Anyone have good arguments against Calvinism.

[Hoping2]

Willingly choosing what one prefers is not the meaning of coercion. . .plain and simple.

I agree.
If someone decides what I prefer though, it isn't really my will.

 

[Clare73]

I agree.
If someone decides what I prefer though, it isn't really my will.

Review the meaning of "will."

 

[Hoping2]

Review the meaning of "will."

Want, or desire, would make good synonyms.

 

[Clare73]

Want, or desire, would make good synonyms.

"Will" is the power to make choices.

Totally free will is the power to make all moral choices.

Fallen man's will is not totally free, he cannot make the moral choice to be sinless. . .Adam could.

Man's free will is now limited by his sin nature.

 

[tall73]

When presented with verses like 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 2:4 they suddenly attribute God two wills, thereby commanding what He would not have.

Another verse that often leads to such discussion:

Luke 7:30​

30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him. (NKJV)​

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[Hoping2]

"Will" is the power to make choices.

Using that definition, did you make the choice to follow Calvinism ?

.Totally free will is the power to make all moral choices.

Thank God for that, or repentance from sin would be a wasted gift from God.

Fallen man's will is not totally free, he cannot make the moral choice to be sinless. . .Adam could.

Every choice he makes is done at his will.
Steak or fish for dinner ?
I want steak !

Man's free will is now limited by his sin nature.

I do not believe that for a second.
How were the three thousand "limited" on the day of Pentecost ?
Or the "many" at Corinth ?
Why are we supposed to preach to unbelievers, if they cannot accept our message ?

Repentance from sin is a choice the sanctified have made.
So is baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
It should be obvious that baptism is a choice, as there are so many unbelievers fighting against its necessity; presenting alternatives to it.

 

[Clare73]

Using that definition, did you make the choice to follow Calvinism ?

Actually, I chose to follow Paul. . .was not familiar with Calvin at the time.
And that choice was absolutely and only by the operation of the Holy Spirit.

Thank God for that, or repentance from sin would be a wasted gift from God.
Every choice he makes is done at his will.
Steak or fish for dinner ?
I want steak !

And the choice to be sinless. . .

Non-responsive.

I do not believe that for a second.
How were the three thousand "limited" on the day of Pentecost ?
Or the "many" at Corinth ?
Why are we supposed to preach to unbelievers, if they cannot accept our message ?

We preach for those among them who have ears that can hear.

Repentance from sin is a choice the sanctified have made.

Do the unsanctified make that choice?

 

[Hoping2]

Actually, I chose to follow Paul. . .was not familiar with Calvin at the time.
And that choice was absolutely and only by the operation of the Holy Spirit.

I am glad you made that choice.

And the choice to be sinless. . .

Absolutely.
It is written..."Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)
Our choices will be manifested on the day of judgement.

Non-responsive.

I chose to respond.

We preach for those among them who have ears that can hear.

Some will make the proper choice, to the glory of God and the name of Jesus Christ.

Do the unsanctified make that choice?

The unsanctified have opted to remain in sin.

 

[tall73]

Fallen man's will is not totally free, he cannot make the moral choice to be sinless. . .Adam could.

If Adam had a choice, and I agree he did, then God's sovereignty is not lessened by His allowing choice for people.

So there is no conflict with God's decree, and God allowing choice, within the parameters He ordains.

Now God certainly knew Adam and Eve would sin. And if the Lamb of God was slain from the foundation of the world, He then knew that redemption would involve sending His Son.

Man's free will is now limited by his sin nature.

It is quite true that the man in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:7-8 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (NKJV)​

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Even in that passage, the solution is in Christ and what He did. We have to be in Christ and set our mind on the Spirit.

Romans 8:1-4 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NKJV)​

But, as @Hoping2 referenced, God's solution to the problem of the fall is to repent, believe the Gospel, be Baptized into Christ's death, also be joined to His resurrection to new life. Then we can access that new life in the Spirit when we consider ourselves dead to sin. We can then bear fruit by the Spirit.

Luke 24:46-47 46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (NKJV)​

Acts 2:38-39 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” (NKJV)​

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Acts 3:18-26​

18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.” (NKJV)​

Acts 17:30-31​

30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (NKJV)​

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Acts 20:18-21 18 And when they had come to him, he said to them: “You know, from the first day that I came to Asia, in what manner I always lived among you, 19 serving the Lord with all humility, with many tears and trials which happened to me by the plotting of the Jews; 20 how I kept back nothing that was helpful, but proclaimed it to you, and taught you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (NKJV)​

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Acts 26:19-20 19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. (NKJV)​

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2 Peter 3:7-9 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (NKJV)​

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[Clare73]

I am glad you made that choice.

Absolutely.

I cannot choose to be sinless. . .can you?

Then our wills are not totally free, their freedom is limited by our fallen nature.

 

[Clare73]

If Adam had a choice, and I agree he did, then God's sovereignty is not lessened by His allowing choice for people.

Who said it did?

How did God's sovereignty get into this?

 

[Hoping2]

I cannot choose to be sinless. . .can you?

Of course I can !
God gave us the gift of repentance, i.e.. turning from, in this, case sin.
I chose to turn from sin ! Permanently.
The only reason to continue sinning, is because one WANTS TO keep sinning.

Then our wills are not totally free, their freedom is limited by our fallen nature.

Our fallen nature was destroyed with the old man. (Rom 6:4)
It was circumcised by the circumcision done without hands.
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11)
We are new creatures, and..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
All things includes natures !

No longer having been born of Adam's seed, we can go on in this life having been reborn of God's seed...in whom is no fallen nature.
...unless one doesn't want to.
There is the choice again.

 

[Clare73]

Of course I can !
God gave us the gift of repentance,

You don't need repentance if you are sinless. . .so the answer to the question is that we are not free to be sinless.

 

[tall73]

Who said it did?

How did God's sovereignty get into this?

Sovereignty, and how it relates to free will, is part of the overall topic. I was just noting that your response that Adam could choose such indicates what side you come down on for that particular aspect of the discussion.

 

[Hoping2]

You don't need repentance if you are sinless. . .so the answer to the question is that we are not free to be sinless.

One real, genuine, permanent repentance, precludes further sin.
God wouldn't have gifted us with such power, if it weren't possible to choose to accept it.

 

[Clare73]

One real, genuine, permanent repentance, precludes further sin.
God wouldn't have gifted us with such power, if it weren't possible to choose to accept it.

So you always love you neighbor as yourself, are always patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle and self-controlled.
Does your spouse agree with that?

 

[Hoping2]

So you always love you neighbor as yourself, are always patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle and self-controlled.
Does your spouse agree with that?

Not married.
Did not God and His Son provide all we need to accomplish that on your list ?
Yes He did; and I use all His grace, Spirit, and word to remain always pleasing to Him.
It is written..."But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)
And..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
Do you want to be like that ?

 

[boughtwithaprice]

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It is belief in Jesus that gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. If you do not believe me, maybe you will believe The Gospel of John.

Repentance is for avoiding a punishment from God and it is for believers and unbelievers.

I don’t completely agree with that assessment.
Repentance is not only for avoiding punishment, but is an act of love for Jesus. As He said, if you love me, keep my commandments. We love Him by obeying Him.
If you look at it this way, Jesus died for all of our sins, and by His stripes we are healed. Out of ignorance it can be excused and is the act of God’s love toward us; however, if we deny repentance once we have come to the knowledge of the truth, we deny love for Jesus and would rather see Him continually beat with stripes in order that we may be healed. If we do that, how can we say that we love Him?

No, repentance is not just it avoid punishment, but out of love for Jesus and not wishing to see Him continually beat for our transgressions

Scripture says that if we sin willfully, we crucify the Lord afresh and bring Him to open shame. I don’t know how repentance can be denied or written off as merely to avoid punishment

 

[Hentenza]

Not married.
Did not God and His Son provide all we need to accomplish that on your list ?
Yes He did; and I use all His grace, Spirit, and word to remain always pleasing to Him.
It is written..."But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)
And..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
Do you want to be like that ?

You are talking about the lifelong journey for sanctification. You have been justified but not sanctified yet. Also John tells us the following in his epistle.

“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

1 John 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all | New American Standard Bible - NAS

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all

bible.com

 

[d taylor]

I don’t completely agree with that assessment.
Repentance is not only for avoiding punishment, but is an act of love for Jesus. As He said, if you love me, keep my commandments. We love Him by obeying Him.
If you look at it this way, Jesus died for all of our sins, and by His stripes we are healed. Out of ignorance it can be excused and is the act of God’s love toward us; however, if we deny repentance once we have come to the knowledge of the truth, we deny love for Jesus and would rather see Him continually beat with stripes in order that we may be healed. If we do that, how can we say that we love Him?

No, repentance is not just it avoid punishment, but out of love for Jesus and not wishing to see Him continually beat for our transgressions

Scripture says that if we sin willfully, we crucify the Lord afresh and bring Him to open shame. I don’t know how repentance can be denied or written off as merely to avoid punishment

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Repentance is certainly not for receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. God has stated receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life is by belief in Jesus.

So repentance is for a believer who is sinning, to reestablish a broken relationship with God their Father. That has been broken because of their sin. If they do not repent God may bring punishment and judgment upon the sinning believer even take their earthly life. Read all of Hebrews 10:26->

For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.