Anyone have a brief overview of what is to come?

Choose Wisely said:

What changes are you referring to? Please provide scriptural backup..

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You add too much to what others say to trust you with important information. You subtract and add too much changing the meaning of what was said originally. Start to choose wisely your words and I’d be more inclined to trust you with valuable info.

Dorothy Mae said:

You infer what I never said sane as you infer what Paul never said. You don’t really choose wisely, do you? Your inferences are way off from the truth.

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Well point me in the right direction ......Is the Church Israel? Is the 144,000 the Church? Is there no catching away? Did it all happen in 70AD?

Dorothy Mae said:

You add too much to what others say to trust you with important information. You subtract and add too much changing the meaning of what was said originally. Start to choose wisely your words and I’d be more inclined to trust you with valuable info.

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So are you saying that you did not infer that you work hard and others don't.

Choose Wisely said:

Well point me in the right direction ......Is the Church Israel? Is the 144,000 the Church? Is there no catching away? Did it all happen in 70AD?

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No...no....not interested...what Jesus predicted happened but that doesn’t mean how modern people embellish it is what happened.

Choose Wisely said:

So are you saying that you did not infer that you work hard and others don't.

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No, you added that.

BABerean2 said:

In Galatians 3:16-29 the Apostle Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

The law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul compels the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

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The Sinai covenant is where we find "Do NOT take God's Name in vain"
And -- "Do not bow down to false gods"
And -- "Do not covet"
And -- "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

And also in the LAW of Moses we have this
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
etc.

Eph 6:2 reminds NT saints that this LAW is STILL applicable with the "first commandment with a promise" being the 5th commandment.

Gal 3 points out that the phrase "until the LAW came" refers to "untill LAW written on stone"... not "LAW in existence". Thus it was always "sin" -- to take God's name in vain. It did not suddenly "Become sin" at Sinai.

Galatians 4 and Galatians 3 are absolutely not telling us to ignore the commandments of God -- though some have argued for such wild ideas.

The NEW Covenant is in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and in Hebrews 8:6-12 where we find it is "unchanged" from its OT form. It writes the LAW of God known to Jeremiah on the "heart and mind"

"31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,.. I will write My LAW on their heart and on their mind." Jer 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:6-12.

Not merely "external on stone" as at Sinai with the nation - but "ON the heart" - the new creation, the New Birth, the New heart. Written on tablets of the human heart.

Exegesis demands that the term "LAW" be that which Jeremiah and his readers would have known at the time of Jeremiah 31.

Bible details matter.

Dave L said:

There is nothing yet unfulfilled before he returns. It could be today.

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Nope

There is the Rev 16 seven last plagues that have not happened yet -- that must happen before the Rev 19 second coming event will take place.

And there is the Rev 13-14 issue of the mark of the beast that has not happened yet - before the second coming event also described at the end of Rev 14 ... and also in Rev 19.

At the time of John the baptizer even John believed the Messiah would come to conquer the Romans and establish Israel as the greatest nation on Earth -- then later John found out that Christ came to die for the sins of the world.

Truth does not change. But the understanding of Truth did/does change.

Dave L said:

We must make John's symbolism reflect the unchangeable truth held by Him, Jesus and the rest of the Apostles and writers of the NT, or confusion (as we have today), results.

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No NT writer states "there is no millennium" just like no prophet and even John the baptizer did not claim "the messiah will not die for the sins of the world" .

They never stated the denial of truth (unchanging truth) that would later be revealed to them, even though they had not yet discovered it.

Dave L said:

Proof? Revelation 20 needs interpretation so interpretation does not count.

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circular argument.

It is like saying "scripture needs to be read - so reading scripture doesn't count" -- you are offering a form of creative writing to discount scripture.

BobRyan said:

circular argument.

It is like saying "scripture needs to be read - so reading scripture doesn't count" -- you are offering a form of creative writing to discount scripture.

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If your interpretation of a physical kingdom contradicts Jesus' claiming the kingdom is purely spiritual, whom are we to believe?

BobRyan said:

At the time of John the baptizer even John believed the Messiah would come to conquer the Romans and establish Israel as the greatest nation on Earth -- then later John found out that Christ came to die for the sins of the world.

Truth does not change. But the understanding of Truth did/does change.



No NT writer states "there is no millennium" just like no prophet and even John the baptizer did not claim "the messiah will not die for the sins of the world" .

They never stated the denial of truth (unchanging truth) that would later be revealed to them, even though they had not yet discovered it.

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Even the disciples misunderstood, holding your views, until Jesus set them straight.

BobRyan said:

Nope

There is the Rev 16 seven last plagues that have not happened yet -- that must happen before the Rev 19 second coming event will take place.

And there is the Rev 13-14 issue of the mark of the beast that has not happened yet - before the second coming event also described at the end of Rev 14 ... and also in Rev 19.

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You will never see it in a million years if you are waiting for the symbol to appear. It is what the symbol represents that you can see fulfilled in history, the present, and know what to expect in the future.

JohnB445 said:

What was the most recent prophesy that has been fulfilled or is being now?

What are we to expect in the Future?

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Psalm 46
6 The nations are in chaos,
and their kingdoms crumble!

Matthew 24
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Dave L said:

Rapture follows thew resurrection on the last day.
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–18)

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That is true -- Christ appears, there is the resurrection of the righteous and than all the saints both living and those that were just raised from the dead are caught up in the air and taken to heaven with Christ.

Dave L said:

There is nothing yet unfulfilled before he returns. It could be today.

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Nope

There is the Rev 16 seven last plagues that have not happened yet -- that must happen before the Rev 19 second coming event will take place.

And there is the Rev 13-14 issue of the mark of the beast that has not happened yet - before the second coming event also described at the end of Rev 14 ... and also in Rev 19.

Dave L said:

You will never see it in a million years if you are waiting for the symbol to appear. .

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God is literal in the book of Revelation, the saints are literal, the devill is literal, the wicked are literal , the Earth is usually literal...

Just because "a symbol is ever used" in a given book - does not give one license to spiritualize everything in the book into oblivion.

So then Revelation 16

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Then I heard a loud voice from {the temple}(lit), saying to {the seven angels} (lit), “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the {wrath of God} (lit).”

2 So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on {the earth}(lit); and it became a {loathsome and malignant sore on the people}(lit) who had the mark of the beast and {who worshiped}(lit) his image.

3 The {second angel}(lit) poured out his bowl into the {sea, and it became blood like}(it) LIKE that of a dead man; and {every living soul in the sea died}(lit).

4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the {rivers and the springs of waters; and they became blood}(lit). 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, {“Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things; 6 for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it.”} (lit) 7 And I heard the altar saying,{ “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”}(lit)

8 The fourth angel poured out his bowl upon {the sun, and it was given to it to scorch men with fire}(lit). 9 {Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.}(lit)

10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and {they gnawed their tongues because of pain, 11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.}(lit)

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east.

Armageddon
13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for {they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.}(lit) 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”) 16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

Seventh Bowl of Wrath
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl upon the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, “It is done.” 18 And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and {there was a great earthquake, such as there had not been since man came to be upon the earth, so great an earthquake was it, and so mighty. 19 The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell}(lit). Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of His fierce wrath. 20 And {every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And huge hailstones, about one hundred pounds each, *came down from heaven upon men; and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, because its plague *was extremely severe.} (lit-literal)

BobRyan said:

The NEW Covenant is in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and in Hebrews 8:6-12 where we find it is "unchanged" from its OT form. It writes the LAW of God known to Jeremiah on the "heart and mind"

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Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,


In your case the bondwoman of Galatians 4 is the so-called "prophetess", Ellen G. White, instead of Hagar.

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Choose Wisely said:

.Is the Church Israel?

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Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.


1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

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BobRyan said:

That is true -- Christ appears, there is the resurrection of the righteous and than all the saints both living and those that were just raised from the dead are caught up in the air and taken to heaven with Christ.

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'taken to heaven'?
Either show us plainly where that verse, or any verse, says there will be a 'rapture to heaven', or if you can't, then retract and apologize for your error.

keras said:

'taken to heaven'?
Either show us plainly where that verse, or any verse, says there will be a 'rapture to heaven', or if you can't, then retract and apologize for your error.

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Matthew 5:16
glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven;

"IN My Father's house are many mansions. I GO to prepare A PLACE for you - and if I go to prepare a place for you - I will come again to RECEIVE you to Myself that WHERE I am THERE you may be also" John 14:1-3

Matthew 6 "Our Father who dwells IN HEAVEN"
Matthew 18:14 "your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish."
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple

John 14:12 "I GO to the Father"

Luke 24 -
While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven.

Acts 7:55 But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;

Eph 6: knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.
1 Pet 3:22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven

John 13
33 Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’ ... “Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later.

Mark 10:21
Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Luke 12:33 “Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven

Phil 3:20: For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ

Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven

1 Peter 1:4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

Hebrews 11 14 For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15 And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

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1. Jesus went to heaven.
2. Jesus said our citizenship is in heaven.
3. Jesus said He GOES to heaven to prepare A PLACE for us -
4. then comes back to take us - to receive us up to Him -
5. that WHERE He is THERE in that place - we may BE also.

keras said:

'taken to heaven'?
Either show us plainly where that verse, or any verse, says there will be a 'rapture to heaven', or if you can't, then retract and apologize for your error.

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Given those texts - I have no need to retract scripture or apologize for what it says about the fact that Jesus returns to take the saints to heaven.

1 Thess 4
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so (in this way / because of this rapture event) we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.