Another thing I don't understand about the creationist position...

[BNR32FAN]

The primary objection to evolution from creationists seems to be centered on human evolution specifically. For some reason the fact of sharing hereditary ancestry with other species causes creationists no end of grief.

However, if we didn't share ancestry with other species, why are we made of all the same 'stuff' as other animals? Especially in regards to our closest relatives (other primates), we share the same body plan, organs, cell structure, majority of our genetic makeup and so on.

If it was really important that we be distinct from other animal species, why didn't God make us wholly unique? Why not give us a completely unique physical makeup and genetic structure?

Evolution at least can explain this via genetic inheritance. Independent creation... not so much.

And before you say, "God just reused common parts":

a) Why would God reuse common parts in a manner that is perfectly consistent with genetic inheritance and biological evolution?

b) Why would it matter if we consider ourselves physically "related" to animals if we're all made from the same stuff to begin with?

I think your misunderstanding the main reason creationalists reject the theory of evolution. It has nothing to do with sharing hereditary ancestry it’s usually based on what the scriptures tell us about how God created man. The scriptures say nothing about man evolving from anything other than dust. Furthermore the scriptures say that God created man in one single day, not over a period of millions of years.

 

[BNR32FAN]

God made a basic design for the 'innards' and uses it in a variety of creatures, just as car makers do. How different can creatures be living in the same ecosphere?

One could say the same about combustible engines, many of them have very similar internal mechanisms but that doesn’t imply that they derived from one another. Their similarities simply show the basic design and components that effectively perform the task they’re designed to perform for each given application.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Yes, it is.

But it only works on paper.



The decimal point has never been moved as needed then?

No, it hasn't. Decimal points aren't moved in measurements to fit some narrative.

I'm wrong, am I?

Frequently.

 

[AV1611VET]

Decimal points aren't moved in measurements to fit some narrative.

Ya -- and I'm Genghis Khan.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Ya -- and I'm Genghis Khan.

I really don't know about your lineage, but I do know about the measurements. I guess that makes you Kaaahhhnn then.

 

[GenemZ]

That is fine. A human spirit does not have to be understanding. We have many difficult people around. But they all have spirit.

By the way, I don't understand your first sentence. Do you mean study or meditation by "regeneration"?

The word "spirit" can be used in various ways. But, in regards to regeneration the spirit involved is the result of the Holy Spirit imparting to your soul a human spirit to make your soul able to grasp spiritual realities and truths. Its the man without a human spirit who becomes like a deer caught in the headlights when confronted with Biblical teachings that require the Holy Spirit teaches your human spirit so that your soul can grasp the meaning. It may take teaching several other doctrines before it can be understood comfortably.

But the person without the spirit /natural man does not receive what comes from God’s Spirit,
because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually."

1 Cor 2:14​

The words 'natural man' meaning 'without the spirit' can be rendered that way because the actual Greek word is psychikos. Meaning = soulish" -not spiritual.

5591 psyxikós (an adjective, derived from 5590 /psyxḗ, "soul, natural identity") – properly, soulish, i.e. what is natural, as it relates to physical (tangible) life alone (i.e. apart from God's inworking of faith).

5591 /psyxikós ("natural") typically describes the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven." 5591 (psyxikós) then sometimes stands in contrast to 4152 /pneumatikós ("spiritual") – the higher, spiritual aspect of humanity that develops through faith (4102 /pístis).


Strong's Greek: 5591. ψυχικός (psuchikos) -- natural, of the soul or mind

 

[Aussie Pete]

If you want to design a good body for an alien, how would you make it? Human form (internal/external) would be the best one you can imagine.

The creational difference between human and "animals" is on the intelligence of human. Creationists called it the "spirit". So, a human has body, soul, and spirit. But animals only have body and soul. The body, the soul, and functions are not that much different. It is the spirit which can not be evolved and has to be created. That is why human can conquer the earth but no other animals could.

You are incorrect on a number of points. Man is primarily a spirit being, that has a soul and inhabits a body.

It is hardly surprising if the physical body has common aspects with animals. We inhabit the same earth. God's food supplies are much the same for animals as humans. It makes perfect sense for our physiology to share common features.

Spirit and soul are entirely different. The spirit of man is the part of him where God dwells. It includes conscience, the ability to fellowship with God and intuition, which is the ability to know without logic or reason. The spirit is the part of man that died when Adam chose to disobey God and became complicit with Satan.

The soul of man includes mind, emotion and the ability to choose - volition. Animals do not have the ability to choose in the sense of being morally responsible for their actions. They operate on instinct. Animals and birds can be remarkably intelligent. But no one is going to take a dolphin to court for killing another dolphin. God's judgement will apply only to the human race, not to the animals.

The part of us that died to God is the spirit and that is the part that is born again. Lord Jesus dwells in the born again spirit. That is where He leads us, convicts us, teaches us and fellowships with us.

There is no salvation for animals in this life. God will restore the animal kingdom to what it was before the fall. I'm convinced that I will see my pets in heaven, but I have no Biblical justification for saying so.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Your failure to study and think is your issue,
and that of others faced with the simple reality
that it's impossible to be an informed creationist
and have intellectual integrity.
Cannot do both.


If facts don't fit (your notion of) "spiritual" then
the problem is in your notions, not data.

The notion that people are at max intelligence and
could never evolve to be smarter is something
you simply made up and stated as fact.

See "intellectual integrity".

If anything, mankind is going backwards. Delusion abounds, as obvious from the transgender mob. Worse, governments pander to such lunacy. Supposedly intelligent people are convinced that the earth is flat. Kids can't make change without a computer. Spelling and grammar are obviously too hard for this generation. Study and think? Who does that any more? Who is taught how to reason and principles of logic? Maybe in Hong Kong, but the Western world, especially the English speaking world, is going backwards.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Do Animals Have Spiritual Experiences? Yes, They Do.​

We're not the only spiritual beings. ​

We can also ask if animals experience the joy of simply being alive? And if so, how would they express it so that we would know they do? Wild animals spend upwards of 90 percent of their time resting: What are they thinking and feeling as they gaze about? It would be nice to know. Again, science may never be able to measure such emotions with any precision, but anecdotal evidence and careful observation indicate such feelings may exist.​

Do you what spiritual is? I do. It's not emotion. Animals have life, but is not the same as human life. Animals are not morally accountable for their behaviour.

 

[Frank Robert]

OK, tell that to ANY animal in any way it can understand and see what happen.
That is why animal does not have spirit.

Ability to talk is not a condition of spirituality same as believing in a 6000 year world is not a condition of spirituality.

 

[Frank Robert]

Do you what spiritual is? I do. It's not emotion. Animals have life, but is not the same as human life. Animals are not morally accountable for their behaviour.

There are a number of behaviors that have been observed in animals that some scientists believe may be evidence of spiritual experiences. Such as:

Compassion and empathy - 5 Animals With a Moral Compass​

Play and creativity​

Ritualistic behavior​

Five Animals That Grieve​

Some animals seem to have a strong sense of place, and may return to the same spots year after year which suggests that they may have a spiritual connection to their environment.​

Do Animals Have Spiritual Experiences? Yes, They Do. - We're not the only spiritual beings.

These are just a few examples of behaviors that have been observed in animals that some scientists believe may be evidence of spiritual experiences.​

​

Obviously, not all animals exhibit these behaviors, and that there is no way to definitively prove that they are motivated by spirituality. However, the fact that these behaviors have been observed in a variety of different species suggests that they may be something more than just coincidence. The question of whether or not animals are capable of spirituality is a matter of personal belief same as creationism is a matter of personal belief.​

 

[Frank Robert]

OK, tell that to ANY animal in any way it can understand and see what happen.
That is why animal does not have spirit.

You are assuming, without evidence, that if an animal has a soul it must be cognizant that it does.

Would you claim that all people are cognizant or believe that they have a soul?

 

[dlamberth]

OK, tell that to ANY animal in any way it can understand and see what happen.
That is why animal does not have spirit.

Spirit and intelligence are not the same.
A dog has the spirit of a dog. A horse, horse spirit. A cat, cat spirit. A salmon, salmon spirit.

 

[juvenissun]

The word "spirit" can be used in various ways. But, in regards to regeneration the spirit involved is the result of the Holy Spirit imparting to your soul a human spirit to make your soul able to grasp spiritual realities and truths. Its the man without a human spirit who becomes like a deer caught in the headlights when confronted with Biblical teachings that require the Holy Spirit teaches your human spirit so that your soul can grasp the meaning. It may take teaching several other doctrines before it can be understood comfortably.

But the person without the spirit /natural man does not receive what comes from God’s Spirit,
because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually."

1 Cor 2:14​

The words 'natural man' meaning 'without the spirit' can be rendered that way because the actual Greek word is psychikos. Meaning = soulish" -not spiritual.

5591 psyxikós (an adjective, derived from 5590 /psyxḗ, "soul, natural identity") – properly, soulish, i.e. what is natural, as it relates to physical (tangible) life alone (i.e. apart from God's inworking of faith).

5591 /psyxikós ("natural") typically describes the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven." 5591 (psyxikós) then sometimes stands in contrast to 4152 /pneumatikós ("spiritual") – the higher, spiritual aspect of humanity that develops through faith (4102 /pístis).


Strong's Greek: 5591. ψυχικός (psuchikos) -- natural, of the soul or mind

Agree.
However, you are talking about something beyond the comprehension of atheists. They don‘t even recognize that human has human spirit. Needless to say anything about the Holy Spirit.

 

[juvenissun]

You are incorrect on a number of points. Man is primarily a spirit being, that has a soul and inhabits a body.

It is hardly surprising if the physical body has common aspects with animals. We inhabit the same earth. God's food supplies are much the same for animals as humans. It makes perfect sense for our physiology to share common features.

Spirit and soul are entirely different. The spirit of man is the part of him where God dwells. It includes conscience, the ability to fellowship with God and intuition, which is the ability to know without logic or reason. The spirit is the part of man that died when Adam chose to disobey God and became complicit with Satan.

The soul of man includes mind, emotion and the ability to choose - volition. Animals do not have the ability to choose in the sense of being morally responsible for their actions. They operate on instinct. Animals and birds can be remarkably intelligent. But no one is going to take a dolphin to court for killing another dolphin. God's judgement will apply only to the human race, not to the animals.

The part of us that died to God is the spirit and that is the part that is born again. Lord Jesus dwells in the born again spirit. That is where He leads us, convicts us, teaches us and fellowships with us.

There is no salvation for animals in this life. God will restore the animal kingdom to what it was before the fall. I'm convinced that I will see my pets in heaven, but I have no Biblical justification for saying so.

Thanks for the comments. I agreed with you.

 

[juvenissun]

Ability to talk is not a condition of spirituality same as believing in a 6000 year world is not a condition of spirituality.

Animals (with soul) have any idea about the age of the earth?
What you said denied what you insisted.

 

[Bradskii]

Do you what spiritual is? I do. It's not emotion. Animals have life, but is not the same as human life. Animals are not morally accountable for their behaviour.

What was that about grammar?

 

[juvenissun]

You are assuming, without evidence, that if an animal has a soul it must be cognizant that it does.

Would you claim that all people are cognizant or believe that they have a soul?

Of course animals do not know they have soul. It only take one who has spirit to know what is soul. There is high contrast between the two.

Yes, any human can sense that there is something else in the body beyond the body itself. This is a very simple recognition. However, all animals do not have that simple understanding. For example, animals feel happy, but they can never know what is happiness.

 

[Astrid]

If anything, mankind is going backwards. Delusion abounds, as obvious from the transgender mob. Worse, governments pander to such lunacy. Supposedly intelligent people are convinced that the earth is flat. Kids can't make change without a computer. Spelling and grammar are obviously too hard for this generation. Study and think? Who does that any more? Who is taught how to reason and principles of logic? Maybe in Hong Kong, but the Western world, especially the English speaking world, is going backwards.

Not much related to what I said
except that you do exemplify
both my observation about creationists, and yours about reason and logic.

 

[Astrid]

Of course animals do not know they have soul. It only take one who has spirit to know what is soul. There is high contrast between the two.

Yes, any human can sense that there is something else in the body beyond the body itself. This is a very simple recognition. However, all animals do not have that simple understanding. For example, animals feel happy, but they can never know what is happiness.

You keep making things up and stating them as fact.