Another Noah's thread (no stoning please :))

[Edial]

Actually, most of what I know about the Bible comes from my own reading, and consultation with Christian and Jewish scholars. Very little comes from anti-Christian sites.

So, please stop making this assumption. I guarantee you I am not alone in this.

Actually most of the opinions about the Bible come from what someone says or comments on or underlines.

Very few opinions from non-Christians come from actual reading and study in the context by having an open mind.
I am not saying this is true across the board.

I was fortunate to have been an atheist from USSR, a Communist state.
Some call it a strong atheist.


Why fortunate?
Because my mind was not polluted by opinions of others about the Bible (Christian or otherwise). Teachers in school were telling us there is no God.
No problem. There is no God.

When someone gave me a Bible (in US), I was very impressed in it.
Did not understand much of it in the beginning though.

Many atheists in USSR respected Christ as a historical figure.
Respected him very much.
Soviet orchestras were playing Handel's Messiah with no problem or negative feelings.

So, because I respected Jesus of Nazareth I originally looked at the Bible with respect. I was about 30.

Once you have respect, the rest falls in place.
If you do not, or if one is like an ex-Baptist or ex-Catholic, some type of an ex, one's mind is already cluttered with negative opinions.
This is the general rule of thumb.
It is usually true.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Edial]

I find frauds to be slightly entertaining.

Did you watch it or just peaked at it?

 

[Loudmouth]

Did you watch it or just peaked at it?

Did you read the website outlining the frauds that Ron Wyatt has perpetrated over the years?

 

[Edial]

Dear Ed, It's not true to Scripture and doesn't make sense because Adam's world was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. Isaiah 24:19 Our world was NOT destroyed in the Flood. It doesn't make sense to search for a 450 foot covered Ark, the size of an Oceanliner, on top of Mt. Ararat or Mt. Judi. The Ark arrived in the mountains of Ararat in Lake Van, the largest Lake in the mountains of Ararat and Turkey. Otherwise, the people and animals would have been killed when the Ark broke apart on the Mountains, some of which are more than 16k feet tall and covered with snow.

The film also falsely supposes that the Flood, which completely destroyed the world that THEN WAS (ll Peter 3:5) was a local flood on our Earth. It's a dead giveaway that the writers of this foolishness do NOT understand Scripture. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Just found a site with the highlights of the find.
It also says it was found at 6500 ft up, too high for a local flood.
Shape and size fits perfectly.
Wyatt was also on CNN in the shortened film below.
The 37 min film from the original DVD is in that link (not from the Aliens )

Mountains of Ararat.
I happened to be Armenian by nationality - what are the odds. :o
I used to spend summers in Armenia when little. I know Lake Van and Mount Ararat.
The text presents the plural "mountains" of Ararat


Noah's Ark Overview
Top Points to Consider

1. It is in the shape of a boat, with a pointed bow and rounded stern.​
2. Exact length as noted in biblical description, 515 feet or 300 Egyptian cubits. (Egyptian not Hebrew cubit would have been known to Moses who studied in Egypt then wrote Genesis.)​
3. It rests on a mountain in Eastern Turkey, matching the biblical account, "The ark rested . . . upon the mountains of Ararat" Genesis 8:4. (Ararat being the name of the ancient country Urartu which covered this region.)​
4. Contains petrified wood, as proven by lab analysis.​
5. Contains high-tech metal alloy fittings, as proven by separate lab analyses paid for by Ron Wyatt, then performed later by Kevin Fisher of this web site. Aluminum metal and titanium metal was found in the fittings which are MAN-MADE metals!​
6. Vertical rib timbers on its sides, comprising the skeletal superstructure of a boat. Regular patterns of horizontal and vertical deck support beams are also seen on the deck of the ark.​
7. Occupied ancient village at the ark site at 6,500 ft. elevation matching Flavius Josephus' statement "Its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day." ​
8. Dr. Bill Shea, archaeologist found an ancient pottery sherd within 20 yards of the ark which has a carving on it that depicts a bird, a fish, and a man with a hammer wearing a headdress that has the name "Noah" on it. In ancient times these items were created by the locals in the village to sell to visitors of the ark. The ark was a tourist attraction in ancient times and today.​
9. Recognized by Turkish Government as Noah's Ark National Park and a National Treasure. Official notice of its discovery appeared in the largest Turkish newspaper in 1987.​
10. Visitors' center built by the government to accommodate tourists further confirms the importance of the site.​
11. Huge anchor stones were found near the ark and in the village Kazan, 15 miles away, which hung off the rear of the ark to steady its ride.​
12. The ark rests upon Cesnakidag (or Cudi Dagi) Mountain, which is translated as "Doomsday" Mountain.​
13. Dr. Salih Bayraktutan of Ataturk University stated, "It is a man made structure, and for sure it's Noah's Ark" Common Sense. This same article also states "The site is immediately below the mountain of Al Judi, named in the Qur'an as the resting place of the Ark." Houd Sura 11:44​
14. Radar scans show a regular pattern of timbers inside the ark formation, revealing keels, keelsons, gunnels, bulkheads, animal chambers, ramp system, door in right front, two large barrels in the front 14' x 24', and an open center area for air flow to all three levels.​

 

[CabVet]

Noah's Ark Overview
Top Points to Consider

1. It is in the shape of a boat, with a pointed bow and rounded stern.​
2. Exact length as noted in biblical description, 515 feet or 300 Egyptian cubits. (Egyptian not Hebrew cubit would have been known to Moses who studied in Egypt then wrote Genesis.)​
3. It rests on a mountain in Eastern Turkey, matching the biblical account, "The ark rested . . . upon the mountains of Ararat" Genesis 8:4. (Ararat being the name of the ancient country Urartu which covered this region.)​
4. Contains petrified wood, as proven by lab analysis.​
5. Contains high-tech metal alloy fittings, as proven by separate lab analyses paid for by Ron Wyatt, then performed later by Kevin Fisher of this web site. Aluminum metal and titanium metal was found in the fittings which are MAN-MADE metals!​
6. Vertical rib timbers on its sides, comprising the skeletal superstructure of a boat. Regular patterns of horizontal and vertical deck support beams are also seen on the deck of the ark.​
7. Occupied ancient village at the ark site at 6,500 ft. elevation matching Flavius Josephus' statement "Its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day." ​
8. Dr. Bill Shea, archaeologist found an ancient pottery sherd within 20 yards of the ark which has a carving on it that depicts a bird, a fish, and a man with a hammer wearing a headdress that has the name "Noah" on it. In ancient times these items were created by the locals in the village to sell to visitors of the ark. The ark was a tourist attraction in ancient times and today.​
9. Recognized by Turkish Government as Noah's Ark National Park and a National Treasure. Official notice of its discovery appeared in the largest Turkish newspaper in 1987.​
10. Visitors' center built by the government to accommodate tourists further confirms the importance of the site.​
11. Huge anchor stones were found near the ark and in the village Kazan, 15 miles away, which hung off the rear of the ark to steady its ride.​
12. The ark rests upon Cesnakidag (or Cudi Dagi) Mountain, which is translated as "Doomsday" Mountain.​
13. Dr. Salih Bayraktutan of Ataturk University stated, "It is a man made structure, and for sure it's Noah's Ark" Common Sense. This same article also states "The site is immediately below the mountain of Al Judi, named in the Qur'an as the resting place of the Ark." Houd Sura 11:44​
14. Radar scans show a regular pattern of timbers inside the ark formation, revealing keels, keelsons, gunnels, bulkheads, animal chambers, ramp system, door in right front, two large barrels in the front 14' x 24', and an open center area for air flow to all three levels.​

These are all claims made by the "discoverers". Nobody else has examined any of that. In other words, there is no evidence.

 

[Edial]

Did you read the website outlining the frauds that Ron Wyatt has perpetrated over the years?

I did not find anything on fraud concerning Noah's Ark.
You haven't either.

Here are the points that were made in that video .

Noah's Ark Overview

Top Points to Consider

1. It is in the shape of a boat, with a pointed bow and rounded stern.​
2. Exact length as noted in biblical description, 515 feet or 300 Egyptian cubits. (Egyptian not Hebrew cubit would have been known to Moses who studied in Egypt then wrote Genesis.)​
3. It rests on a mountain in Eastern Turkey, matching the biblical account, "The ark rested . . . upon the mountains of Ararat" Genesis 8:4. (Ararat being the name of the ancient country Urartu which covered this region.)​
4. Contains petrified wood, as proven by lab analysis.​
5. Contains high-tech metal alloy fittings, as proven by separate lab analyses paid for by Ron Wyatt, then performed later by Kevin Fisher of this web site. Aluminum metal and titanium metal was found in the fittings which are MAN-MADE metals!​
6. Vertical rib timbers on its sides, comprising the skeletal superstructure of a boat. Regular patterns of horizontal and vertical deck support beams are also seen on the deck of the ark.​
7. Occupied ancient village at the ark site at 6,500 ft. elevation matching Flavius Josephus' statement "Its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day." ​
8. Dr. Bill Shea, archaeologist found an ancient pottery sherd within 20 yards of the ark which has a carving on it that depicts a bird, a fish, and a man with a hammer wearing a headdress that has the name "Noah" on it. In ancient times these items were created by the locals in the village to sell to visitors of the ark. The ark was a tourist attraction in ancient times and today.​
9. Recognized by Turkish Government as Noah's Ark National Park and a National Treasure. Official notice of its discovery appeared in the largest Turkish newspaper in 1987.​
10. Visitors' center built by the government to accommodate tourists further confirms the importance of the site.​
11. Huge anchor stones were found near the ark and in the village Kazan, 15 miles away, which hung off the rear of the ark to steady its ride.​
12. The ark rests upon Cesnakidag (or Cudi Dagi) Mountain, which is translated as "Doomsday" Mountain.​
13. Dr. Salih Bayraktutan of Ataturk University stated, "It is a man made structure, and for sure it's Noah's Ark" Common Sense. This same article also states "The site is immediately below the mountain of Al Judi, named in the Qur'an as the resting place of the Ark." Houd Sura 11:44​
14. Radar scans show a regular pattern of timbers inside the ark formation, revealing keels, keelsons, gunnels, bulkheads, animal chambers, ramp system, door in right front, two large barrels in the front 14' x 24', and an open center area for air flow to all three levels.​

 

[CabVet]

I did not find anything on fraud concerning Noah's Ark.
You haven't either.

I haven't found any evidence.

You haven't found any either.

Your list provides claims, not evidence.

Even Robert Ballard claims he found the Ark:

Evidence Suggests Noah's Ark Flood Existed, Says Robert Ballard, Archaeologist Who Found Titanic

 

[Edial]

These are all claims made by the "discoverers". Nobody else has examined any of that. In other words, there is no evidence.

.

Scroll down in the site - metal used, timber used, rivets used ...
Scroll down the site.

Noah's Ark Overview

 

[Loudmouth]

I did not find anything on fraud concerning Noah's Ark.

"For the past several years it has been claimed by Ron Wyatt that he has discovered Noah's ark. The site he claims to have "discovered," however, was originally discovered in 1959 by a Turkish captain. While the Durupinar site is about the right length for Noah's ark, it is, in addition, too wide to be Noah's ark. Wyatt has claimed that the "boat-shapedness" of this formation can only be explained by its being Noah's ark, but both Shea and Morris have offered other plausible explanations. Likewise, Wyatt has argued that the standing stones he has found are anchors, while Terian is aware of similar stones outside the Durupinar site area that were pagan cultic stones later converted by Christians for Christian purposes. "
Has Noah's Ark Been Found? Part I

Ron Wyatt is a con man. The sooner you figure this out, the less embarrassed you will be.

 

[CabVet]

.

Scroll down in the site - metal used, timber used, rivets used ...
Scroll down the site.

These are all claims, nobody has access to those materials.

 

[Edial]

I haven't found any evidence.

You haven't found any either.

Your list provides claims, not evidence.

Even Robert Ballard claims he found the Ark:

Evidence Suggests Noah's Ark Flood Existed, Says Robert Ballard, Archaeologist Who Found Titanic

Evidence ...
Noah's Ark Overview

Scroll down the site.

Did you watch the video?

 

[CabVet]

Evidence ...
Noah's Ark Overview

Scroll down the site.

Did you watch the video?

Do you understand the difference between a claim and evidence? And yes, I did watch the video. It is very convincing, but it presents no evidence.

 

[Seipai]

Why do you think that the wood would have petrified in only 4,000 years? In the midwest water well drillers find 10,000 year old wood from the last glaciation every not and then:

http://www.ltrr.arizona.edu/~panush/FOPirina&steveproof2.pdf

The find would have been a lot more believable if they had found an Ark made of wood rather than one made of stone.

The last time I checked most stones sank.

 

[Edial]

"For the past several years it has been claimed by Ron Wyatt that he has discovered Noah's ark. The site he claims to have "discovered," however, was originally discovered in 1959 by a Turkish captain. While the Durupinar site is about the right length for Noah's ark, it is, in addition, too wide to be Noah's ark. Wyatt has claimed that the "boat-shapedness" of this formation can only be explained by its being Noah's ark, but both Shea and Morris have offered other plausible explanations. Likewise, Wyatt has argued that the standing stones he has found are anchors, while Terian is aware of similar stones outside the Durupinar site area that were pagan cultic stones later converted by Christians for Christian purposes. "
Has Noah's Ark Been Found? Part I

Ron Wyatt is a con man. The sooner you figure this out, the less embarrassed you will be.

I told you from the beginning I am not a specialist.
You are.
Nothing to be embarrassed about.
He is responding to similar stones theory as well.
The shape is also addressed and it does fit the Biblical text perfectly.
You can't fake a 515 ft shape on the earth.

 

[Seipai]

Evidence ...
Noah's Ark Overview

Scroll down the site.

Did you watch the video?

And from your source:


"Aluminum metal and titanium metal was found in the fittings which are MAN-MADE metals!"

Now you are claiming that modern technology existed back in those days. It takes electrical power to make aluminum. It is even worse for Titanium:

Kroll process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The man as much as admitted that it was a fraud right there.

 

[bhsmte]

.

 

[Edial]

Do you understand the difference between a claim and evidence? And yes, I did watch the video. It is very convincing, but it presents no evidence.

That was all I asked.
You are da' man.
The only one who watched. (Maybe not the only one).
Most of the folks just wasted their time without actually going to the source.
We can debate evidences ... outside of the actual huge site, of course.

 

[Loudmouth]

I told you from the beginning I am not a specialist.
You are.
Nothing to be embarrassed about.
He is responding to similar stones theory as well.
The shape is also addressed and it does fit the Biblical text perfectly.
You can't fake a 515 ft shape on the earth.

You can fake claims that there was wood, rivetts, etc. Wyatt never produces any of this evidence, and his claims about anchor stones are fiction.

 

[46AND2]

Actually most of the opinions about the Bible come from what someone says or comments on or underlines.

Very few opinions from non-Christians come from actual reading and study in the context by having an open mind.
I am not saying this is true across the board.

I was fortunate to have been an atheist from USSR, a Communist state.
Some call it a strong atheist.


Why fortunate?
Because my mind was not polluted by opinions of others about the Bible (Christian or otherwise). Teachers in school were telling us there is no God.
No problem. There is no God.

When someone gave me a Bible (in US), I was very impressed in it.
Did not understand much of it in the beginning though.

Many atheists in USSR respected Christ as a historical figure.
Respected him very much.
Soviet orchestras were playing Handel's Messiah with no problem or negative feelings.

So, because I respected Jesus of Nazareth I originally looked at the Bible with respect. I was about 30.

Once you have respect, the rest falls in place.
If you do not, or if one is like an ex-Baptist or ex-Catholic, some type of an ex, one's mind is already cluttered with negative opinions.
This is the general rule of thumb.
It is usually true.

Thanks,
Ed

I don't disrespect the Bible. I think it has a lot of good things to say. My mother, best friend, and one of my brothers are still devout Christians, and I have no interest in trying to take that away from them. I'm just not convinced the supernatural claims are true.

I have done plenty of study of the Bible itself, and my conclusions are based upon that reading, mostly. Of course I study other people's interpretations who are more knowledgeable about the original languages and nuances of the culture of that time, but the more liberal interpretations are much more convincing to me.

I do not accept that the study of the Bible alone, in English, is sufficient. Claims of understanding the Bible better with the help of the Holy Spirit are entirely unsupported by the fact that there are SO MANY different and contradictory interpretations among believers who claim to be guided by said deity. If the Holy Spirit were a guide, there would not be so many opinions. It is much more likely that the differences between denominations are due to human interpretation based on varying levels of information that each believer is cognizant of.

 

[HitchSlap]

Here, I think this guy found the ark.

The Search For Noah's Ark | Bob Cornuke