Are Christians just Jews with different beliefs?

[Lukaris]

So the reason is a couple of fellow workers were Jews and Luke was a fellow worker. I guess it is possible.

Why do most scholars consider Luke a Gentile and a few consider him a Hellenstic Jew?

I have no idea. I had always heard that Luke was gentile all my life & just aware of the passages that I referred to from Colossians.

 

[John Caldwell]

I have no idea. I had always heard that Luke was gentile all my life & just aware of the passages that I referred to from Colossians.

I looked it up. Guess I was just being lazy I do lazy sometimes.

Looks like the reason people think Luke was a Gentile (other than his name being a Gentile name) is that Paul names Arisyarchus, Mark the cousin of Barnabas and Jesus (Justus) as the only fellow workers who were Jews (Colossians 4:10-11).

This means Luke had to be a Gentile. Maybe a Hellenistic Jew ("of the circumcision" refers to ethnic identity rather than actual circumcision, but perhaps Paul was excluding Hellenistic Jews).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sorry to have to create a thread here again, this is the only section I was able to create a new thread at, the other forums require "christian" designation, until a moderator changes that for me, I create here. You can move my threads to the right place later if its a problem.

Well basically, my question is are Christians just Jews with different beliefs? To me it seems that way. I live in Israel and, I'm not really a Jew, but the Family I come from has jewish background. But since Christianity came after Judaism, not before, and Christians are originally Jews who have simply believed Jesus was the Messiah, why arent they called Jews?

Christians still have the same Old testament which Jews follow and believe in, they still believe in heaven/hell, still believe in various Jewish related traditions and behaviors and so on. So I dont understand why arent Christians considered Jews. Christianity itself is originally Judaism except they accepted Jesus as the Messiah. So how did a new religion was created like that? It doesnt look very sensible.

Personally, I think Jews and Christians are almost the same thing. I even heard somewhere Jew+Jesus = Christian. Is that true?

Hope you all can please explain things, thanks.

Christianity is the fulfillment and continuation of the Jewish prophecies. In the Old Testament aka the Hebrew Bible there are many prophecies of the coming of the Messiah. Jesus is the Messiah that those prophecies foretold about. The reason we do not call ourselves Jews is because we don’t follow the Mosaic law of Judaism. Instead we follow Jesus’ teachings many of which are somewhat similar to some of the Mosaic Laws, mostly having to do with laws concerning morality, but we are no longer required to observe the ceremonial laws in Judaism. That’s a short version of an answer to your questions.

 

[AbbaLove]

I find it interesting that Paul considered himself an Apostle to the Gentiles as a lot of what we read is addressing the Jewish rejection of Gentiles (and carries a Jewish tone).

Even after he says that the LORD callled him to preach the Good News to the gentiles he still found opportunity to reason with Jews persuading some to accept Yeshuah as their Messiah. Paul never missed an opportunity to witness to dispersed Jews as led by the Holy Spirit.

Why are you certain he was not a Gentile?

Because i believe the Bible is the Complete Hebrew/Jewish Bible. I believe GOD would have wanted His Living Word (NT) recorded by Jewish men.

I have considered that Luke (who was not an Apostle) could have been a Hellenistic Jew.

Well, we can agree that he was not one of the original Apostles, but that is no reason to conclude that he was a gentile. Do you not agree that the book of the Acts Of The Apostles was penned by Luke?

Would the LORD have chosen a gentile Christian to write an account of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit on Shavuot? With evidence of speaking in other languages and 3000 Jews praising GOD and all the other supernatural Acts of the Apostles.

How could Luke have written such a detailed account account of the going-ons unless as a Jew he was privy to the Acts of the Apostles. Isn't it likely (fact), that Luke was among the 120 Jewish disciples in the Upper Room? Isn't it likely that Luke himself experienced tongues like fire?

To me Luke was a Jewish journalist that was most gifted and chosen to record one of the most amazing events of human history. AMEIN !
_______________
Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News, since it is God’s powerful means of bringing salvation to everyone who keeps on trusting, to the Jew especially, but equally to the Gentile.
17 For in it is revealed how God makes people righteous in His sight; and from beginning to end it is through trust/faith— as the Tanakh puts it, “But the person who is righteous will live his life by trust/faith.” (Habakkuk 2:4; Proverbs 3:5-6)

 

[John Caldwell]

​

Even after he says that the LORD callled him to preach the Good News to the gentiles he still found opportunity to reason with Jews persuading some to accept Yeshuah as their Messiah. Paul never missed an opportunity to witness to dispersed Jews as led by the Holy Spirit.

​

Because i believe the Bible is the Complete Hebrew/Jewish Bible. I believe GOD would have wanted His Living Word (NT) recorded by Jewish men.

​

Well, we can agree that he was not one of the original Apostles, but that is no reason to conclude that he was a gentile. Do you not agree that the book of the Acts Of The Apostles was penned by Luke?

Would the LORD have chosen a gentile Christian to write an account of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit on Sukkot? With evidence of speaking in other languages and 3000 Jews praising GOD and all the other supernatural Acts of the Apostles.

How could Luke have written such a detailed account account of the going-ons unless as a Jew he was privy to the Acts of the Apostles. Isn't it likely (fact), that Luke was among the 120 Jewish disciples in the Upper Room? Isn't it likely that Luke himself experienced tongues like fire?

To me Luke was a Jewish journalist that was most gifted and chosen to record one of the most amazing events of human history. AMEIN !
_______________
Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News, since it is God’s powerful means of bringing salvation to everyone who keeps on trusting, to the Jew especially, but equally to the Gentile.
17 For in it is revealed how God makes people righteous in His sight; and from beginning to end it is through trust/faith— as the Tanakh puts it, “But the person who is righteous will live his life by trust/faith.” (Habakkuk 2:4; Proverbs 3:5-6)

I do agree that Luke wrote Acts. I apologize if my reply somehow indicated otherwise (that wasn't my intent).

That said, Paul's statement that excluded Luke from being his fellow workers that were "of the circumcision" is fairly persuasive.

I do not understand your reasoning that God wouldn't have used a Gentile to write Scripture, especially given the explanation of Gentikes being "grafted" in and Paul's explanation of what constitutes true children of Abraham (who, granted, was pre-Israel).

Is it likely that Luke was present in the Upper Room? No. I think it is not likely. I can't reconcile Luke's presence in the Upper Room with his testimony that his gospel account was "handed down" to him by those who witnessed the events first hand.

 

[Lukaris]

I tend to believe ( just my theory) that St. Paul was a source for much of what St. Luke wrote. I believe this is similar to the general view that St. Peter was the source for Gospel writer St. Mark.

The excellent movie: Paul, Apostle of Christ, is a part fictional, but faithfully true, portrayal of the relationship of St. Luke and St. Paul.

Paul, Apostle of Christ - Wikipedia

 

[AbbaLove]

I live in Israel and, I'm not really a Jew, but the Family I come from has jewish background.

If you have Jewish ancestry and live in Israel then you are Jewish (even if a secular Jew). You have a rich ancestry as the chosen people of GOD. Christianity would not be possible without Jewish influence. Thank You!

In answer to your question "Are Christians just Jews with different beliefs?" It depends on who you ask? Even within Christianity there are different beliefs (Roman Catholicism, Protestantism, Messianic Christianity). Also as you know within Judaism there are different beliefs (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform and Messianic Judaism).

Galatians 3:28 (Complete Jewish Bible)
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor freeman, neither male nor female; for in union with the Messiah Yeshua, you are all one.
Galatians 3:28 (New Living Translation)
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[John Caldwell]

I tend to believe ( just my theory) that St. Paul was a source for much of what St. Luke wrote. I believe this is similar to the general view that St. Peter was the source for Gospel writer St. Mark.

The excellent movie: Paul, Apostle of Christ, is a part fictional, but faithfully true, portrayal of the relationship of St. Luke and St. Paul.

Paul, Apostle of Christ - Wikipedia

I'm not sure if Luke had one source. An issue with Paul being Luke's source for his Gospel is that Luke describes his source(s) as relating first hand knowledge of what they witnessed (Luke 1:2). This would exclude Paul.

 

[Lukaris]

I'm not sure if Luke had one source. An issue with Paul being Luke's source for his Gospel is that Luke describes his source(s) as relating first hand knowledge of what they witnessed (Luke 1:2). This would exclude Paul.

I agree that Luke had more than one source and I really have little, if anything, to support my theory. To me it is plausible but hardly provable. Still, I feel it is a safe speculation that is not unfaithful.

 

[John Caldwell]

I agree that Luke had more than one source and I really have little, if anything, to support my theory. To me it is plausible but hardly provable. Still, I feel it is a safe speculation that is not unfaithful.

I'd place Paul as a major source for Luke writing Acts. But I suspect the source(s) for his Gospel were those who were first hand witnesses (as this is Luke's claim and I see no reason to think Luke's claim an embellishment).

Luke uses the word "us" in the verse as well (those who were first hand witnesses, who were with Christ from the beginning, told the account to "us").

This lends me to think it is possible that Luke, along with Paul, learned from the Disciples.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I find it interesting that Paul considered himself an Apostle to the Gentiles as a lot of what we read is addressing the Jewish rejection of Gentiles (and carries a Jewish tone). That said, there are distinctly Gentile audiences at times.

I have considered that Luke (who was not an Apostle) could have been a Hellenistic Jew.

Why are you certain he was not a Gentile?

I've seen it argued that Luke was a priest. Seems to be a minority view though:

https://www.amazon.com/Luke-Priest-Authority-Author-Gospel/dp/0754662594

 

[Yekcidmij]

I've seen it argued that Luke was a priest. Seems to be a minority view though:

https://www.amazon.com/Luke-Priest-Authority-Author-Gospel/dp/0754662594

David Allen argues that Luke wrote Hebrews:

https://www.amazon.com/Authorship-H...=books&sprefix=Lukan+aut,stripbooks,99&sr=1-2

 

[John Caldwell]

I've seen it argued that Luke was a priest. Seems to be a minority view though:

https://www.amazon.com/Luke-Priest-Authority-Author-Gospel/dp/0754662594

Interesting. I have never heard that argument.

I love to read other theories and ideas (although I suppose it really doesn't matter). Were it not for Paul's words I would read the book.

 

[ViaCrucis]

David Allen argues that Luke wrote Hebrews:

https://www.amazon.com/Authorship-Hebrews-American-Commentary-Theology-ebook/dp/B003U6Y3UE/ref=sr_1_2?crid=41994BLUV8JZ&keywords=lukan+authorship+of+hebrews&qid=1666555277&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjA3IiwicXNhIjoiMS40MiIsInFzcCI6IjAuOTkifQ==&s=books&sprefix=Lukan+aut,stripbooks,99&sr=1-2

Martin Luther was of the opinion that it was Apollos. Some in antiquity thought it may have been Barnabas. This is the first time I've heard Luke's name put forward as a candidate.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[AbbaLove]

Recent posts about the primary Jewish sources that provided first hand accounts to Luke is sufficient reason that either Luke's mother, father (or both) were Jewish and that Luke considered himself Jewish. Think about it as more likely than being of non-Jewish gentile ancestry.

Many years ago i attended a Conseravitve Baptist Church for a few years and was baptized as an adult when i came to the realization that Christ Jesus was the physical manifestation of GOD Incarnate. It's understandable why so many non-Jewish Chritians favor Luke as being a gentile (RT/FT Supercessionism) without any substantial proof to support their belief.

It doesn't ring right that the Acts Of The Jewish Apostles was penned by a non-Jewish Gentile any more than Luke (if non-Jewish) would have been chosen by GOD to be an Apostle to the gentiles instead of Paul. Those that believe Luke was a gentile (IMO) are still beholden to some form of RT/FT even though they may not even realize it. Anyway, we're getting side-tracked from the OP's question ...

Christians are not the same as Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews or Reform Jews that do NOT believe that Christ Jesus (Messiah Yeshua) is Immanuel, the Son Of Elohim (GOD). The 'perfect' sacrificial Lamb of YHVH who arose to again to life on the 3rd day, later ascended into heaven (after having been seen by many), and will reign as KING of kings and LORD of lords in the New Jerusalem. (IMO)​

 

[John Caldwell]

Recent posts about the primary Jewish sources that provided first hand accounts to Luke is sufficient reason that either Luke's mother, father (or both) were Jewish and that Luke considered himself Jewish. Think about it as more likely than being of non-Jewish gentile ancestry.

Perhaps Paul was mistaken, or it was an oversight, when he excluded Luke as one of the few fellow workers that were Jewish. I suppose that is possible.

What are the first hand accounts testifying that Luke was Jewish? I looked in this thread but couldn't find them (I'm sure I overlooked them but if you would be so kind as to point them out I'd appreciate it).

 

[drich0150]

Sorry to have to create a thread here again, this is the only section I was able to create a new thread at, the other forums require "christian" designation, until a moderator changes that for me, I create here. You can move my threads to the right place later if its a problem.

Well basically, my question is are Christians just Jews with different beliefs? To me it seems that way. I live in Israel and, I'm not really a Jew, but the Family I come from has jewish background. But since Christianity came after Judaism, not before, and Christians are originally Jews who have simply believed Jesus was the Messiah, why arent they called Jews?

Christians still have the same Old testament which Jews follow and believe in, they still believe in heaven/hell, still believe in various Jewish related traditions and behaviors and so on. So I dont understand why arent Christians considered Jews. Christianity itself is originally Judaism except they accepted Jesus as the Messiah. So how did a new religion was created like that? It doesnt look very sensible.

Personally, I think Jews and Christians are almost the same thing. I even heard somewhere Jew+Jesus = Christian. Is that true?

Hope you all can please explain things, thanks.

Paul describes Jews as being like the natural branch off of an olive tree in romans 11 that were not producing 'fruit' So the farmer broke off those branches and "grafted in" a wild branch (gentiles/christians.) which produce fruit but not satisfactory fruit.

( Grafting a process where you take branches off another tree that produce unsatisfactory fruit and mend them into a good tree with a good root system that maybe does not produce enough fruit, and those grafted in branches will produce good quality fruit as they are being nourished by the good root)
.
So gentiles are being 'plugged' into the same covenant or root that made the Jews god's people. and so long as we produce satisfactory fruit God will keep and nourish us.
If we do not then as Paul says. God did not spare the original branches, he will not spare the wild branches he grafted in.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 11 - New International Version

 

[chilehed]

Well basically, my question is are Christians just Jews with different beliefs?

If they're Jews who believe in Jesus, then yes.

I, however, am not a son of Abraham, so in my case, no.

 

[BPPLEE]

If they're Jews who believe in Jesus, then yes.

I, however, am not a son of Abraham, so in my case, no.

I thought father Abraham had many sons and I am one of them and so are you so let’s just praise the Lord. At least that’s what they taught me to sing in elementary school.

 

[Soyeong]

If they're Jews who believe in Jesus, then yes.

I, however, am not a son of Abraham, so in my case, no.

Galatians 3:26-29 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The above verses connect those who are in Christ through faith and children of God with those who are children of Abraham and heirs to the promise. If you belong to Christ, then you are a child of Abraham, so if you deny being a child of Abraham, then you are also denying belonging to Christ.