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Featured Approaches to Eschatology

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Biblewriter, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What does he become?
     
  2. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I have already posted those scriptures. And they completely agree with what the Holy Spirit said through Paul.
     
  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Show me even one scripture that says that circumcising someone makes him an Israelite. You cannot, for there is no such scripture. And if there were such a scripture, then all good Moslems would be Israelites. For they practice circumcision as a religious rite. And most modern American men would also be Israelites, for that is now an almost universal medical practice in the United States.
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does God tell Muslims or anyone else to be circumsized, as He did those in Genesis 17:12?

    If the male in Genesis 17:12 was no different after the circumcision than before, then what was God's point?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  5. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They agree with nothing regarding the remnant (they do not include the word), and Paul's definition and description stand.
     
  6. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Actually, the prophecies concerning this small group of survivors repeatedly use that very word:

    21 The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God. 22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea, A remnant of them will return; The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness. 23 For the Lord GOD of hosts Will make a determined end In the midst of all the land. Isaiah 10:21-23

    1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots. 2 The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. 3 His delight is in the fear of the LORD, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears; 4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. 5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins, And faithfulness the belt of His waist. 6 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD As the waters cover the sea. 10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious." 11 It shall come to pass in that day That the LORD shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left, From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar, From Hamath and the islands of the sea. 12 He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth. 13 Also the envy of Ephraim shall depart, And the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, And Judah shall not harass Ephraim. 14 But they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines toward the west; Together they shall plunder the people of the East; They shall lay their hand on Edom and Moab; And the people of Ammon shall obey them. 15 The LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Sea of Egypt; With His mighty wind He will shake His fist over the River, And strike it in the seven streams, And make men cross over dry-shod. 16 There will be a highway for the remnant of His people Who will be left from Assyria, As it was for Israel In the day that he came up from the land of Egypt. Isaiah 11:1-16


    1 "Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!" says the LORD. 2 Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel against the shepherds who feed My people: "You have scattered My flock, driven them away, and not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your doings," says the LORD. 3 "But I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all countries where I have driven them, and bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. 4 I will set up shepherds over them who will feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, nor shall they be lacking," says the LORD. Jeremiah 23:1-4


    7 For thus says the LORD: "Sing with gladness for Jacob, And shout among the chief of the nations; Proclaim, give praise, and say, 'O LORD, save Your people, The remnant of Israel!' 8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, And gather them from the ends of the earth, Among them the blind and the lame, The woman with child And the one who labors with child, together; A great throng shall return there. 9 They shall come with weeping, And with supplications I will lead them. I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters, In a straight way in which they shall not stumble; For I am a Father to Israel, And Ephraim is My firstborn. Jeremiah 31:7-9


    12 "I will surely assemble all of you, O Jacob, I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together like sheep of the fold, Like a flock in the midst of their pasture; They shall make a loud noise because of so many people. Micah 2:12

    6 "In that day," says the LORD, "I will assemble the lame, I will gather the outcast And those whom I have afflicted; 7 I will make the lame a remnant, And the outcast a strong nation; So the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion From now on, even forever. Micah 4:6-7


    3 Therefore He shall give them up, Until the time that she who is in labor has given birth; Then the remnant of His brethren Shall return to the children of Israel. 4 And He shall stand and feed His flock In the strength of the LORD, In the majesty of the name of the LORD His God; And they shall abide, For now He shall be great To the ends of the earth; Micah 5:3-4


    7 Then the remnant of Jacob Shall be in the midst of many peoples, Like dew from the LORD, Like showers on the grass, That tarry for no man Nor wait for the sons of men. 8 And the remnant of Jacob Shall be among the Gentiles, In the midst of many peoples, Like a lion among the beasts of the forest, Like a young lion among flocks of sheep, Who, if he passes through, Both treads down and tears in pieces, And none can deliver. 9 Your hand shall be lifted against your adversaries, And all your enemies shall be cut off. Micah 5:7-9


    8 Because you have plundered many nations, All the remnant of the people shall plunder you, Because of men's blood And the violence of the land and the city, And of all who dwell in it. Habakkuk 2:8


    7 The coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; They shall feed their flocks there; In the houses of Ashkelon they shall lie down at evening. For the LORD their God will intervene for them, And return their captives. 8 "I have heard the reproach of Moab, And the insults of the people of Ammon, With which they have reproached My people, And made arrogant threats against their borders. 9 Therefore, as I live," Says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "Surely Moab shall be like Sodom, And the people of Ammon like Gomorrah-- Overrun with weeds and saltpits, And a perpetual desolation. The residue of My people shall plunder them, And the remnant of My people shall possess them." Zephaniah 2:7-9


    10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, The daughter of My dispersed ones, Shall bring My offering. 11 In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain. 12 I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the LORD. 13 The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid." Zephaniah 3:10-13


    11 'But now I will not treat the remnant of this people as in the former days,' says the LORD of hosts. 12 'For the seed shall be prosperous, The vine shall give its fruit, The ground shall give her increase, And the heavens shall give their dew-- I will cause the remnant of this people To possess all these. 13 And it shall come to pass That just as you were a curse among the nations, O house of Judah and house of Israel, So I will save you, and you shall be a blessing. Do not fear, Let your hands be strong.' 14 "For thus says the LORD of hosts: 'Just as I determined to punish you When your fathers provoked Me to wrath,' Says the LORD of hosts, 'And I would not relent, 15 So again in these days I am determined to do good To Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. Do not fear. Zechariah 8:11-15
     
  7. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    mispost deleted by poster
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  8. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    mispost deleted by poster
     
  9. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    mispost deleted by poster

    Sorry - am having computer problems.
     
  10. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    Israel is also called God's elect:


    4 For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me. Isaiah 45:4

    9 I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, And from Judah an heir of My mountains; My elect shall inherit it, And My servants shall dwell there. Isaiah 65:9

    20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them. Isaiah 65:20-23
     
  11. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Isaiah 65
    15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

    Acts 11
    26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

    Israel was comprised of two groups, the faithful and obedient, and the unfaithful and disobedient.
    The latter invariably ended up prematurely dead. (Hebrews 10:28).

    Which group was the elect?
     
  12. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The prophetic scriptures could not be more clear in explicitly stating that in a coming day most of that rebellious nation will be killed, and that all the rest of them will repent and turn to God with their whole heart. Those that will repent are the elect.
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    In context...

    The beginning of the passage and the end of the passage reveal this to be a description of the New Heavens, and the New Earth, with the curse being lifted.

    The beginning of verse 20 is a negative statement, which means that none of the things that follow the word "thence" will be found in the New Heavens, and the New Earth.


    Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
    Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
    Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
    Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
    Isa 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
    Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
    Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
    Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
    Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

    .
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Then why not cite those Scriptures?
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Which remnant is "the sum total of all the Israelites that have survived the time of trouble"?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  16. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So the covenant faithful and obedient were and are not the elect?

    Paul said the elect remnant was already present.

    No need to wait for "those that will repent".

    Romans 11:5
    Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  17. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I did not just cite them I actually quoted them, right in this very thread.
     
  18. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The point of quoting this was not when this promise will be fulfilled, but that Israel is distinctly called "my elect."
     
  19. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    I said nothing about whom God's other elect are. I only stressed that the elect are not just the elect of this present day, but God's chosen of all ages.
     
  20. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Profoundly true.

    An excerpt from Isaiah 65:9 in the ancient Hebrew:
    "...My servants My chosen shall inherit it".

    God's servants are His chosen (elect).

    The faithful and obedient are His servants.

    The unfaithful and disobedient are not His servants.

    Both groups were found within Israel.
     
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