Another thing I don't understand about the creationist position...

[juvenissun]

You think no other animal can deny themselves what they want?

If the do, the reason should be very simple, such as something is wrong with the animal, or it knows something better is coming. These are all reactions from soul.

 

[Frank Robert]

Animals have "soul". That is what you are talking about.

There is no way to know if animals have souls or not. S

You should tell soul from spirit.
Do you see the significant difference? If you don't, you can't tell human from animal.

I think a case for spirituality can be made without the necessity of believing in a soul. For example I find the TAO Chapter 19 spitually inspiring. It basically advises:

Ease up and don’t worry, embrace simplicity, be selfless and curb desires.

Of course, these are my own ideas, obviously, others would have their own ideas.

 

[GenemZ]

Action reflects mood. This is shared by all lives that have sense (soul)
Action disguses mood. (another common example: you want something, but you say no) Animals can not do that. Only human can. Why? Becaue human has something more, which we call it “spirit”. Notice that human spirit does not always mean good, or Godly. It could also be evil.

First learn what regeneration causes and produces in a man.

Until you do? You are merely being philosophical when throwing around the word "spirit' not knowing what the foundation for being born again means..

 

[GenemZ]

There is no way to know if animals have souls or not.

Animals have souls. Only the human soul was created in the Image of God. Soul is the animating power to give a body expression..

In Genesis 1:26-27 God created [out from nothing] man in his image.
The Hebrew word 'bara' that reveals God can create something out from nothing. And, bara is only ever used of God in that context.

The body for man's soul was not created in Genesis One.

That lifeless body was 'molded and formed' [jatsar] out from the elements of the earth in Genesis 2:7.
What was breathed into that body's nostrils? Was the soul created in Genesis 1:27.

What many fail to see when reading Genesis 2 is that animals also had their bodies produced just like Adam's body.
There bodies were also molded and formed from the elements of the earth!

Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, ​

and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called ​

each living creature, that was its name. Gen 2:19​

What happens in Genesis 1:27? God created [bara] out from nothing animal souls. Created before the bodies were given them in Genesis 2!

Its tricky at first because the English translations leave us with much ambiguity that the Hebrew does not.

In Genesis One God creates "out from nothing." God then ceases and rests from all creating out from nothing as He begins a new trend in chapter Two.

God is no more creating out from nothing in Genesis Two! No more "bara" taking place!

​

"Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested ​

from all the work of creating [bara] that he had done." Gen 2:3​

In Genesis Two, God takes what had already been created out from nothing in Genesis One, and makes from the substance of what had been created, into bodies

Like I said... Its tricky at first because the English translations leave us with much ambiguity that the Hebrew does not.

Genesis One and Two are simply two phases of the same creation coming into being.

grace and peace ..................

 

[AV1611VET]

The primary objection to evolution from creationists seems to be centered on human evolution specifically. For some reason the fact of sharing hereditary ancestry with other species causes creationists no end of grief.

1. Why should we accept science's version of deep time, when the Bible clearly has the universe up and running in six days?

2. Why should we accept science's version of life being concatenated, when the Bible clearly has us separate from one another?

3. Why should we accept science's version of the order in which life appeared on the earth, when the Bible clearly has a different order? (Example: whales before land animals.)

You can claim we're wrong, that's your prerogative.

But why start a thread and say "for some reason," as if we Bible believers are keeping some kind of secret from you?

 

[juvenissun]

There is no way to know if animals have souls or not. S

I think a case for spirituality can be made without the necessity of believing in a soul. For example I find the TAO Chapter 19 spitually inspiring. It basically advises:

Ease up and don’t worry, embrace simplicity, be selfless and curb desires.

Of course, these are my own ideas, obviously, others would have their own ideas.

OK, tell that to ANY animal in any way it can understand and see what happen.
That is why animal does not have spirit.

 

[juvenissun]

First learn what regeneration causes and produces in a man.

Until you do? You are merely being philosophical when throwing around the word "spirit' not knowing what the foundation for being born again means..

That is fine. A human spirit does not have to be understanding. We have many difficult people around. But they all have spirit.

By the way, I don't understand your first sentence. Do you mean study or meditation by "regeneration"?

 

[Hans Blaster]

1. Why should we accept science's version of deep time, when the Bible clearly has the universe up and running in six days?

Evidence.

2. Why should we accept science's version of life being concatenated, when the Bible clearly has us separate from one another?

Not sure what you mean. Your word choice is confusing.

3. Why should we accept science's version of the order in which life appeared on the earth, when the Bible clearly has a different order? (Example: whales before land animals.)

Evidence.

You can claim we're wrong, that's your prerogative.

But why start a thread and say "for some reason," as if we Bible believers are keeping some kind of secret from you?

The evidence shows otherwise.

 

[AV1611VET]

Evidence.

Evidence in crisis.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Evidence in crisis.

What "crisis"?

 

[AV1611VET]

What "crisis"?

1. Constant change.
2. Recategorizing.
3. Pressures from above.
4. Competition.
5. Human error.
6. Greed.
7. Pride.
8. Refusal to consider safer alternatives.
9. Violate their own policies.
10. Cutting corners.

All those put evidence in a state of crisis.

 

[Hans Blaster]

1. Constant change.
2. Recategorizing.
3. Pressures from above.
4. Competition.
5. Human error.
6. Greed.
7. Pride.
8. Refusal to consider safer alternatives.
9. Violate their own policies.
10. Cutting corners.

All those put evidence in a state of crisis.

None of these constitute any "crisis" in the evidence, and to the extent I can identify what you are even talking about they don't have any relevance to the evidence either.

 

[Haria]

A painter uses the same palette of colors for all his paintings, but that doesn't mean all his paintings are the same or evolved from one another. Similarly, the fact that we share common elements with other animals doesn't mean we necessarily evolved from a common ancestor.

But, I understand your point about the incredible similarity we share with other primates, especially in terms of genetics.

 

[AV1611VET]

None of these constitute any "crisis" in the evidence, and to the extent I can identify what you are even talking about they don't have any relevance to the evidence either.

I see.

Would you like specific examples?

Here's one:

Thalidomide is safe.
Thalidomide isn't safe.
Thalidomide is a prenatal wonder drug.
Thalidomide causes birth defects.
Thalidomide needs further testing.
Thalidomide doesn't need further testing.
Yadda yadda yadda.

The Challenger is ready for liftoff.
The Challenger shouldn't lift off.
It's too cold.
It's not too cold.
Yadda yadda yadda.

Pluto is our ninth planet.
Pluto isn't our ninth planet.
Pluto is a planet.
Pluto is a dwarf planet.
Rig a vote, then get in cahoots with Webster and hope they play along and rewrite the dictionary to accommodate the illegal outcome of said vote.
Yadda yadda yadda.

Found a tooth.
It's from a missing link!
Give that missing link a scientific name and get it in the papers.
Get pictures drawn of Nebraska people gathered around a campfire, enjoying the outdoors.
Wait -- it's the tooth of a peccary.
Reclassify it, and print a small retraction on page sixteen.
Yadda yadda yadda.

Who invented the telephone?
Bell: I did.
Reis: I did.
Meucci: I did.
Dolbear: I did.
Yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I see.

Would you like specific examples?

Here's one:

Thalidomide is safe.
Thalidomide isn't safe.
Thalidomide is a prenatal wonder drug.
Thalidomide causes birth defects.
Thalidomide needs further testing.
Thalidomide doesn't need further testing.
Yadda yadda yadda.

The Challenger is ready for liftoff.
The Challenger shouldn't lift off.
It's too cold.
It's not too cold.
Yadda yadda yadda.

Pluto is our ninth planet.
Pluto isn't our ninth planet.
Pluto is a planet.
Pluto is a dwarf planet.
Rig a vote, then get in cahoots with Webster and hope they play along and rewrite the dictionary to accommodate the illegal outcome of said vote.
Yadda yadda yadda.

Found a tooth.
It's from a missing link!
Give that missing link a scientific name and get it in the papers.
Get pictures drawn of Nebraska people gathered around a campfire, enjoying the outdoors.
Wait -- it's the tooth of a peccary.
Reclassify it, and print a small retraction on page sixteen.
Yadda yadda yadda.

Who invented the telephone?
Bell: I did.
Reis: I did.
Meucci: I did.
Dolbear: I did.
Yadda yadda yadda.

NOne of these things have anything to do with the evidence for "deep time". Not a single one. (And you know it.) Quit playing games.

 

[AV1611VET]

NOne of these things have anything to do with the evidence for "deep time". Not a single one. (And you know it.) Quit playing games.

Oh.

It's DEEP TIME you're on about.

Should have said so in the first place.

Deep Time can't be determined by direct observation, as the observer will die of old age before that.

So DT has to be determined by other methods.

And as I'm fond of saying:

When it comes to deep time, just move the decimal place as needed.

 

[Astrid]

If the do, the reason should be very simple, such as something is wrong with the animal, or it knows something better is coming. These are all reactions from soul.

You do know that you just made that up?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Oh.

It's DEEP TIME you're on about.

Should have said so in the first place.

Deep Time can't be determined by direct observation, as the observer will die of old age before that.

So DT has to be determined by other methods.

And nothing you posted references those methods or any problems with them.

And as I'm fond of saying:

When it comes to deep time, just move the decimal place as needed.

That's not how it works. Your fondness for something doesn't make it true.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's not how it works.

Yes, it is.

But it only works on paper.

Your fondness for something doesn't make it true.

The decimal point has never been moved as needed then?

I'm wrong, am I?

 

[Astrid]

A painter uses the same palette of colors for all his paintings, but that doesn't mean all his paintings are the same or evolved from one another. Similarly, the fact that we share common elements with other animals doesn't mean we necessarily evolved from a common ancestor.

But, I understand your point about the incredible similarity we share with other primates, especially in terms of genetics.

" Elements"? Like carbon
nitrogen, oxygen?


Whatever you may mean the
the facts of evolution and associated theories are far deeper and more robust than some facile " just because" sort of analogy.