Another Noah's thread (no stoning please :))

[Aman777]

Just found a site with the highlights of the find.
It also says it was found at 6500 ft up, too high for a local flood.

Dear Ed, It's also too high to fit the story of the 450 foot Ark.

Shape and size fits perfectly.

Fits what perfectly?

Wyatt was also on CNN in the shortened film below.
The 37 min film from the original DVD is in that link (not from the Aliens )

Mountains of Ararat.
I happened to be Armenian by nationality - what are the odds. :o
I used to spend summers in Armenia when little. I know Lake Van and Mount Ararat.
The text presents the plural "mountains" of Ararat

That's because there is a greater and a lesser Ararat. The ONLY way the Raven and Dove story can fit, is for the Ark to be floating in a Lake.

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm

Noah's Ark Overview

Top Points to Consider

1. It is in the shape of a boat, with a pointed bow and rounded stern.​

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm

Since the Ark was the first boat ever made, Noah wouldn't have known that.

1. Exact length as noted in biblical description, 515 feet or 300 Egyptian cubits. (Egyptian not Hebrew cubit would have been known to Moses who studied in Egypt then wrote Genesis.)[/QUOTE​

   ​

False, since God is the Author of Scripture. He moved Moses to write what He breathed to him, from inside him. Noah arrived thousands of years BEFORE there was even a country called Egypt. Noah arrived 10k years ago and Egypt was in it's glory 5k years later.​

​

1. It rests on a mountain in Eastern Turkey, matching the biblical account, "The ark rested . . . upon the mountains of Ararat" Genesis 8:4. (Ararat being the name of the ancient country Urartu which covered this region.)​
2. Contains petrified wood, as proven by lab analysis.​
3. Contains high-tech metal alloy fittings, as proven by separate lab analyses paid for by Ron Wyatt, then performed later by Kevin Fisher of this web site. Aluminum metal and titanium metal was found in the fittings which are MAN-MADE metals!​
4. Vertical rib timbers on its sides, comprising the skeletal superstructure of a boat. Regular patterns of horizontal and vertical deck support beams are also seen on the deck of the ark.​
5. Occupied ancient village at the ark site at 6,500 ft. elevation matching Flavius Josephus' statement "Its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day." ​
6. Dr. Bill Shea, archaeologist found an ancient pottery sherd within 20 yards of the ark which has a carving on it that depicts a bird, a fish, and a man with a hammer wearing a headdress that has the name "Noah" on it. In ancient times these items were created by the locals in the village to sell to visitors of the ark. The ark was a tourist attraction in ancient times and today.​
7. Recognized by Turkish Government as Noah's Ark National Park and a National Treasure. Official notice of its discovery appeared in the largest Turkish newspaper in 1987.​
8. Visitors' center built by the government to accommodate tourists further confirms the importance of the site.​
9. Huge anchor stones were found near the ark and in the village Kazan, 15 miles away, which hung off the rear of the ark to steady its ride.​
10. The ark rests upon Cesnakidag (or Cudi Dagi) Mountain, which is translated as "Doomsday" Mountain.​
11. Dr. Salih Bayraktutan of Ataturk University stated, "It is a man made structure, and for sure it's Noah's Ark" Common Sense. This same article also states "The site is immediately below the mountain of Al Judi, named in the Qur'an as the resting place of the Ark." Houd Sura 11:44​
12. Radar scans show a regular pattern of timbers inside the ark formation, revealing keels, keelsons, gunnels, bulkheads, animal chambers, ramp system, door in right front, two large barrels in the front 14' x 24', and an open center area for air flow to all three levels.​

1. ​

Sounds to me like a Tourist attraction which has lost it's following. I'm sure it was man made long ago by the desire to bilk the gullible out of their tourist dollars. Also, Why would the anchors be so far away from the ship? Did they fall off before the Wreck, which Scripture omitted? What other industry do the locals have?

In Love,
Aman

 

[Davian]

I flipped forward to 31 min where they were using dowsing rods to lay out the shape of a boat with ribbons. Arhg.

Did I say dowsing rods? I meant to say molecular frequency generator discriminator.

 

[SkyWriting]

I do not accept that the study of the Bible alone, in English, is sufficient. Claims of understanding the Bible better with the help of the Holy Spirit ....

The Bible is not required reading. Says the Bible.

New International Version
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

[SkyWriting]

If it is shown to be untrue I just close the thread and go away mumbling to myself not to believe YouTube videos.

ALL VIDEO has the potential to be very convincing. You should expect very little from video other than entertainment value.

Not that no scientists create VIDEO of their findings. It can be deceptive.

 

[46AND2]

The Bible is not required reading. Says the Bible.

New International Version
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Really? It's not necessary to read the Bible to understand the Bible? I do not think that is what the verse is saying.

 

[Davian]

The Bible is not required reading. Says the Bible.

New International Version
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Invisible qualities that are clearly seen? Is this an example of biblical humour?

 

[Edial]

I don't disrespect the Bible. I think it has a lot of good things to say. My mother, best friend, and one of my brothers are still devout Christians, and I have no interest in trying to take that away from them. I'm just not convinced the supernatural claims are true.

I have done plenty of study of the Bible itself, and my conclusions are based upon that reading, mostly. Of course I study other people's interpretations who are more knowledgeable about the original languages and nuances of the culture of that time, but the more liberal interpretations are much more convincing to me.

I do not accept that the study of the Bible alone, in English, is sufficient. Claims of understanding the Bible better with the help of the Holy Spirit are entirely unsupported by the fact that there are SO MANY different and contradictory interpretations among believers who claim to be guided by said deity. If the Holy Spirit were a guide, there would not be so many opinions. It is much more likely that the differences between denominations are due to human interpretation based on varying levels of information that each believer is cognizant of.

(bolded)
Good point.

Let's also not forget that some denominations developed due to social as well as political differences.
So clearly, the local church is not necessarily the example of how Heaven is.

The work of Holy Spirit is not to necessarily interpret the Bible itself. Any studious reader could do that once s/he honestly reads the text, understands the background and so forth.

Some also, unfortunately, use the Bible to push it's own agenda whether believer or a non-believer.

The work of Holy Spirit in each individual is to edify him/her while reading and reflecting.
And once one gets edified, Holy Spirit also teaches the willing reader how to apply Bible to daily life.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Edial]

Really? It's not necessary to read the Bible to understand the Bible? I do not think that is what the verse is saying.

SkyWriter is correct.

That text says that by observation of nature one could deduct even without the Bible that there is a divine power, God at work.

RO 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Edial]

Invisible qualities that are clearly seen? Is this an example of biblical humour?

No.
Are your qualities visible?

 

[Edial]

I flipped forward to 31 min where they were using dowsing rods to lay out the shape of a boat with ribbons. Arhg.

Did I say dowsing rods? I meant to say molecular frequency generator discriminator.

What else did you pick up outside of the 31st min?

 

[bhsmte]

SkyWriter is correct.

That text says that by observation of nature one could deduct even without the Bible that there is a divine power, God at work.

RO 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Thanks,
Ed

What qualities are you referring to?

How do you know those qualities are divine in nature?

 

[Edial]

And from your source:


"Aluminum metal and titanium metal was found in the fittings which are MAN-MADE metals!"

Now you are claiming that modern technology existed back in those days. It takes electrical power to make aluminum. It is even worse for Titanium:

Kroll process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The man as much as admitted that it was a fraud right there.

Why would he call himself a fraud?
He just reported and tested what he found.
Noah's Ark Overview

Apparently there was a way to make alloys.
He is just reporting what he found.

Metal Used in the Ark!​

The ark contains a large amount of metal fittings which were used to secure the large timbers together. These two photos below are from our October 2000, trip to the site. Notice how there was once two large rivet fasteners, but now only one is left. A large metal plate was positioned behind the rivets. I received a positive metal reading when passing the metal detector over the rivets. We should not be surprised to find metal alloys used in the ark, because Genesis 4:22 states, "Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron." photos Kevin Fisher
​

(Left) Ron Wyatt found a beautiful specimen of one of the metal rivets used on the ark. It was tested and found to contain high-tech metal alloys, such as titanium, magnesium, and aluminum, etc. Critics have said Ron did not find this fine specimen on the ark but just manufactured it. Well, as you will see below, we found the same objects and had them tested. They too proved to have the same metals, in the same percentages! (Below) Two rough rivets in lower portion of photo. photo Kevin Fisher​

Our Own Metal Samples Tested
Lab Report Shows
Rivet Contains Man-Made Metals!​

Click for PDF of Report on washer

Below is what appears to be part of a large washer that would have been slipped over a shaft and then secured on the shaft by flaring out the end of the shaft. We have drawn circles on the photo to demonstrate the circular effect in the specimen. The surrounding material on the side of the ark around this object had a greenish color. Assuming a circular shape, this sample would be the same size as the rivet found by Mr. Wyatt. (The photo at right is of the rivet as we found it on the ark)​

Galbraith Laboratories of Knoxville Tennessee has tested the specimen for three metals I requested. I asked them to test for aluminum metal, iron metal, and titanium metal. It costs $60 to test for each metal requested. The results show 8.35 % iron metal, 8.35% aluminum metal, and 1.59% titanium metal. ALUMINUM AND TITANIUM METALS ARE NOT FOUND IN NATURE!!! THIS OBJECT IS MAN-MADE, USING ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY!! These results are similar to those produced in the analysis of the rivet found by Mr. Wyatt. Since the specimen is fossilized, it is assumed a large portion of it is now silica replacement, reducing the percentage of metal that was originally in it when it was made. These rivets are found in several locations on the outside of the Ark, and are probably buried inside the Ark by the hundreds or thousands. In comparison to others, this specimen is in poor condition.​

Second specimen
is also man-made
with aluminum metal!​

The second item I had tested by the lab reveals that is is also man-made. It was found on the side of the ark. It produced positive metal readings with my metal detector when I was at the site. Later in Istanbul, I tested it with a magnet which produced an attraction to it. It appears to have been flared out (left photo) by pounding the center when it was hot. The left hand photo is facing us the way it appeared on the starboard side of the Ark. Notice the side view (right view) which shows the tapering effect. Test results from Galbraith Labs, completed in June 2001, reveal it has man-made aluminum metal in it! It contains 8.08 percent aluminum metal, 8.24 percent iron metal, 1.34 percent titanium metal, and 3.82 percent magnesium metal. Click on link below to read lab report.​

 

[Edial]

You can fake claims that there was wood, rivetts, etc. Wyatt never produces any of this evidence, and his claims about anchor stones are fiction.

But there are evidences of the tests.
BTW, how do you fake a 515 area of land, tests, photos ... they had no photoshop ... Turkish government confirmations ...

No problem.
If that is your opinion it's fine.

 

[Edial]

These are all claims, nobody has access to those materials.

FAQ ... I just found this.
The more I look the more interesting it gets.
It covers probably every criticism line by line, also to Answers in Genesis step-by-step.

Just scroll a page or so down to Noah's Ark.

Frequently Asked Questions

 

[46AND2]

SkyWriter is correct.

That text says that by observation of nature one could deduct even without the Bible that there is a divine power, God at work.

RO 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Thanks,
Ed

I think you need to reread my statement carefully.

 

[Edial]

Dear Ed, It's also too high to fit the story of the 450 foot Ark.



Fits what perfectly?



That's because there is a greater and a lesser Ararat. The ONLY way the Raven and Dove story can fit, is for the Ark to be floating in a Lake.



Since the Ark was the first boat ever made, Noah wouldn't have known that.

1. ​
   
   

Sounds to me like a Tourist attraction which has lost it's following. I'm sure it was man made long ago by the desire to bilk the gullible out of their tourist dollars. Also, Why would the anchors be so far away from the ship? Did they fall off before the Wreck, which Scripture omitted? What other industry do the locals have?

In Love,
Aman

Dear Aman.

Can you please look at the Q/A about the objections on many topics including objections from Answers in Genesis?
Scroll down to AIG ...

Frequently Asked Questions

Thanks,
Ed

 

[CabVet]

FAQ ... I just found this.
The more I look the more interesting it gets.
It covers probably every criticism line by line, also to Answers in Genesis step-by-step.

Just scroll a page or so down to Noah's Ark.

Frequently Asked Questions

Still only claims, not one gram of evidence.

 

[Edial]

ALL VIDEO has the potential to be very convincing. You should expect very little from video other than entertainment value.

Not that no scientists create VIDEO of their findings. It can be deceptive.

Could be, yet here is the FAQ about responding to these critiques ...
Frequently Asked Questions

 

[CabVet]

Could be, yet here is the FAQ about responding to these critiques ...
Frequently Asked Questions

Neither the video nor the FAQ provide any evidence, only claims.

 

[[serious]]

I saw this UFOTV edition on finding the Noah's Ark by Wyatt.

I got some time and I'm in the mood for comedy. My comments as i go:

1:50 Clicky line machine. But "LINES ARE THERE!" No idea what this means.
4:00 flood mythologies are common in mythologies: Irrelevant. The central point of the peice is not that floods happen, but that one specific flood happened and that it left evidence which they have discovered. If I'm trying to prove that Billy stole my bike, I need to demonstrate that billy has a bike, that that bike is the same bike which I formerly had, and that it got there via theft. Saying, "lots of bikes are stolen every year!" is irrelevant.
8:40 Well, they just identified that lots of fake claims have been made.
10:40 getting bored.
12:32 evidence of a massive flood,
13:00 a planet sized object passing near enough to cause planet wide floods? No ship would survive such waters. I'm also wondering what such a flyby would do to the atmosphere.
20:00 "examined with a metal detector" Hmm, ark was made of wood. "man made alloys" which ones?
20:30 something that looks kind of like an anchor stone not by the supposed find? Oh, I mean a bunch of such stones, because there were a bunch of arks? A bunch of anchors for one ark that all got up and walked off?
25:00 BORED get to the data.
31:00 "molecular frequency generator discriminator" "no one knows how it works" let me google that: Ah, they are the same bogus devices that were sold as "bomb detectors" and have never been shown to reliably detect anything better than random chance. Explosive detection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Basically, dowsing reveals patterns that the dowser wanted to reveal. Wow, shocking...
33:30 looks like a iron ore rock to me.
34:50 Ooo! radar! That's apparently the clicky line thing. apparently lines are there, but we are never told anything else about this test. but, um, lines are there?
40:00 moon pool. I'm assuming Noah didn't construct airlocks, meaning that the ship would need some alternate source of bouancy than the air withing the vessel. The proposed shape does not seem to provide that.
42:30 They show drawings of their proposed shape, but not any evidence that it is born out by the formation.

Ok, I'm done. Basically, it breaks down to "hey, we will use questionable methods to get the results we want then claim those results we wanted support the conclusions we already came to!"

Can't believe I wasted an hour of my life.