Another question for atheists

[Tnmusicman]

I can't actually resond to your first post because I can't seem to verify what you are talking about.

In your question you certianly don't prove a double standard was ever used as you don't even give the example, so your question is unanswerable. With specifics we could talk about context and wether the standards used in those contexts were aplicable or fair. What I can't do is broaden that context to every atheist everywhere being answerable for the standards one atheist uses in one context that I don't know about.

And, as I said, (and as the only answer I can give) the main difference between atheism and theism is how claims are supported. So, it might or might not be a cop out for the theist to say "I don't know" in this case. OR, If I know the person you are commoneting on, he might just be demonstrateing how little real world explaination power a particular christian "alternative" to science actually has.

Ok,ok ----atheist says "what happens after death?"
Christian says "our beliefs state we go to heaven or to hell"
atheist says"how do u know?"
Christian says "I don't know,but I believe the bible. Obviously,I can't tell u for sure what happens as I'm not dead yet"
atheist says"well, u don't know your own religion then.Christians are a joke".

 

[Tnmusicman]

I sort of laugh at the arguments on youtube to be honest... i've studied a whole lot so when i see them speak on both sides its like >_> neither of them know their material lol

well,that is true a good bit of the time.

 

[variant]

Ok,ok ----atheist says "what happens after death?"
Christian says "our beliefs state we go to heaven or to hell"
atheist says"how do u know?"
Christian says "I don't know,but I believe the bible. Obviously,I can't tell u for sure what happens as I'm not dead yet"
atheist says"well, u don't know your own religion then.Christians are a joke".

Yeah, believers make a lot of unsubstantiated claims. Even admittedly. That was my original point. The main question is how you back up what you claim.

Why do you believe the Bible? < example of a follow up question that is entirely fair (and I am pretty sure the line of questioning will get you somewhere vacuous).

Is this similar to an Atheist not knowing the cause of the beginning of the universe?

Where is the double standard?

 

[Tnmusicman]

So in order to tell if what you claim is true or not (or if you are misunderstanding it), you expect us to search through various videos until we can find an issue that might not even exist?

Seriously, if you want to ask why atheists do X, take the time and actually find us an example. Otherwise admit that you cannot produce anything to substantiate the claim that any such double standard exists.

no, I didn't expect you to do anything. You can if you wish. Btw, the double standard does exist and I'm sure you know it but as anyone else on the side being attacked you do not wish to see it.

 

[Tnmusicman]

Yeah, believers make a lot of unsubstantiated claims. Even admittedly. That was my original point. The main question is how you back up what you claim.

Why do you believe the Bible? < example of a follow up question that is entirely fair (and I am pretty sure the line of questioning will get you somewhere vacuous).

Is this similar to an Atheist not knowing the cause of the beginning of the universe?

Where is the double standard?

Because if an atheist says they don't know it's not a big deal but if a Christian doesn't know they are a joke. That's the double standard.

 

[Non sequitur]

no, I didn't expect you to do anything. You can if you wish. Btw, the double standard does exist and I'm sure you know it but as anyone else on the side being attacked you do not wish to see it.

Someone has already responded to this.

Christians make a lot of unsubstantiated claims.They make knowledge statements.

Atheism does not hold any knowledge statements.

It can't be a double standard, because the same thing does not apply to both parties.

 

[Skavau]

I mean, from the beginning in the OP, the situation described is one of a Christian and an Atheist saying, "I don't know." The first few responses, mine included, were cautious because no one wants to generalize that all atheists act this way. We ask for details.

The situation described was referring to AronRa asking a question of Christians on a youtube video which led atheists to mock Christians for not knowing the answer. That is how vague it was.

Then, two pages of atheists patting themselves on the back because Christians, supposedly, are always asserting things and thus they need to be put in their place.

Well, I don't like to blow my own horn here but many Christians have and do assert things as factual that they simply cannot know.

It comes in no small part I think from the fact that, even in countries like Sweden or Norway where religion has been suppressed to nigh extinction, people do not tend to become atheists. They simply stop going to church or engaging in organized religion, but they continue to have spiritual beliefs.

What are you talking about? How is Sweden or Norway suppressing religion?

Atheists are aware of this, and so they are in a constant war to promote themselves.

The first few responses, mine included, were cautious because no one wants to generalize that all atheists act this way. We ask for details.

Pay due attention to your own standards.

Unfortunately, atheism in and of itself is a nearly meaningless, very limited belief.

Atheism is not even a belief. You get the definition wrong immediately.

It cannot be "promoted", and it does not come naturally to people whose daily existence on this earth is a spiritual one full of emotions, thoughts, acts of the will, and a thousand other things that cannot be inspected tangibly, yet clearly do exist.

Here is a prime example. You are claiming that a "thousand other things that cannot be inspected tangibly" clearly exist. You simply cannot know this. This is an example of someone claiming knowledge on something that they cannot know.

 

[Going Merry]

I believe in the bible because it holds an account of the past and of the future. I used archaeology to prove God to be real for me, at least evidence for me to take it seriously. Next I also believe in the bible because of things like the laws in the bible being so far ahead of their time it is shocking. Like the cleansing laws are insane, considering we didn't even know germs existed till the 1800s. Next prophecy coming true such as Israel coming back is also amazing. These are the things that helped me come to Christianity.

Evolution and all that are things I don't personally believe but many people believe them to be fact or at least say they are basically a fact. But as science improves, just like us discovering germs and the continual growth of knowledge and science will further prove my faith in the bible as true.

Now for someone to say to me "you can't know if God is real" is something that I don't have a problem with. I know God is real, and you can't find doubt in me. I hope people who claim such things also have no doubt like I do. I read many websites of supposed contradictions and they are from unlearned people who have no idea what they are talking about. Anyone who has studied the bible in a little bit won't bat an eye at many of these anti-christian websites out there.

Most arguments on youtube that I have seen though are nothing like this, they are ridiculous and should just be ignored by any thinking person

 

[Skavau]

Ok,ok ----atheist says "what happens after death?"
Christian says "our beliefs state we go to heaven or to hell"
atheist says"how do u know?"
Christian says "I don't know,but I believe the bible. Obviously,I can't tell u for sure what happens as I'm not dead yet"
atheist says"well, u don't know your own religion then.Christians are a joke".

This is almost true, but not quite.

The atheist would be more inclined to ask you how you know that you are going to heaven or hell, or how you know that what the Bible says is actually reflective of reality. If you can't provide an answer to that then you are believing a claim for no reason.

 

[Tnmusicman]

Ok I'll pick one.
I've seen atheist ask why do you believe in God, your answer is I'm guessing "I Don't Know" so yea that answer is mockable

As an atheist what determins what is and isn't mockable??

 

[Skavau]

Now for someone to say to me "you can't know if God is real" is something that I don't have a problem with. I know God is real, and you can't find doubt in me.

You're welcome to suspend your doubt in such, but you should note that you are claiming not just belief but actual knowledge of the proposition that God exists. That to many people will appear to be arrogant. You can't get much more than claiming to know the ultimate origins of existence.

 

[Skavau]

As an atheist what determins what is and isn't mockable??

Something amusing that materialises from an absurd propostion, or derives from a mistake or stupidity.

Though that's just my quick off the top of my head and has nothing to do with my nontheism.

 

[variant]

Because if an atheist says they don't know it's not a big deal but if a Christian doesn't know they are a joke. That's the double standard.

No, it's not.

The atheist you spoke of dosen't know how the universe began, which, is not an essential claim of atheism.

The theist believes things and dosen't know why or how to support them.

Essentially your asking for the atheist to explain the entire universe, where as, the atheist is asking you to give them a good reason for all the claims you make.

 

[Going Merry]

You're welcome to suspend your doubt in such, but you should note that you are claiming not just belief but actual knowledge of the proposition that God exists. That to many people will appear to be arrogant. You can't get much more than claiming to know the ultimate origins of existence.

Arrogant or not is perfectly fine with me. Since I have no ill will towards anyone, if they get mad because I am confident, like many Christians do when I debate in theology, then it's on them. I can only say some things, you don't have to believe me, it's all on you. Though in my faith Jesus took up all your sin too, so He's already atoned for you as well. But everyone has to claim this gift of salvation through faith.

Anywho yes I do claim to know the ultimate origins of existence. Scripture which has been proven true is my evidence. I don't just say things with baseless assumptions, I also have to have things proven to me. People have to search for them selves though. No Christian will ever convince you or any unbeliever otherwise.

 

[ebia]

Because if an atheist says they don't know it's not a big deal but if a Christian doesn't know they are a joke. That's the double standard.

Don't know what exactly?

 

[Skavau]

Arrogant or not is perfectly fine with me. Since I have no ill will towards anyone, if they get mad because I am confident, like many Christians do when I debate in theology, then it's on them.

Someone calling you arrogant is not getting mad, it is them pointing out your lack of humility.

I can only say some things, you don't have to believe me, it's all on you. Though in my faith Jesus took up all your sin too, so He's already atoned for you as well. But everyone has to claim this gift of salvation through faith.

I don't want my 'sin' taken up by Jesus. Didn't ask for that.

Anywho yes I do claim to know the ultimate origins of existence. Scripture which has been proven true is my evidence. I don't just say things with baseless assumptions, I also have to have things proven to me. People have to search for them selves though. No Christian will ever convince you or any unbeliever otherwise.

Muslims have rather the same opinion, by the way.

 

[variant]

Don't know what exactly?

In this example he is talking about an atheist who dosen't know how the universe began.

 

[Skavau]

perhaps something I havent heard. It appears that noone seems to get what Im asking anyway. I wasent asking about the origins of the universe or evolution or an of that I was simply asking why (on a NUMBER of occasions ) is "I dont know" from the presumably idiot Christian not a good answer but from the logically superior atheist its okay to not know an answer.

Because the Christians probably referenced in your OP are having to say "I don't know" to things they claim to know. Atheists are outright upfront about saying "I don't know" about things they have always claimed ignorance on.

Seriously,why the double standard? It shouldnt matter that my chosen faith claims to know the answer for sure.

It does, because by extension you begin claiming to know. You simply can't know.

We believe God created the world. If atheists dont believe in God then why do you care?

Do you mean why do we care about the discussion of theism at all?

Why would it even come up? Ive spoken to many atheists that get into their theory on how the universe was created and it always ends up in the same place--with a "we dont know for sure" or "science will have the answer someday". I accept that as an answer but were I to say the same thing it would be met with a much different reaction ( more than likely ).
Just kinda curious about where the head is at in these times ( on the atheist side ).

Atheism is not dependent upon knowing the origins of the universe. Christianity is. That is the key difference. Atheism is not even a positive proposition.

 

[Going Merry]

Someone calling you arrogant is not getting mad, it is them pointing out your lack of humility.


I don't want my 'sin' taken up by Jesus. Didn't ask for that.


Muslims have rather the same opinion, by the way.

To the bold:

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Unfortunately for you, Christianity states he did take your sin, whether or not you like it. But rejecting it is rather worse unfortunately for some. Just stating the facts God bless you, I am dipping out of the convo now.

 

[Skavau]

To the bold:

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Unfortunately for you, Christianity states he did take your sin, whether or not you like it. But rejecting it is rather worse unfortunately for some. Just stating the facts God bless you, I am dipping out of the convo now.

Christianity can claim what it likes. I am not a slave or bound by any agreement it made on my behalf.