, however, made the declaration that the Oneness church is not part of God's flock and does not follow the true Messiah, because of their heresy regarding the nature of God.

Does claiming that God and Jesus Christ are one and the same damn the Oneness church?

Perhaps you missed what I said in reply #104.

 

[Frogster]

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” Luke 10:25-28


Jesus told me if I love others, I will live. You know what? I believe Him.

PS. I don't look at the Scriptures from a single POV.

you just posted one pov, no one is saved by law, that goes against all NT theology. The rich young ruler did the law, and he was not saved...


if your right, the law guy did not need the cross..


Gal 2:21, his death woul;d be needless.


Lets try to see, that when talking to the pharisees, Jesus was trying to show how they were not even doing the law, John 7:19 confirms that.

They did not "do this'...

alrighty now...

 

[Frogster]

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 1 John 4:7

I respectfully disagree. Love and faith has always been requirement for salvation and not our knowledge of the Trinity. Sure, you can be the foremost expert in the doctrine of the Trinity and all there is to know about it, but if you lack love, you will not be saved. As long as members of the Oneness church continue to love another, it is my opinion, that they will be saved. The Scriptures do say that mercy will be shown to merciful and that love covers a multitude of sins, after all.

love is not a requirement for salvation, Christ died for the ungodly, rom 5, and rom 4, justifies the ungodly, it does not say justifies the loving. That shows the unloving condition, that needed God.

 

[Lion King]

Perhaps you missed what I said in reply #104.

Only going with what you said in your very first post in this thread.

I cannot speak to any particular person or group being "saved", as if I know what God does or does not do with His own mercy. However, the God that Christ revealed to us is the Trinity. Any other God is a different God and a different Christ. So whatever they are, and however God works His grace with them, they are certainly not Christians, any more than Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons are.

Ring any bell?

not Christian = don't belong to Christ.

 

[Knee V]

Only going with what you said in your very first post in this thread.




Ring any bell?

not Christian = don't belong to Christ.

I have been very clear on my stance. If you choose to continue to twist people's words and misrepresent them, then I won't have much more to discuss here. You're free to think people are saying whatever you want them to be saying, I suppose.

 

[Lion King]

I have been very clear on my stance. If you choose to continue to twist people's words and misrepresent them, then I won't have much more to discuss here. You're free to think people are saying whatever you want them to be saying, I suppose.

Didn't you say the Oneness members are not Christians with your very first post? Yes or No?

 

[By Faith Alone]

Love is not a requirement to be saved.

Love is a fruit of the born again person.

That love is only possible after a person is saved.

Gal 5:22
But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NLT

THAT...is the correct way to study. Pre-Cross and post-Cross examination IS the seed of the fruit of understanding.