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Featured ARE GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ABOLISHED?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LoveGodsWord, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. corinth77777

    corinth77777 learner

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    Maybe you misunderstood my point...

    Even though they were without the law...meaning they were not God's chosen,that doesn't mean that the law was still not a tutor for them. FOR WE ALL are counted under sin.
    I believe they knew they were without the law.......
    Culture
    The fact merely that they were without the law ...means the law was a tutor....

    Think about the Gentile woman who came to Jesus......What did she say? Even the dogs eat crumbs ...something like that
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  2. expos4ever

    expos4ever Well-Known Member

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    I politely suggest that some here are taking extreme liberties with what Scripture defines as Law. And then they try to make a particular case based on how they have arbitrarily redefined Law.

    When Paul refers to the Law, he is almost always referring to the law of Moses: 613 elements that include the 10 Commandments .

    It is equally beyond doubt that the law of Moses was for the Jews and the Jews only - this is absolutely clear from Scripture.

    That the 10 Commandments form part of the law of Moses is clear not least from Romans 7 where Paul clearly refers to the commandment to not covet as part of “the law“.

    Beware of people read defining words and introducing arbitrary distinctions that are not grounded in scripture. It is clear that the law of Moses includes the 10 Commandments and was intended for Jews only.

    So when people argue that the law of Moses is somehow necessary for all human beings to have knowledge of sin this is simply out of line with how the Bible defines the law of Moses.
     
  3. corinth77777

    corinth77777 learner

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    So my understanding at this point

    The school master led to The Faithfulness of Christ. Christ's Faithfulness is where our Righteousness comes from. TRUSTING in our Righteousness [the faithfulness of Christ] is the Father's will. Doing the father's will is a relationship that makes you want to do the will of Christ which is to love.

    So one establishes the Law of God through Christ's Faithfulness because the purpose of the Law of God was met when they are brought to Love through the faithfulness of Christ. If one loves they also have fullfilled the law. Meaning the purpose of the Law was met....

    That is my rough draft
     
  4. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    EPHESIANS.6:17 = ... and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;

    JOHN.6:63 = 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

    MATTHEW.4:4 = 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

    EXODUS.20:1 = The Ten Commandments
    1 And God spoke all these words, saying: ...

    HEBREWS.4: = The Word Discovers Our Condition
    11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

    12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

    JOHN.1:1 & 14 = 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

    2CORINTHIANS.3:17 = 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

    1TIMOTHY.3:16 = God was manifested in the flesh, ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  5. corinth77777

    corinth77777 learner

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    2 cor 3:11



    For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

    What was Glorious?

    Ask Moses about His Face?
    The Tablets

    Duet 9:11 And it came to pass at the end of forty days and forty nights, [that] the LORD gave me the two tables of stone, [even] the tables of the covenant

    Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

    But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious so that the children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which... was to be done away.
     
  6. discipler7

    discipler7 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever it is, ie Spirit vs the Law/Word/commandments, Jewish Christians should continue to keep the Law/Moses Law/God's Law, as many laws as possible because it is not a burden to them.(ACTS.21:20)
    ....... OTOH, Gentile Christians should only keep the non-burdensome parts of the Law, especially morality laws like the 10 Commandments, as per ACTS.15:24-29.
    [ROMANS.2:5-11]

    Why the difference.? = because for the formerly lawless Gentile Christians, eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ trumps a good and long life on earth through the keeping of the Law. IOW, faith > Law.
    ....... So, a Gentile chain-smoker or alcoholic or drug addict(cf; LEVITICUS.10:9) can still be saved from hell through faith in Christ, even though he/she will likely die young.(cf; LUKE.23:43 = a repentant robber who was crucified next to Jesus Christ being saved from hell through faith) Requiring him/her to keep the Law and give up intoxicating cigarettes, alcohol or drugs would be too burdensome = he/she may give up on the faith if required to do so.

    Some lawless Gentiles have been spiritually or physically and irrevocably damaged(= a sad and short life on earth) when they are led and brought to Christ for salvation through faith. To enable them to keep the faith, God lovingly exempted Gentile Christians from any of His laws which might prove burdensome to them.
    .......Of course, this does not preclude such suffering lawless Gentiles from God's miraculous healings, exorcisms, deliverances, restoration, etc = they can then keep more non-burdensome laws like the other normal and healthy Gentile Christians.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  7. corinth77777

    corinth77777 learner

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    So therefore the complete Old Covenant All the Law..is Done away with in Christ.

    So What remains? SPIRITUAL LAWS/COMMANDS/Jesus's Sayings/His words?

    So first comes the natural then the spiritual

    "However, that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."Corinthians
     
  8. corinth77777

    corinth77777 learner

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    As I was meditating on the above post this scripture came to mind :heaven and earth shall pass away but my words will last for ever..dont quote me...
    So I googled it and this site I came to:
    http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/hebrews/1_10-14.htm
     
  9. drich0150

    drich0150 Regular Member

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    Keep reading! The law is to set a standard for which those who do not have Christ to be shown as lacking, but once we have Christ the law no longer applies.

    In essence the law exists for all the reasons you listed, for the purpose of pushing the unrepentant to atonement. once atoned the law has no other value.
    Romans 3:
    19 What the law says is for those who are under the law. It stops anyone from making excuses. And it brings the whole world under God’s judgment, 20 because no one can be made right with God by following the law. The law only shows us our sin.
    21 But God has a way to make people right, and it has nothing to do with the law. He has now shown us that new way, which the law and the prophets told us about. 22 God makes people right through their faith inJesus Christ. He does this for all who believe in Christ. Everyone is the same. 23 All have sinned and are not good enough to share God’s divine greatness. 24 They are made right with God by his grace. This is a free gift. They are made right with God by being made free from sin through Jesus Christ. 25-26 God gave Jesus as a way to forgive people’s sins through their faith in him. God can forgive them because the blood sacrifice of Jesus pays for their sins. God gave Jesus to show that he always does what is right and fair. He was right in the past when he was patient and did not punish people for their sins. And in our own time he still does what is right. God worked all this out in a way that allows him to judge people fairly and still make right any person who has faith in Jesus.

    BTW you misquoted romans 3. your passage came from romans 2.
     
  10. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    This post doesn’t address what the scriptures say.

    The commandments are summed up as
    “Love your neighbor”.

    Doing good things s everyday not just on Saturday.

    The Sabbath is a day.


    One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5


    I’m convinced like the Apostle Paul that the Sabbath finds its substance in Christ.


    So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17


    Christ is our rest and our peace.


    Which is why Paul says in Hebrews that those who believe do enter that rest.


    For we who have believed do enter that rest Hebrews 4:3



    JLB
     
  11. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello brother JBL, nice to see you.

    I am not sure why you need me to prove your claims? You made the claim that Romans 14 is talking about God's 4th Commandment Sabbath. I challenged you to prove your claim and stated you are reading into scripture things that are not there and challenged you to prove with God's WORD that Romans 14 is talking about God's 4th Commandment Sabbath. There is no scripture in Romans 14 that says this and you have not provided any scripture for your claims. It is not up to me my friend to prove your claims. I have already proved my claims that Romans 14 is not discussing God's Sabbath by stating that the chapter is not talking about the Sabbath and it is mentioned no where in the Scriptures.

    If you cannot prove your claims then we do not really have much to discuss except to agree to disagree. Why do you expect me to have to prove claims you are making in Romans 14 that have no scripture to support what you have said?

    Romans 14 is talking about eating and fasting connected to days that some men esteem over others. It is not talking about what God esteems or God's commandments. Romans 14 is not talking about God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH Commandment and there is not one scripture in the chapter that supports what you are trying to read into the scriptures.

    If you disagree prove that this chapter is talking about the SEVENTH DAY Sabbath because this is the claim you are making not me. It is not even the topic of conversation within the chapter which is food and fasting connected to days that men esteem over other days.

    You may need to re-think what your posting if you cannot prove your claims with God's WORD. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it.

    May god help you as you seek him through his Word. :wave:
     
  12. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello brother drich0150, nice to meet you here and welcome. :)
    Thanks for your thought brother. Your quoting from a sumarised version of a larger post which also covers verse 25. You can read it here if your interested. Those scritpures from the post you qote of mine are for a particular point I was trying to make on the purpose of God's LAW in leading us to Christ. If you like you can read the full version of the Galatian 3:22-25 post here click me.
    Indeed do not disagree and saying the same. :oldthumbsup: By quoting Romans 3:9-19 and Romans 2:3-13 earlier was only to show that both JEW and GENTILE are "UNDER THE LAW" through sin and none are rightouess before God.
    Thanks its a typo. Do you have a link to that post I could not find it to correct it?

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts here brother nice to meet you :wave:
     
  13. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Look at the scripture context here what is done away? It is the ministry of death because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). God's LAW points out sin (Romans 6:23). It is not saying that God's LAW is abolished it is saying sin and death is abolished through the ministration of the Spirit (Forgiveness by faith in God's promise) v3 written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.

    v7-8 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away [ministration of death from sin]: How shall not the ministry of the Spirit be more glorious [Forgivness through faith].
    This is where many make their mistake in not understanding the OLD COVENANT and as a result find it hard to understand the NEW COVENANT. God's 10 Commandments written in stone by God are indeed very much a part of the OLD COVENANT as they are in the NEW Covenant as they give us the KNLOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUENESS (James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172).

    The being said it is both God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the Shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the law that collectively make up the OLD COVENANT. Both had a different pupose in the OLD COVENANT. God's LAW (10 Commandments) give us a knowledge of sin and rightouesness but that is all. While the Mosaic book of the covenant provided the shadow laws for forgiveness of sin and sin offerings if God's LAW was broken in the OLD COVENANT.


    God's 10 Commandments and the MOSAIC book of the law made up the OLD COVENANT...

    EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the ten commandments.

    EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

    Many make the mistake of thinking that the OLD COVENANT was just the 10 commandments. It was both the 10 Commandments and the Shadow laws for remission of sins from the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

    You mix up your scriptures brother corinth. I hope this is helpful.

    May God bless you as you seek him through his WORD :wave:
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    This is a good scripture to meditate on. May I ask you a question as your meditating on this scripture?

    It says that HEAVEN and EARTH SHALL PASS AWAY but my words shall not pass away?

    Jesus is GOD and GOD'S WORD does not pass away.

    Meditate on this...

    Jesus also says; For verily I say unto you, till HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:18-19).

    Was the 10 Commandments God's WORD? *Exodus 20:1 Something to meditate and pray about. God's LAW is the knowledge of sin if broken.

    May God bless you brother as you seek him through his Word :wave:
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hello brother corinth, nice to see you.

    It is impossible for God's 4th commandment (SEVENTH DAY SABBATH) which is one of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of sin to be a Shadow law. There is no scripture in all of God's WORD that teaches this.

    God's Sabbath was made as part of the finished work of creation before sin entered into the world and before any of God's laws and plan of salvation was given to man because mankind had never sinned and was in perfect harmony with God (Genesis 2:1-3).

    If there was no sin, no laws, no plan of salvation given, then there is no shadow law. All the shadow laws are from the MOSAIC BOOK of the law which was not given before sin. All the laws were given AFTER sin entered into the world not before.

    This is why it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a Shadow. It is simply a holy day that God set aside for mankind as a memorial of creation.

    Does it not worry you brother that God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of sin if broken?

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word. :wave:
     
  16. JLB777

    JLB777 Newbie Supporter

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    I proved my claim, showing plainly the context of the commandments being taught by Paul, in that the ordinances of the Sabbath as well as food laws are no longer applicable under the New Covenant.

    If you believe the ordinances of the Sabbath that were part of the law of Moses are applicable today for the Church, then please post the scriptures that teach us the Church is obligated to keep the law of Moses.



    The commandments are summed up as
    “Love your neighbor”.

    Doing good things everyday not just on Saturday.

    The Sabbath is a day.


    One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5


    I’m convinced like the Apostle Paul that the Sabbath finds its substance in Christ.


    So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17


    Christ is our rest and our peace.


    Which is why Paul says in Hebrews that those who believe do enter that rest.


    For we who have believed do enter that rest Hebrews 4:3



    JLB
     
  17. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Hi JBL, you seem a little all over the place with you post. Which scriptures did you wish to discuss brother and what claim have you proven?

    You made a claim earlier that Romans 14 is talking about God's SABABATH which is not even mentioned in the whole chapter and you have not been able to supply any scriptures that say this.

    If you cannot prove your claims with God's WORD then we do not really have much to discuss except to agree to disagree. Why do you expect me to have to prove claims you are making in Romans 14 that have no scripture to support what you have said?

    Romans 14 is talking about eating and fasting connected to days that some men esteem over others. It is not talking about what God esteems or God's commandments. Romans 14 is not talking about God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH Commandment and there is not one scripture in the chapter that supports what you are trying to read into the scriptures.

    If you disagree prove that this chapter is talking about the SEVENTH DAY Sabbath because this is the claim you are making not me. It is not even the topic of conversation within the chapter which is food and fasting connected to days that men esteem over other days.

    If you cannot prove your claim your simply reading into scripture that which is not there. At this point if you cannot show the scripture that says Romans 14 is talking about God's 4th Commandment then we will have to agree to disagree.

    Hope this is clear enough for you. :wave:
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not really brother. It depends on the within scripture and chapter context that is provided which defines the subject matter.

    I would suggest brother that this is not true and God's WORD disagres with you as Gentiles are now grafted into the NEW COVENANT and there is no longer Jew or Gentile all are one in Christ. Please see the following scriptures * Romans 2:6-13, Romans 3:9-20, Romans 11:16-27; Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29, Romans 2:28-29

    ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    JESUS, PAUL AND ALL THE APOSTLE TAUGHT THE 10 COMMANDMENT Click me

    Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you here.
    Not sure what your trying to say here. God's LAW (10 Commandments) and the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the law collectively made up the Old Covenant. Both had a different purpose in God's plan of salvation for mankind. God's Law (10 Commandments) was to give a knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS (Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172). While the Mosaic book of the law gave the laws for remission of sin (sin offerinjgs)

    Brother it sound from reading this (correct me if I have a wrong understanding of what your trying to say here) that you think the shadow laws of Moses fulfilled in Christ and written in the book of the law are the 10 commandments? The Mosaic book of the law is dealing with what happens when we sin and provided all the laws for remission of son (forgiveness) under the OLD COVENANT (sin offereings). These are the shadow laws fulfilled in Christ (example Leviticus 16) and reveal God's plan of salvation under the NEW COVENANT.

    God's LAW (10 Commandments) on the other hand give us a knowledge of what sin is if broken. Sin in general is UNBELIEF and not following God's WORD. God's LAW (10 Commandments) are God's WORD and give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUENESS (James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Psalms 119:172).

    Let's look at the scriptures that say this...

    ................

    SIN IN THE NEW TESTAMENT BREAKING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS

    JAMES 2:8-12
    [8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: [9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

    Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbor in v11. Maybe you missed that one?

    ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

    Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

    links to...

    1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

    John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.

    Sin is indeed defined in God's WORD as breaking any of the 10 Commandments in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.

    ................

    SIN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BREAKING THE 10 COMMANDMENTS (Summarized)

    God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus say the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7).

    Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20). Jacob knew about sin when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters (Genesis 31:36).

    When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9).

    God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). When Moses was delayed on the Mount with God the children of ISRAEL made an Idol and worshipped it breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandment (Exodus 20:3-5). Moses said to them after he returned, you have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin (Exodus 32:30; Deuteronomy 9:16-18). Moses said to Aaron that by making an idol for the people to worship that it was a great sin (Exodus 32:21; 30). God would punish the children of Israel for their sin of Idol worship (Exodus 32:34).

    God said to Moses in reference to breaking the 10 Commandments; Whosoever has sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book (Exodus 32:33).

    God said that if Israel was not to make a covenant with the other nations and serve their god's it would be sin (Exodus 23:33). Joshua says stealing is sin (Joshua 7:11). Achan knew when he was caught stealing that he sinned (Joshua 7:20).

    When God's people forsake God to worship other God's, they also confess that they had sinned in breaking God's commandments (Judges 10:10;15). Samuel made atonement for God's people when they wanted to return to God confessing that they had sinned after they worshipped other Gods breaking God's 1st and 2nd commandments (1 Samuel 7:5; 12:10; Exodus 20:2-5).

    King Saul wanted to kill David, but Jonathon spoke good of David saying to him no to sin against David by killing him (1 Samuel 19:4). David cut the skirt of King Saul in the cave and said to him that he could have killed him if he wanted to but did not sin against him by sparing his life (1 Samuel 24:11). King Saul replied that in wanting to kill David he had sinned (1 Samuel 26:21).

    When David became king he desired Bathsheba who was another man’s wife and organised for her husband Uriah the Hitite to be sent to the front line of battle to be killed. God sent Nathan to David and David confessed in doing this that he had sinned in breaking God's 6th and 7th Commandment (Exodus 20:13:14). David confessed that he had sinned to breaking God's LAW (1 Samuel 12:13).

    Now we can also go through all the evil Kings of Israel that sinned against God by following and worshipping other Gods which is also defined as sin in God's WORD but there would be too many scriptures (2 Kings 17:7). God testified that they served other Gods and idols sending them prophets to warn them of their sins (2 Kings 17:12-13; 16-17). We are also told that King Manasseh also broke God's 6th commandment and killed more innocent people then most others testifying that by doing this he had sinned (2 Kings 16:17). God continued to send prophets to warn his people of the consequences of sin (Nehemiah 9:30). God's people continued in their sins forsaking God's LAW (10 commandments) and in doing so God left them and Israel were overthrown and led into captivity to the other nations because they departed from God serving other God's and idols. Nehemiah knew this and prayed to God confessing their sins (Nehemiah 1:6-9). God's people continued to sin against God by worshipping other Gods despite the warning of Jeremiah (Jeremiah 44:18-23). In despite of God's Word teaching that God's people had forsaken the 10 commandments and sinned against God, going into captivity, God promised he would bring them back when they returned to him and heal them from their sins of breaking his commandments (Ezekiel 37:22-23).

    Hosea testified by the Word of the Lord that God's people by making idols and worshipping other god's, lying, stealing, killing, committing adultery would receive the judgments of God because they had sinned by departing from the 10 Commandments (Hosea 4:1-19).

    The word of the Lord came to Zephaniah saying that all those who continue in sin by worshipping other God's and breaking his commandments will be destroyed off the land because they have sinned against God (Zephaniah 1:2-17).

    ...............

    Yep God’s WORD is very clear that sin is defined as breaking ANY of the 10 Commandments just as James, Paul and John all teach in the NEW TESTAMENT (James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). All the above scriptures show by example, quoting individual commandments from the 10 Commandments that SIN is indeed also defined as breaking any of God's 10 Commandments.

    ..............

    Hope this helps :wave:
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2018
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,238
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    The difference here my brother is that I respond to the scriptures you post showing why I disagree with your interpretation of them. You ignore the scriputure and posts sent only to help you.
     
  20. expos4ever

    expos4ever Well-Known Member

    +3,173
    Canada
    Christian
    Private
    Your reasoning about who is "under the law" is clearly not correct and, I confess, it is hard for me to understand how you do not realize this. Let me try to explain this as clearly and systematically as I can.

    Romans 3:19

    Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are [h]under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

    The issue here is context - ripped out of context, the above text certainly could be read as implying that all under the Law. But it doesn't have to be read that way, and both the context of Romans 3 - and even more importantly the weight of all Scripture - show that it should not be read that way.

    In the first 18 or so verses, Paul clearly shows that he is trying to mount a case not simply that all are sinners, but that both Jews and Gentiles are sinners. He has clearly marked out two distinct categories of human beings in the first 18 verses - Jews and Gentiles. He is clearly trying to disabuse his readers of the error of thinking that Jews are better than Gentiles or vice versa.

    So now we come the infamous verse 19 with these two categories already on the table. You either didn't realize this is where we are at the beginning of verses 19 or, worse, you have chosen to sweep that under the table. Here is the clincher: any Biblically literate person would already know that it is the Jew who was given the Law of Moses and is under its jurisdiction.

    If you deny this, I will have to conclude you have simply not given the Old Testament a serious read because it is painfully obvious that this is the case.

    So when Paul says that the Law speaks to those that under it, he has to be referring to the Jews since it is a Biblical fact that the Law of Moses is specific to the Jew.

    Now for the key point: Having just compared and contrasted Jew and Gentile in the first 18 verses, his reference to those "under the Law" can still be specific to the Jew - as it should be unless Paul knows nothing about Judaism. He is simply saying this, in effect:

    Jews sin, Gentiles sin; therefore although the Law says what it says to Jews (those under the Law), the whole world remains sinful.

    On top of all this, we have this little cutie which, on its own, torpedoes any unBiblical notion that Gentiles are "under the Law":

    For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also?

    To deny that Paul is here implicitly saying that only the Jew is subject to the Law would be bizarre to say the least.

    This should settle the matter but, alas, I am sure it won't.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
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