ARE ALL THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT?

[GodsGrace101]

Zzz Just change your day to the right day silly {God's day}

No point in taking a gamble on your salvation if God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is right (Romans 3:20)? and there is no scripture that says it has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

Love you sis . Your brother in Christ.

Nice to see you stranger.

PS.
I want to see you being more active here. I saw God using you at CC to share his Word about his LAW and Covenant to those who did not believe his Word.
The harvest is ready the laborers are few.

I even checked out the Didache...it doesn't mention either day and makes it obscure. But it IS a commandment and Jesus did not abolish the moral law.
Uffa.
Love you back.

 

[BobRyan]

As knows very well, I battle with this.
I'm happy to believe that we will not be judged by our doctrine or dogma but by how we've lived our life, to the best of our ability.

It is one thing to say one loves Christ -- but as 1 John 5:3 reminds us
" 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;"

I do believe that Jesus came to show us how to bring the Kingdom of God on earth.

As to our rest... Jesus said:
Mathew 11:28-30
28“Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Rest from what? Trying to be saved by doing only works, trying to follow each and every one of the 613 laws....without any power to. Now we have less laws since the civil and ceremonial laws have been abolished and only the moral laws remain. Some try to keep the O.T. laws also, but I don't see how they can be.

And resting in Jesus "his burden is light... his yoke is easy" -- we pay attention to what He said.

Here is what Jesus said

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:17
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

And as for the Apostles
Rom 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"


For all eternity - after the cross
Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

In fact "every Sabbath" as Acts 18:14 states - gathering for Gospel preaching.

Eph 6:2 -- The 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" in that still-valid-unit of TEN

Acts also says that "they gathered on the first day of the week".
Acts 20:7

Now I know this might have been a special occasion since Paul was not going to be with them much longer.

It is true - they did gather once for a farewell for Paul.

But the only "every Sabbath" or "every week day 1" that you find in the NT that specifically speaks about worship to God - is "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 where both Jews and gentiles gather for Gospel preaching and of course in the OT the prediction by God that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

 

[BobRyan]

Which is what God did and called them the "ten commandments":

Exodus 34:1 The LORD said to Moses, Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. 2 Be ready in the morning, and then come up on Mount Sinai. Present yourself to me there on top of the mountain. 3 No-one is to come with you or be seen anywhere on the mountain; not even the flocks and herds may graze in front of the mountain.

Exodus 34:27 ........ And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

As Moses said in Deuteronomy God spoke the Ten Words at Sinai "and added no more" to that moral law of God written on stone - and it alone was kept inside the Ark. No other text was there.

 

[JackRT]

As Moses said in Deuteronomy God spoke the Ten Words at Sinai "and added no more" to that moral law of God written on stone - and it alone was kept inside the Ark. No other text was there.

There are three versions of the commandments ---
Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:1-21. Analytical Bible scholars regard Exodus 34 as the oldest followed by Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 but Exodus 34 is almost completely ignored being so very different from the other two. In spite of that it is the only version which self identifies as "the ten commandment". This makes calling the other two versions "the ten commandments" is actually a human interpretation. I have never seen a single coherent explanation of the contradictions inherent here.

 

[BobRyan]

There are three versions of the commandments

1. God only spoke once at Sinai and 40 years later Moses confirms that God spoke the Ten Words "and added no more".

2. The Ten Commandments were written on stone... .there was no "Chisel off those two and chisel in these three" sort of things going on.

3. The stone tablets from Sina were kept "inside the ark" -- Exodus 34 was not... Deut 5 was not..

4. In Deut 5 reminds Israel of the commands "written in stone" 40 years ago and says they are still the commands to be kept.

Deut 5
“Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face at the mountain from the midst of the fire, 5 while I was standing between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the Lord;

Deut 5
12 ‘Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you.

Another reference BACK to the 40 year old commands written in stone


Deut 5
22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Not "and He revised them a million times" or "and we keep re-chiseling that stone"

No matter how much that people add by way of creative writing and speculation - the statements above are irrefutable.

I am not saying that there was no paraphrasing in Deut 5... but the stones in the Ark of the covenant were not "auto-updating" with every word penned in the book of Deuteronomy - as all agree.

 

[JackRT]

All of which brings to mind the question "If the ten commandments are Exodus 20, then why did Moses write the two other versions?"

 

[GodsGrace101]

It is one thing to say one loves Christ -- but as 1 John 5:3 reminds us
" 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;"


And resting in Jesus "his burden is light... his yoke is easy" -- we pay attention to what He said.

Here is what Jesus said

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 19:17
if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

And as for the Apostles
Rom 3
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"


For all eternity - after the cross
Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

In fact "every Sabbath" as Acts 18:14 states - gathering for Gospel preaching.

Eph 6:2 -- The 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment with a promise" in that still-valid-unit of TEN



It is true - they did gather once for a farewell for Paul.

But the only "every Sabbath" or "every week day 1" that you find in the NT that specifically speaks about worship to God - is "every Sabbath" in Acts 18:4 where both Jews and gentiles gather for Gospel preaching and of course in the OT the prediction by God that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Hi BR,
Yes, I know all of the above...I've posted Mathew 5:17 hundreds of times myself regarding easy believism.

I'm happy you posted all of this again. I'm becoming more and more convinced. The fact that it's a commandments seems to be the clincher for me.

Are you a SDA? Do they believe Sunday worshippers are lost? I guess so otherwise why preach against it....

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi BR,
Yes, I know all of the above...I've posted Mathew 5:17 hundreds of times myself regarding easy believism.

I'm happy you posted all of this again. I'm becoming more and more convinced. The fact that it's a commandments seems to be the clincher for me.

Are you a SDA? Do they believe Sunday worshippers are lost? I guess so otherwise why preach against it....

Hello again my friend ,

Sunday worshippers are not lost. Gods people are in every Church. It is like when one is a babe, we do not know all of God's will untill we grow in grace and the knowledge of God's WORD. When we come to Christ we are not held accountable to God for the things he has not yet revealed to us (see James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31)

As long as we are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to us then whatever church we may be in, then we are still his people (John 10:16).

As we grow in grace as Christians, God reveals more of himself to us through his Word so that we canhave a closer walk with him. That also means we start learning about the things in our lives that are stopping us from getting closer to Jesus (sins we did not know were sins before).

We only stop becoming his people when he reveals his Word to us and we choose to reject it. Men love darkness rather than light because their deeds where evil (John 3:19-20).

God knows that many have rejected the 4th commandment out of ignorance because this is what they have been taught since Children handed down from the Mother Church to all Protestantism.

The time is coming and now is however that God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions to follow him according to his WORD...

JOHN 10:16, And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

JOHN 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

REVELATION 14:6-12,
[6], And I saw another angel fly in midheaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
[7], Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
[8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out undiluted into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11], And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
[12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

No one is lost until they have the opportunity to hear God's WORD and choose to reject it in order to continue in a life of known unrepentant sin.

Jesus is always knocking at the door it is up to us to choose to believe and follow his WORD.

God's sheep hear his voice, take up their cross and follow him.

God bless my friend

 

[BobRyan]

Are you a SDA? Do they believe Sunday worshippers are lost? I guess so otherwise why preach against it....

Thank you for that post and for your question!

1. Yes - I am SDA.
2. I believe the Ten Commandments are included in the law of God just as do all major Christian denominations would affirm this basic point. As my signature line also points out ...
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

3. I believe that the Ten Commandment statement against making images, bowing down before them and promising to serve those whom they represent - is still a valid commandment -- and at least one large denomination does do that and is teaching the wrong thing. But that does not mean I think that everyone in that denomination is not saved.

4. Yes I think the Ten Commandments are right about the Sabbath and those who preach against it are wrong. But I do not believe that everyone in those groups opposed to God's commandment are not saved.

5. I believe the Ten Commandment statement against taking God's name in vain is still legit and valid for Christians -- even though it is never quoted in the NT.

I state "the truth" regarding what the Bible says - but I do not argue for this person or that person "not being saved". Unless that person declares war on the Bible by claiming it "themselves" in their own posts. Which almost nobody does.

6. "The bible says" that sin is still defined this way - even in the NT "sin IS transgression of the Law" . 1 John 3:4. I fully agree with that Bible statement.

My objective is to "present what the Bible says" and then let others choose if they will go with the Word of God or will choose to reject it.

BTW - you might enjoy this short-short-summary overview post of mine.
10 minutes ago #4

 

[BobRyan]

All of which brings to mind the question "If the ten commandments are Exodus 20, then why did Moses write the two other versions?"

1. Exodus 20 exists - no matter the efforts of creative conjecture to suppose otherwise.
2. Deut 5 explicitly refers BACK to Exodus 20 says that the words spoken "then" still apply.
4 Exodus 34 is not even remotely a "new Ten Commandments"

Ex 34 says "Now the Lord said to Moses, “Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered"

The much-imagined form of Ex 34 does not exist that says "Now the Lord said to Moses, “Cut out for yourself two stone tablets like the former ones, and I will write on the tablets the words that are entirely different from the former tablets which you shattered, I have had time to re-think those commandments and have come up with a better set of Ten".

Not sure why this is so difficult for some readers.

In Ex 34 God emphasis a few key points including a few of the actual Ten Commandments -- but the text does not say that the added emphasis we see in Ex 34 about Passover etc - was "written in stone as well".

Rather Deut 5 reminds us that only the TEN were written on the stone at Sinai "and he added no more"

Bible details matter.

 

[JackRT]

There are contradictions found in the three versions of the Ten Commandments contained in the Bible (Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17, Deuteronomy 5:1-21). How can all three versions be true if they are not the same? Exodus 34, the oldest version at about 950 BC, is from the pen of the “J” or Jahwist writer and is not one of which many have ever heard. The final commandment in this earliest version reads “You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” Why, we are led to wonder, was this original set of Ten Commandments rejected or replaced? The second version Exodus 20, from about 850 BC, was from the pen of the “E” or Elohist writer, but was greatly expanded about 560 BC by a group of people called the “P” or priestly writers. Did these writers, who added so much to the entire body of the Jewish Scriptures, do so because they judged the original version to be so woefully inadequate that it required major additions and editing? Does one alter or tamper with what one believes to be “The Word of God?” The third version, Deuteronomy 5 in about 625 BC, was from the pen of the “D” or Deuteronomic writers composed somewhere between the original writing of Exodus 20 and the expansion done on that same text some 400 or so years later. For example, the version in Deuteronomy did not offer as the reason the Sabbath must be observed the fact that God rested on the Sabbath, for the version of that seven day creation story had not yet been written. So this author states that the Sabbath is to be observed because the people of Israel must remember that they were once slaves in Egypt and even slaves must have a day of rest. Which of these versions of the Ten Commandments, we might ask, can qualify as “The Word of God?”

Yes, Bible details matter and those details can reveal a very great deal about the authorship and other background or context.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Hello again my friend ,

Sunday worshippers are not lost. Gods people are in every Church. It is like when one is a babe, we do not know all of God's will untill we grow in grace and the knowledge of God's WORD. When we come to Christ we are not held accountable to God for the things he has not yet revealed to us (see James 4:17; Acts 17:30-31)

As long as we are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to us then whatever church we may be in, then we are still his people (John 10:16).

As we grow in grace as Christians, God reveals more of himself to us through his Word so that we canhave a closer walk with him. That also means we start learning about the things in our lives that are stopping us from getting closer to Jesus (sins we did not know were sins before).

We only stop becoming his people when he reveals his Word to us and we choose to reject it. Men love darkness rather than light because their deeds where evil (John 3:19-20).

God knows that many have rejected the 4th commandment out of ignorance because this is what they have been taught since Children handed down from the Mother Church to all Protestantism.

The time is coming and now is however that God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions to follow him according to his WORD...

JOHN 10:16, And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

JOHN 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

REVELATION 14:6-12,
[6], And I saw another angel fly in midheaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
[7], Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment has come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
[8], And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[9], And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10], The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out undiluted into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11], And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
[12], Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

No one is lost until they have the opportunity to hear God's WORD and choose to reject it in order to continu in a life of known unrepentant sin.

Jesus is always knocking at the door it is up to us to choose to believe and follow his WORD.

God's sheep hear his voice, take up their cross and follow him.

God bless my friend

Hi LGW,
Thanks for taking the time for such a nice reply.
I'm on another forum right now and I'm defending the Sabbath! I'm not even totally convinced yet, but I'm starting to be annoyed by those that believe we MUST worship on Sunday and argue with those that do not.
Blessings

 

[GodsGrace101]

Thank you for that post and for your question!

1. Yes - I am SDA.
2. I believe the Ten Commandments are included in the law of God just as do all major Christian denominations would affirm this basic point. As my signature line also points out ...
The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

3. I believe that the Ten Commandment statement against making images, bowing down before them and promising to serve those whom they represent - is still a valid commandment -- and at least one large denomination does do that and is teaching the wrong thing. But that does not mean I think that everyone in that denomination is not saved.

4. Yes I think the Ten Commandments are right about the Sabbath and those who preach against it are wrong. But I do not believe that everyone in those groups opposed to God's commandment are not saved.

5. I believe the Ten Commandment statement against taking God's name in vain is still legit and valid for Christians -- even though it is never quoted in the NT.

I state "the truth" regarding what the Bible says - but I do not argue for this person or that person "not being saved". Unless that person declares war on the Bible by claiming it "themselves" in their own posts. Which almost nobody does.

6. "The bible says" that sin is still defined this way - even in the NT "sin IS transgression of the Law" . 1 John 3:4. I fully agree with that Bible statement.

My objective is to "present what the Bible says" and then let others choose if they will go with the Word of God or will choose to reject it.

BTW - you might enjoy this short-short-summary overview post of mine.
10 minutes ago #4

Hi BR,
I appreciated your no. 5 on the list. I always hear that Jesus, or the Apostles, never mentioned the Sabbath but I cannot remember when taking the name of God in vain was ever mentioned also, and that certainly does not legitimize it.

I also looked through 10 minutes ago #4 but I feel like I pretty much know all the arguments for and against.

I also very much agree with nos. 2 and 6...many today actually say one can lead a sinful life and still be saved. Some on these forums have made this statement. We're getting far from what Jesus represented and what He wanted us to accomplish which is to bring the Kingdom of God here on earth.
John 3:3 Unless we're born again we cannot see the Kingdom of God. We could say it's another "dimension" that can only be seen with our spiritual eyes and to which we can contribute.

Thanks for a great reply!
I agree that it's not our place to declare anyone unsaved, we can only declare that we believe their doctrine to be wrong.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hi LGW,
Thanks for taking the time for such a nice reply.
I'm on another forum right now and I'm defending the Sabbath! I'm not even totally convinced yet, but I'm starting to be annoyed by those that believe we MUST worship on Sunday and argue with those that do not.
Blessings

Arr bout time, but you know Fran, you always were already defending the Sabbath by teaching the ten Commandments and the covenants in the CC forum to the OSAS group that got us unfairly banned because they did not like the scriptures being posted. .

I could see God working through you sharing God's WORD to others. You have a real talent God can use in your clear short replies. I have to say 1000 words to something you can say in the same manner in 10, but I am learning slowly . Something I think I picked up from you and a few others.

Blessings sister put on your armour fight the good fight in love.

Nice to see ya here mate

 

[BobRyan]

Hi LGW,
Thanks for taking the time for such a nice reply.
I'm on another forum right now and I'm defending the Sabbath! I'm not even totally convinced yet, but I'm starting to be annoyed by those that believe we MUST worship on Sunday and argue with those that do not.
Blessings

If you want some help in that regard - give us a PM or pointer and we will help if we can.

 

[GodsGrace101]

If you want some help in that regard - give us a PM or pointer and we will help if we can.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If you want some help in that regard - give us a PM or pointer and we will help if we can.

Not sure if she needs much help Bob, shes pretty smart already

 

[BobRyan]

Not sure if she needs much help Bob, shes pretty smart already

indeed she is.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There are contradictions found in the three versions of the Ten Commandments contained in the Bible (Exodus 34:1-28, Exodus 20:1-17, Deuteronomy 5:1-21). How can all three versions be true if they are not the same? Exodus 34, the oldest version at about 950 BC, is from the pen of the “J” or Jahwist writer and is not one of which many have ever heard. The final commandment in this earliest version reads “You shall not boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” Why, we are led to wonder, was this original set of Ten Commandments rejected or replaced? The second version Exodus 20, from about 850 BC, was from the pen of the “E” or Elohist writer, but was greatly expanded about 560 BC by a group of people called the “P” or priestly writers. Did these writers, who added so much to the entire body of the Jewish Scriptures, do so because they judged the original version to be so woefully inadequate that it required major additions and editing? Does one alter or tamper with what one believes to be “The Word of God?” The third version, Deuteronomy 5 in about 625 BC, was from the pen of the “D” or Deuteronomic writers composed somewhere between the original writing of Exodus 20 and the expansion done on that same text some 400 or so years later. For example, the version in Deuteronomy did not offer as the reason the Sabbath must be observed the fact that God rested on the Sabbath, for the version of that seven day creation story had not yet been written. So this author states that the Sabbath is to be observed because the people of Israel must remember that they were once slaves in Egypt and even slaves must have a day of rest. Which of these versions of the Ten Commandments, we might ask, can qualify as “The Word of God?”

Yes, Bible details matter and those details can reveal a very great deal about the authorship and other background or context.

Hello JackRT, sorry I did not know if I replied to your post or not. I think I did as it sounds familiar. That being said, said there is not any new versions of God's ten commandments. They were however re-written again in stone after Moses smashed them the first time when the children of Israsel made the golden calf idol.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

View attachment 239932

I had something to talk to you about but can't find you now. Let me know when your back sister?

God bless