Another question for atheists

[Tnmusicman]

Yes, you can use it as an example. It's a hypothetical situation.

I've no idea why this seems to confuse so many people.

to further clarify--ive heard a number of times "ive never seen this happen" and since its never been seen by said person its discredited as being utter nonsesne because I cant show where its actually happened!
The atheist can give a hypothetical and I should give that example credence because its only a hypothetical. Few are willing to put themselves in my position so Im not to keen on putting myself in theirs (right now).

 

[Wiccan_Child]

to further clarify--ive heard a number of times "ive never seen this happen" and since its never been seen by said person its discredited as being utter nonsesne because I cant show where its actually happened!

To be fair, we (or, at least, I) don't doubt that it happened, we just doubt that it's common.

 

[Tnmusicman]

That's called 'scienceism', and you're right, it is a faith statement (albeit a weak one, given the plethora of questions science has answered). But in all my years here, I've seen maybe two atheists say something like that.

That's why most of us say, "I don't know".

Oh,I wasent refering to posts exclusive to this site but also DDO and YouTube (yes,i know youtube is bad for both sides). It has been the "go to " answer in a number of "debates" ive had concerning the faith issue. I agree that science has MANY answers on MANY issues and believe it or not you can be a christian and love science. It seems that science nowdays is limited to atheists!! I LOVE science but due to my stupid learning disability I have a hard time processing the more complicated science topics but still love it nonetheless.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Oh,I wasent refering to posts exclusive to this site but also DDO and YouTube (yes,i know youtube is bad for both sides). It has been the "go to " answer in a number of "debates" ive had concerning the faith issue. I agree that science has MANY answers on MANY issues and believe it or not you can be a christian and love science. It seems that science nowdays is limited to atheists!!

I've seen more atheists than I'd like who go about as if science has summarily disproven all religions, but it has to be said that the anti-science sentiment is strong on the theistic side, too.

I LOVE science but due to my stupid learning disability I have a hard time processing the more complicated science topics but still love it nonetheless.

Well, if you have any questions about science or mathematics (or anything else), I have an ongoing thread where you can ask pretty much anything.

 

[quatona]

I didn't say it was out of the blue

At least you were silent about what happened before, and you made it appear like it was the starting point of the conversation. If, however, it was not the starting point, the preceedings may be of relevance.

but to say you've never heard an atheist ask a Christian "what happens after death" is to say that's your experiance and not everybody elses.

Of course it is my experience, and I have presented it as such. I can´t think of anyone in the Western world who doesn´t have at least a rough idea of the Christian concept of afterlife (i.e. judgement day, heaven, hell).

Now, you could easily show me how wrong I am by giving me a link to say 10 examples here at CF where an atheist approached a Christian with this question. Ok, I´ll make it easier for you: let´s say 5 examples. Ok, three. Actually, just one will do.

 

[variant]

I'm not sure how the universe got mixed into this.

That's because you didn't follow the line of conversation properly

I was responding to this question:

Because if an atheist says they don't know it's not a big deal but if a Christian doesn't know they are a joke. That's the double standard.

Don't know what exactly?

In that example, as with the entire thread you are critisizeing the Atheist for not knowing the cause of the beginning of the universe, and compareing that with various questions about Christian theology that a christian might not know.

You really haven't demonstrated this double standard.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

That's called 'scienceism', and you're right, it is a faith statement (albeit a weak one, given the plethora of questions science has answered). But in all my years here, I've seen maybe two atheists say something like that.

That's why most of us say, "I don't know".

I don't think it is scientism per se, but scientific realism.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Seems that if you accept that "just believing cause it's in a book" is a valid basis for belief then you have to accept A's conclusion that Christianity is a joke.

Alot of our beliefs come from the Bible but its not just "a book" to us. Its not like we're reading an encyclopedia. We believe it to be the inspired word of God. Our beliefs are justified by more than just being in the Bible. I believe Jesus is who He said He was and therefore have good reason to believe in the things He taught.
Do some atheists not hold a faith based position on certain matters? Ive heard on many occasions how science its the best tool for this and that and one day science will answer these questions,so in a way you put faith in science and believe very much in its ability to come up with answers as well as holding other answers on many other claims (untill THAT claim is proved wrong then the belief will change ). Matters not because anyone who says "I believe one day science will have the answer on _____" has faith.

Depends on how you define "faith". A person may have very good philosophical reasons for believing that science will, one day, be able to answer this or that question about the world. Alternatively, he might believe that the answer to the question is not only beyond science, it is beyond the human mind and therefore unintelligible to us (or at least, unintelligible in our current state of being). Working out whether some question can be answered by science is a debate for the philosophy of science.

 

[Tnmusicman]

I've seen more atheists than I'd like who go about as if science has summarily disproven all religions, but it has to be said that the anti-science sentiment is strong on the theistic side, too.

Yes,you are right. Point taken.

Well, if you have any questions about science or mathematics (or anything else), I have an ongoing thread where you can ask pretty much anything.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Tnmusicman]

At least you were silent about what happened before, and you made it appear like it was the starting point of the conversation. If, however, it was not the starting point, the preceedings may be of relevance.

Of course it is my experience, and I have presented it as such. I can´t think of anyone in the Western world who doesn´t have at least a rough idea of the Christian concept of afterlife (i.e. judgement day, heaven, hell).

Now, you could easily show me how wrong I am by giving me a link to say 10 examples here at CF where an atheist approached a Christian with this question. Ok, I´ll make it easier for you: let´s say 5 examples. Ok, three. Actually, just one will do.

I'm not interested in showing you to be wrong and the example was a hypothetical. I reiterate the original question was spawned because a guy on YouTube made a comment in the comments section ( not in the video ) that Christians didn't know anything and were a joke. Noone had provicated the response as far as I could tell. That's what I was trying to say at the beginning but then I was asked for an example so I gave an example ( enter you ) so, no I don't know of anyone on here that has asked verbatim my example.
As far as proving you wrong; not all Christians are interested In proving atheists wrong. Our job is to share the love of Jesus. Not to try and convince you of anything.

 

[Tnmusicman]

That's because you didn't follow the line of conversation properly

I was responding to this question:



In that example, as with the entire thread you are critisizeing the Atheist for not knowing the cause of the beginning of the universe, and compareing that with various questions about Christian theology that a christian might not know.

You really haven't demonstrated this double standard.

For the last time, I have not said anything about the universe nor have I criticized any atheist for not knowing anything. I KNOW atheists don't claim to know how the universe got here. I haven't uttered a single nasty comment about that.

 

[Skaloop]

Why do I sometimes see ( it's real common on YouTube ) a Christian and an atheist in a back and forth and the atheist will be asking a question that the Christian can't answer. When Christians ask atheists about orgins of the universe and what not most will respond with something like the following:
"I don't know and neither do you"
Christians are expected to accept an "I don't know" answer from the presumably smarter and more logical atheist.
This is fine but then why can't the Christian say "I don't know"?
I was reading the comments on a reason ralley post and the bulk of the comments were ridiculing Christians for not knowing the answer to a question that AronRa was asking. Why are Christians held to a different standard than atheists on questions that don't really have definative answers? Why the ridicule of Christians ( who don't posit themselves as being logically superior ) and yet the atheist is free to say "I dunno" to any question and nobody is calling them a "joke" for not knowing all the answers. Contrary to popular belief most Christians don't claim to know ALL the answers even though our chosen spiritual beliefs may lay claim to knowledge of things. It must be remembered that just because our spiritual books may claim to have answers it certainly can't account for EVERY question asked nor can the followers be expected to know everything asked of them,especially when the questions don't have black and white answers.Any thoughts on why this happens??

I don't know.

 

[quatona]

I'm not interested in showing you to be wrong and the example was a hypothetical.

Well, if you are not willing to support your claims/premises I don´t see a basis for discussing your conclusions with you.

As far as proving you wrong; not all Christians are interested In proving atheists wrong.

I didn´t expect you to prove atheism wrong. I expected you to support your claim that atheists frequently approach Christians with the question "what will happen after death" - thereby correcting my (as you clearly stated: mistaken) impression that this happens rarely if ever.

Our job is to share the love of Jesus. Not to try and convince you of anything.

Ok, so until you start making at least minimal efforts to support your conclusions about atheists´ typical behaviour as outlined in your OP I will remain unconvinced about their validity.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Our job is to share the love of Jesus. Not to try and convince you of anything.

Thank you for the love. I will continue on my merry atheist way.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Tnmusicman]

Well, if you are not willing to support your claims/premises I don´t see a basis for discussing your conclusions with you.


I didn´t expect you to prove atheism wrong. I expected you to support your claim that atheists frequently approach Christians with the question "what will happen after death" - thereby correcting my (as you clearly stated: mistaken) impression that this happens rarely if ever.Y

Ok, so until you start making at least minimal efforts to support your conclusions about atheists´ typical behaviour as outlined in your OP I will remain unconvinced about their validity.

I WASENT CLAIMING ATHEISTS FREQUENTLY APPROACH CHRISTIANS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER DEATH!!! It was an example to illustrate ...... what's the use??

 

[quatona]

I WASENT CLAIMING ATHEISTS FREQUENTLY APPROACH CHRISTIANS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER DEATH!!! It was an example to illustrate ...... what's the use??

An example to illustrate what?
Why don´t you pick real examples for what you are claiming to be reality in your OP?

 

[Gadarene]

ah,so mine has to be an example that actually happened for anyone to "get it" but the atheist can give a hypothetical?

No, you can still use it as an example, which had nothing to do with the reasons you listed in the post I was responding to.

Incidentally, while I don't think it was actually a relevant objection you objected on the basis of what atheists actually do say. Which is exactly why people are objecting to your OP. You introduced something and aren't backing it up with what atheists actually say.

And for that matter, KC wasn't trying to give an actual example, he was trying to extract a general rule of behaviour from the hypothetical and wasn't attributing it to anyone. You, by contrast, are claiming that this is something that atheists actually do. You need to back that up - if you can't, retract the claim.

 

[KCfromNC]

cant use this as an example because atheists always point out they have "no beliefs just lack of beliefs"

about gods. They're free to believe whatever they want about anything else.

unless of course you are stating you are NOT an atheist and are involved in some religion that specifically thinks christians are a joke.

You're confusing me with one of the characters I created. I know that the fact you created a hypothetical with an atheist in it has nothing to do with you lacking belief in god. Apply the same reasoning to what I wrote.

 

[KCfromNC]

Seems that if you accept that "just believing cause it's in a book" is a valid basis for belief then you have to accept A's conclusion that Christianity is a joke.

Alot of our beliefs come from the Bible but its not just "a book" to us.

And obviously someone who would believe something just because it's in another book feels that book is not just another book to them. Are you agreeing that their belief is justified?

It's also a bit misleading to say that you believe for more reasons than the Bible, and then use an example of what is written about Jesus in the Bible as an example of these other reasons. But I'll let that slide since it doesn't have much to do with my hypothetical response to your hypothetical discussion.

Do some atheists not hold a faith based position on certain matters?

Quite possibly.

Ive heard on many occasions how science its the best tool for this and that and one day science will answer these questions,so in a way you put faith in science

That's not faith. If science never answered a question and yet people believed it would in the future, that would be an example of faith. Seeing the fact that science produces all sorts of answers to previously unanswered questions and thinking that trend will continue is something else entirely.

But anyway, this is all a distraction from my question. Is faith based on reading something in a book reasonable or not? You seemed to think it was a great answer for a Christian to give to justify their beliefs, and yet here you seem to be implying that faith is bad when non-believers use it (even if your specific example wasn't actually an instance of faith). Like I said, there's a double-standard at work here.

 

[Tnmusicman]

An example to illustrate what?
Why don´t you pick real examples for what you are claiming to be reality in your OP?

I did pick a real example but I cant remember the video it came from so just forget the whole thing--point taken--will come back with it if i find it--thats all--