Anyone ever convert a typical fridge into a freezer?

[Richard T]

As some meat plants are closing temporarily because their workers are contracting CVID-19, it looks like there may be more and deeper shortages of all types of meats. Today I shopped for a freezer and stores like Home Depot have them backordered at least until July. What I was wondering is if it is possible to convert a typical refrigerator that has a smaller freezer, into a whole freezer compartment? What would happen if you took out the divider between the two compartments? I have a generator to run essentials and just want to beef up my prepping.

 

[mnorian]

As some meat plants are closing temporarily because their workers are contracting CVID-19, it looks like there may be more and deeper shortages of all types of meats. Today I shopped for a freezer and stores like Home Depot have them backordered at least until July. What I was wondering is if it is possible to convert a typical refrigerator that has a smaller freezer, into a whole freezer compartment? What would happen if you took out the divider between the two compartments? I have a generator to run essentials and just want to beef up my prepping.

As an old TV/Appliance repairmen; it would not have enough cooling capacity to freeze the whole unit down to the sub-zero temp's needed for long term meat storage.

Most foods will maintain good quality longer if the freezer temperature is -10 to -20°F. At temperatures between 0 and 32°F, food deteriorates more rapidly. Fluctuating temperatures, such as those in self-defrosting freezers, also may damage food quality. Do not plan to store frozen foods for the maximum suggested time if your freezing unit cannot maintain at least zero degree temperatures.

Also; most refrigerators are stand-up types; for a freezer; you want a chest-type; so the cold air doesn't "fall" out when you open the door.

 

[Aussie Pete]

As some meat plants are closing temporarily because their workers are contracting CVID-19, it looks like there may be more and deeper shortages of all types of meats. Today I shopped for a freezer and stores like Home Depot have them backordered at least until July. What I was wondering is if it is possible to convert a typical refrigerator that has a smaller freezer, into a whole freezer compartment? What would happen if you took out the divider between the two compartments? I have a generator to run essentials and just want to beef up my prepping.

If you turn the fridge down to the lowest setting, it will probably freeze, but not down to the real cold of the freezer. Taking out the divider may help. It would place a strain on the compressor so it would be running for a lot longer than normal. A refrigeration expert may be better able to advise. You may well find a forum where you could ask that question.

 

[paul1149]

Would turning the unit down on its back and adding foam insulation on the outside help?

 

[Francis Drake]

I had a modern fridge that ceased working. I had a look at the compressor at the back and shorted the wires direct and it immediately ran with no trouble. Unfortunately, like many white goods these days it was far from simple to replace the thermostat because it all connected via a complicated electronic circuit board, which cost more than a new fridge.

So I spent around £5 on an old fashioned capillary thermostat and knob. I got rid of all the fancy circuitry and then attached the new thermostat to the inside wall of the fridge and it has worked perfectly ever since.

A fridge and freezer are virtually no different in circuitry. However I suspect your thermostat won't go to a low enough temperature to freeze the whole cabinet. In which case, just replace the stat like I did.

 

[mnorian]

Would turning the unit down on its back and adding foam insulation on the outside help?

A lot of refrig units work work on their back or side.

In fact the last refrigerator I bought had a warning label; saying if had been in any position but upright; it needed to be set in it's up right position for 24hrs before being turned on; to let the refrigerant to settle down in it's proper position.

 

[paul1149]

A ha. Good to know. Thanks. How about the insulation idea?

 

[Sophrosyne]

Having spent a ton of time working on an old side by side fridge trying to keep it working I agree with most here that fridges with a separate freezer compartment typically the cold air goes into the freezer part mostly then a fraction of the cold air goes to the fridge part. You can get the whole fridge down to freezing temperatures but as was said keeping them at low enough temperatures so you can open the door and maintain it for foods that require keeping frozen is not really doable long term unless the fridge doesn't have a defrost mode that will
have it raising the temp overall to defrost it and the food on the fridge side will creep towards and probably over freezing during that time.
As for the waiting a day to run a fridge that was moved/stored on its side it is more because of the oil in the compressor than the freon. Oil typically circulates in most compressors with the freon with most of it sits in the compressor itself but tilting it will allow the oil in the compressor to spill out into the pipes and it takes awhile for it to drain back into the compressor. A dry compressor will overheat and burn out while a compressor that is low on freon will likely just shut off. Freon in systems typically balance out in pressure throughout the whole system over time on both intake and outflow sides of the compressor it is a sealed system and when balanced out there is essentially no liquid freon that happens when it is under pressure.
Basically speaking you may be "ok" turning your fridge down and adjusting dampers to get the fridge side to freezing with some frozen foods but most meats and other foods would probably spoil over time due to the defrost cycling with the fridge side at a lot higher temperature. Your electric bill for the fridge would be a lot higher
and it is very likely it would wear the fridge out a lot sooner than normal plus it would also require more space to
get rid of a lot more heat in some settings. I think compressors on fridges are probably not large enough to properly maintain it as a freezer long term if you could get it to work anyway.
As for the insulation idea..... fridges already have enough insulation to begin with adding extra probably would not make but a few percentage more capability. If you could turn off the defrost cycle on a fridge and crank it up
and adjust the damper to direct air to fridge side equally you may be able to get it to work. on side by side fridges
you have the advantage you can usually direct air to the bins at the bottom of the fridge from the freezer by opening a damper there too. When I was tinkering with my fridge trying to get it working I was given the wrong thermostat for it and did freeze some stuff in it as it did get too cold.

 

[paul1149]

I have an older unit, ref. over freezer, and I had it turned down recently until I discovered the produce in the lowest ref. baskets was beginning to freeze. I was amazed.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I have an older unit, ref. over freezer, and I had it turned down recently until I discovered the produce in the lowest ref. baskets was beginning to freeze. I was amazed.

That will happen but as I said the farther you get from the air inlet(s) the warmer the food is and the defrost cycle in the freezer will make the overall temperatures on both sides vary during it. The defrost cycle will raise the temp in the freezer but not enough to thaw food there but on the fridge side the change in temperature overall during the cycle will most likely have food thawing some perhaps the food nearest the air inlet may stay frozen but I almost guarantee food half farthest away will barely freeze and thaw easily during the cycle. A freezer that is the same size of your fridge/freezer will have a larger compressor and coil for sure. The size of the compressor can help determine how fast it can drop the temperature and when a defrost cycle occurs the freezer side will drop quicker and the fridge side slower as less cold air is usually vented to the fridge side. Any food that is on the freezer side will be frozen again or kept froze while the fridge side will freeze/thaw over and over again and probably "burn" foods also.

 

[paul1149]

Dedicated freezers have defrost cycles too, don't they? But I get your point - the dedicated freezer is designed to do one job efficiently and well. One idea I've toyed with (in my head) is if I ever have a homestead right by a babbling brook, to place the coils remotely, in the brook, for maximum heat transfer to the cool water. I don't know if that's feasible.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Dedicated freezers have defrost cycles too, don't they? But I get your point - the dedicated freezer is designed to do one job efficiently and well. One idea I've toyed with (in my head) is if I ever have a homestead right by a babbling brook, to place the coils remotely, in the brook, for maximum heat transfer to the cool water. I don't know if that's feasible.

No, not all dedicated freezers have defrost cycles. I have not seen any chest freezers that have any defrost on them, and it used to be (back in the 70s) that most upright freezers did not have defrost in them and a lot of fridges did not have defrost either thus they labeled those who did have built in defrost... frost free.
I haven't been shopping for upright freezers at all due to the cost vs a chest freezer so I'm not sure about defrost on them could be all of them have it or only some of them have it. IMO if you do get an upright freezer consider the frost free (with defrost cycling) one as it will save you a huge hassle later having to take everything out to get the ice off the coils manually.
As for your idea of putting coils in the creek there is several issues I can think of.... a long run of tubing requires more freon and probably larger tubing and maybe a larger more powerful compressor to pump it over the long distance meaning a larger coil it would probably take some engineering to get it to work properly and even if it works well may cancel out some of the savings and if the creek dries up and your system relies on it then your food would spoil. One other issue is warmer coils in water could attract stuff and over time you may end up having to clean the coils off of junk like moss and perhaps oxidation being in the water.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Oh BTW a frost free freezer (not fridge) will have no issues with food thawing out normally. All freezers and fridges with defrost cycling can have that part not work but typically when that happens they no longer will defrost and for a freezer you rarely get in/out of that probably isn't a huge problem but for a fridge it can make you soon desire to get it fixed as it ices up and slowly loses the ability to keep the fridge start cool enough.

 

[paul1149]

Yes, it would have to be right next to the stream, or perhaps divert a flow from the stream via a drainage pipe to the coils. But if the flow dried up I would think the coils would then operate in air, as was originally intended, with no problem. Of course they would have to be kept out of the sunlight. As for cleaning, I would think it would be easier than it currently is under the fridge.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I'm not really sure how it would work like that, it may be that you would have more cooling power than the coils inside the fridge could use and that it would end up running in a lot of short bursts instead of a sustained longer run. On home AC systems you try and match the load (area to be cooled) with the system such that you cool things gradually and evenly at a rate that takes awhile and if you for instance have twice the cooling power and airflow to acommodate it you could cool off things quickly along the major air path but in areas off the path it would still be warm and not as well cooled. A fridge that has too powerful of cooling the blower may not run as long and it may make for the fridge part to be more unevenly cooled that food in the area that is farthest from the air flow would actually be warmer and possibly even the freezer part farther away also wouldn't get as cold.
It is possible that you may have to actually change both coils, the compressor and the blower fan and adjust the venting and thermostat to accomplish this "savings".

 

[Sophrosyne]

IF only using a freezer you may have to change parts also as freon cooling systems they try and balance both the input and output loads that is as the method of removing heat is increased so must the method of cooling increased if they get too off balance you can end up with a lot of cycling which can wear a compressor out faster.
In other words a well engineered fridge/freezer is designed to cycle the compressor at an optimal rate and cool the interior at an optimal rate to obtain the most even cooling and tampering with it can make it actually perform worse even though you may save money on power you may actually spend more on food going bad sooner.

 

[paul1149]

That's an excellent point about water cooling potentially being "too effective", causing a load imbalance leading to short-cycling. I had a customer once who put in a too powerful oil burner. When it ran it was loud, and it was frequently starting and stopping. Very unhappy situation.

So maybe the solution is to build a freezer room, and put the cooling unit together from scratch.

Or maybe wait until the current crisis is over, when appliance sales might return.

 

[Sophrosyne]

That's an excellent point about water cooling potentially being "too effective", causing a load imbalance leading to short-cycling. I had a customer once who put in a too powerful oil burner. When it ran it was loud, and it was frequently starting and stopping. Very unhappy situation.

So maybe the solution is to build a freezer room, and put the cooling unit together from scratch.

Or maybe wait until the current crisis is over, when appliance sales might return.

If you could keep the room cooler somehow the freezer wouldn't warm up and need the compressor to run as often to cool it off. If your house is needing AC then instead of focusing on saving money on a freezer it is a lot easier to save money on cooling a house you have a lot greater potential.

 

[Richard T]

As an old TV/Appliance repairmen; it would not have enough cooling capacity to freeze the whole unit down to the sub-zero temp's needed for long term meat storage.

Most foods will maintain good quality longer if the freezer temperature is -10 to -20°F. At temperatures between 0 and 32°F, food deteriorates more rapidly. Fluctuating temperatures, such as those in self-defrosting freezers, also may damage food quality. Do not plan to store frozen foods for the maximum suggested time if your freezing unit cannot maintain at least zero degree temperatures.

Also; most refrigerators are stand-up types; for a freezer; you want a chest-type; so the cold air doesn't "fall" out when you open the door.

Thanks for the reply. I would only try this as a last resort and after thinking about it, if one were to turn the fridge part on the highest setting and then drill a few holes in the freezer section so air would leak through into the fridge part, could I maybe get the whole unit down to 25 degrees? According to your data, the that temperature would not be cold enough for long term, but would meat keep for a few months at 25 degrees? Also, if this was just an overflow for extra meat, I could perhaps only open it 1x a day.
If you thought this was still too much for the freezer compressor, what if I did the same thing but filled up part of the fridge part with spray foam insulation. It would reduce the cubic feet but I could expand the freezer by 2X or 3X normal, I would think.

 

[mnorian]

Thanks for the reply. I would only try this as a last resort and after thinking about it, if one were to turn the fridge part on the highest setting and then drill a few holes in the freezer section so air would leak through into the fridge part, could I maybe get the whole unit down to 25 degrees? According to your data, the that temperature would not be cold enough for long term, but would meat keep for a few months at 25 degrees? Also, if this was just an overflow for extra meat, I could perhaps only open it 1x a day.
If you thought this was still too much for the freezer compressor, what if I did the same thing but filled up part of the fridge part with spray foam insulation. It would reduce the cubic feet but I could expand the freezer by 2X or 3X normal, I would think.

The reason combination freezer/refrigerators can use frost-free freezer compartments; is that they are designed to only keep food down to between 0 and around 25 degrees F. That's so you ca take a roast or frozen poultry out of the freezer and be able in a hour or two of defrosting on the kitchen sink; and be able to cut it up to cook the meat. Meat in a frost-freezer should only be kept about a month before using.

But if you want to store meat for longer periods; from 2-6 months you want a dedicated long term freezer; in conjunction with a frost-free one. The best are; imho; chest freezers with large enough compressor to kept the food well below 0 degrees at all times -10F to -20F for the best long term storage.

So your DIY freezer would probably be OK for short term storage; a month or less. And instead of filling up the un-used space with foam insulation; fill it up with gallon milk jugs of drinking water; once they are frozen; they are a great "cold-sink" to store the cold when you need to open the door.

Also; to stop or slow down freezer-burn; caused by ice crystals in the meat; which is made worse when you take un-frozen meat and put it into a below zero long-term chest freezer; the meat freezes too fast.

It's better to put it first in a frost-free freezer for a few days; so it can slowly cool down; then put it in your chest freezer.

The same for meat taken out of a deep storage -10f to -20F; it should be gradually unthawed; first in the frost-free freezer; then in the refrigerator section; a day or two in each one.