Announcement: CO Forums

[DeanM]

It's a new day. New day, new owner, new rules, new staff.

Yup. I served LeeD.

There's been no cleansing. Further, you do a GREAT disservice to those who actually *are* suffering due to institutionalized cleansing.

I respect your opinion. I disagree.

If you were involved in cleansing, then I can understand a why feeling of residual guilt would lead someone to be this disruptive.

I said I was involved with the discussion. I was opposed to the cleansing. I was quite clear.

"Fire!"

"We salute you" -ACDC

Sorry, do you think you're some lone wolf who is here to right the wrongs perpetrated by the behemoth that is ebil staff? As has been categorically stated by a wealth of the advisors, icon yanking will. not. happen.

Good. I'm supportive of that decision and welcome any efforts to keep it that way.

No, am afraid that's not the case. You're all but accusing staff of lying about icon yanking - that's not simply calmly saying something.

I respect your assessment. I disagree with it.

 

[CaDan]

Please knock it off. Again, you are indirectly calling those who do not honor your request by pledging as being villains. This is not right, nor fair. It is an insult to all of staff and this is just wrong.

Please stop it.

They didn't look like villians before. Your implication to the contrary doesn't make them look like villians now, either.

Such was not my intention and I do apologize for addressing Debi's concern with appearances.

You are all, of course, free to make whatever decisions and compromises you wish regarding this issue.

 

[FaithfulWife]

I am making a public challenge.

Every Staffer--from the lowest trainee Moderator to the most senior Advisor--who posts that there will be no forced icon changes is challenged to immediately resign from any position with Christian Forums if even one forced icon change is done.

Are you willing to do this? Are you willing to put your position of power on the line?

I realize this is from page one, but yes. If ONE icon is changed, forced to be changed, or in any way altered other than voluntary member changing it--I will resign and set my name to that commitment, and here's why.

It is not up to me to judge who is and is not "christian enough" and I will NOT support, work for, or encourage any power structure that does such a thing.

I hate to tell you but I'm one of the ones likely to have this happen -- if it were to happen. I myself personally have been a believer since I was 9yo (that's when I accepted Christ for myself). I was baptized Lutheran an infant, baptized in a non-denominational church at 9yo, and again in a Bible Church at about 14yo. At about 35yo I converted to Judaism and became a Messianic Jew. My dear hubby is Calvinist (through and through!), and our family attends a Christian Reformed Church. Am I a Christian believer? YOU BET YA. But am I "christian enough" to post in the CO forums? (shrug) I identify myself as a Messianic JEW....so am I even a Christian at all? or am I a Jew? And I go to a calvinist church?

See...this icon thing is not so cut-and-dried. But you have my word and vow, CaDan.

 

[tulc]

It's a new day. New day, new owner, new rules, new staff.

...but it will still be the same railroad, right?
tulc(just sayn')

 

[FaithfulWife]

I think that's too much to ask. I can imagine rare situations where forced icon changes might be necessary -- e.g. when someone with a Christian icon posts unambiguously atheist or non-Christian comments.

I don't think that's too much to ask. It is not my job, as a moderator, to look into the heart of another and decide if their relationship with G-d is "christian enough".

My job is to work reports of violations, and as best as I can to minister to the body of Christ. PERIOD.

 

[CaDan]

I realize this is from page one, but yes. If ONE icon is changed, forced to be changed, or in any way altered other than voluntary member changing it--I will resign and set my name to that commitment, and here's why.

It is not up to me to judge who is and is not "christian enough" and I will NOT support, work for, or encourage any power structure that does such a thing.

I hate to tell you but I'm one of the ones likely to have this happen -- if it were to happen. I myself personally have been a believer since I was 9yo (that's when I accepted Christ for myself). I was baptized Lutheran an infant, baptized in a non-denominational church at 9yo, and again in a Bible Church at about 14yo. At about 35yo I converted to Judaism and became a Messianic Jew. My dear hubby is Calvinist (through and through!), and our family attends a Christian Reformed Church. Am I a Christian believer? YOU BET YA. But am I "christian enough" to post in the CO forums? (shrug) I identify myself as a Messianic JEW....so am I even a Christian at all? or am I a Christian? And I go to a calvinist church?

See...this icon thing is not so cut-and-dried. But you have my word and vow, CaDan.

Thank you.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

...but it will still be the same railroad, right?
tulc(just sayn')

No, but it won't, tulc. Do you see that no-one has *any* reason to even suggest this? It's fear-mongering, pure and simple. CF isn't CF if it doesn't have some huge drama drawing the crowds into Support - we all know that. We went a few months without it, so now this is being used as an excuse.

No-one is prevaricating about the icon issue. It's not like the advisors are hedging their bets and being as unequivocal as possible so they can wiggle their way out in the future. From the top level down, it's been stated repeatedly without caveat or question that icon yanking is a thing of the long, distant path.

Several staff - inluding advisors - have publicly stated they'd leave if it were to change, and many feel the same way but refuse to pander to this.

Instead of worrying about this, we should be praying, and reaching out to the people who may feel hurt or worried about it all.

 

[Debi1967]

Steve you and I are allowed to disagree that is ok and thanks for the apology it is appreciated. I just want to tell you how I see this board even when I thought it was at it's worst. I still saw in it that it had God and that people here had a genuine desire to serve the purpose of something Higher than themselves. That they wanted to preach the good news to others and to make known the words of God for all to hear or see even in some way.

I converted to Catholicism and accepted the premise of the Trinity through teachings that members went through with me on here when I thought I was at my worst. When I couldn't make sense of things people here were there to help me make sense of them, even you when I was having a crisis in Faith. Do you remember that time and then inviting to help you with wikipedia? You gave me a special purpose and it was then that I saw this site in such a much larger scale than I did.

I don't have to agree with the advisors and LeeD on everything what I have to do is remember that God lives here because God's people reside here and because of that I will always have a job to do for the Lord.

 

[FaithfulWife]

Your request is unreasonable. Most of those who are posting that there will be no forced icon changes are simply passing on the information they have been given. Most of them could not affect such a change to begin with and most would have no knowledge of the action if it was taken.

I respectfully disagree with this. As a moderator there is no way on this green earth that I could effect any kind of policy change. It just isn't what I do. As I understand it, Mods moderation violation reports, Admins sort of supervise the mods, Advisors work on policy, and Lee is the one ring that rules them all. But here's what I *can* do. I'm a staff member. If a "higher up" were to come to me and say "change this icon because it's our policy" I can say no--I won't do it. If someone "higher up" were to force a member to change their icon I wouldn't hear about it immediately but I would eventually...and at that point I can resign on the spot because I refuse to be part of any political system that judges people's christianity. I am on staff right now, in the Recovery area, for one reason and one reason only, and that is to minister to people in that forum area who desperately need encouragement, love, acceptance, support and biblical wisdom. The day that my job forces a bipolar member (for example) to change their icon because in their mania they said, "God is silly I know better than He does" is the day I quit!! In good conscience I can't support it with my continued work.

Does that make sense?

 

[Athene]

CaDan... knock it off. Your request is not necessary. Staff is not and should not be obligated to answer your question or request. Please do not indirectly insult their honor if they refuse to do so.

Thanks.

Can't you understand why people such as CaDan would be a bit antsy about this, and concerned that it may herald in forced icon changes and witch hunts?

I don't believe that offering assurances to the members of our online community that we will never again attempt to play God is unnecessary and on that note, I do solemnly pledge that I will resign from staff if we go back to forced icon changes.

 

[Debi1967]

Can't you understand why people such as CaDan would be a bit antsy about this, and concerned that it may herald in forced icon changes and witch hunts?

I don't believe that offering assurances to the members of our online community that we will never again attempt to play God is unnecessary and on that note, I do solemnly pledge that I will resign from staff if we go back to forced icon changes.

No actually Athene I cannot understand why someone like CaDan who is an ex Admin of all people and before that Big Kahuna of Wikipedia for a long time would ask any staffer knowing what staff does for the board that we are not out to get anyone that we are not on some witch hunt all the time as some people would like to think ect ect insert whatever euphemism you wish here that makes us look bad that we all volunteer our time and that most of us are not power hungry mongrels No I do not understand why someone like that would want some reassurances

 

[D'Ann]

Such was not my intention and I do apologize for addressing Debi's concern with appearances.

Some times I think it's difficult in wording things and that is how misunderstandings happen.

You are all, of course, free to make whatever decisions and compromises you wish regarding this issue.

Not sure what to say.

God's peace,

D'Ann

 

[D'Ann]

Can't you understand why people such as CaDan would be a bit antsy about this, and concerned that it may herald in forced icon changes and witch hunts?

Of course I do. Did I say otherwise? No. I just think there is a right approach and a wrong approach in seeking answers. And when the same question has been answered by several staff people including 2 Advisors and then the question is still asked and then staff is being told (indirectly) that if they don't make a pledge, they could be considered villains or dishonorable, that part, I have a difficult time understanding.

If some staff wants to make the pledge, fine. And if some staff doesn't want to "play that game", that is fine too. Either way is fine, but to imply indirectly that those of staff who do not make this pledge are dishonorable or villians... that is not fine.

That being said, Steve apologized and said that was not his intention. He is an honorable person and I believe him and so, I would like to let this go.

I don't believe that offering assurances to the members of our online community that we will never again attempt to play God is unnecessary and on that note, I do solemnly pledge that I will resign from staff if we go back to forced icon changes.

That is fine to make the pledge.

I do recommend that you read the whole thread because if you do, you will recognize that the same question is repeatedly asked over and over and over again and hurtful implications have been made and that is what I object to.

God's peace,

D'Ann

 

[CaDan]

No actually Athene I cannot understand why someone like CaDan who is an ex Admin of all people and before that Big Kahuna of Wikipedia for a long time would ask any staffer knowing what staff does for the board that we are not out to get anyone that we are not on some witch hunt all the time as some people would like to think ect ect insert whatever euphemism you wish here that makes us look bad that we all volunteer our time and that most of us are not power hungry mongrels No I do not understand why someone like that would want some reassurances

You missed a position in there between Big Kahuna and Admin. Actually, you missed two, but only one of them was official.

 

[Debi1967]

You missed a position in there between Big Kahuna and Admin. Actually, you missed two, but only one of them was official.

Yes I forgot SuperAdmin too but I have held that position too so there

 

[Lisa0315]

If Cf is cancer on the Cross of Christ then so are all the Churches out there too because the same things that happen on this board happen in churches everyday ...

Not true. How many people go to church and become de-converts because of the treatment they receive by the congregation? More so, how many churches put signs on their doors stating that only certain people are welcome and that it will not be much fun for anyone who does not fit the criteria?

Lisa

 

[D'Ann]

Hi Lisa... and ouch! Not sure even what to say.

 

[Lisa0315]

Hi Lisa... and ouch! Not sure even what to say.

Sorry, D'Ann. I just feel very strongly about the fact that some folks are not welcome here. I also predicted that as soon as that was accomplished, then, it would begin again on who was and who was not a True Christian.

Lisa

 

[rushingwind62]

Not true. How many people go to church and become de-converts because of the treatment they receive by the congregation? More so, how many churches put signs on their doors stating that only certain people are welcome and that it will not be much fun for anyone who does not fit the criteria?

Lisa

Many get fed up and discouraged with church, because of gossip, judgementalism, and bickering. Just like here at CF. Churches are full of divisions dating all the way back to the early church. Or have you not read some of Paul's letters of rebuke? And CF helps many people, it not just a debate board. Go to recovery and see just how many are helped. Go to the minstry section and see how many are helped. Many people have even came to the Lord as a result of this board! Contrary to belief! Is CF perfect? Far from it and do you know why? Because none of us are perfect. Is CF right on everything. Nope! But Lee is the owner of this board and he has a vision. It is okay to disagree with him but IMO, if you want to be a part of this board and his staff you should conform to his vision. If anyone doesn't want to do that then quit staff or find another board The internet is full of them! But everyone should stop whining and start uniting with one another. It is time to STOP this bickering back and forth and start working inwardly to to fix the problems here at CF. And do you know where that starts? YOURSELF!!! AND MYSELF!!

 

[FaithfulWife]

Personally I don't see how discussing the past positions of someone and their mistakes or not is very applicable to THIS topic. As I understand it, this topic is most clearly related to a post like this:

Incidently, I read this in the original post written by the staff member, and in it I do not see what it is you and some others are railing against. It says that those who post in that area who don't have Christian icons, will have their posts removed and that those who do have a Christian icon but make posts contrary to Christian beliefs will have their posts, (the ones that espouse rhetoric that opposes Christian beliefs) not their icons removed: "Only members who have selected a Christian icon will be able to post in these forums. Any post by members with a non-Christian icon will be removed by staff. If a member selects a Christian icon, but is not Christian, we will not be removing their icon (i.e. no forcible icon changes). However, any post that is contrary to Christian Forums' Statement of Faith will be removed."

And BlackJack, I'm not trying to call you out or anything, so please do not take this personally. It just so happens that your quote very eloquently shows the issue here.

I myself am a Messianic Jew. You saw what I wrote about my Christianity, right? I personally believe in celebrating my salvation via upholding Jewish holidays and traditions. Obviously there is a LOT to go over, but let me give you one easy example. If I come to the Theology Forum and ask about The Day of Repentance, and I say: "I believe it's a good thing to have one day a year that is an annual day to contemplate the sins of the past year and to humbly ask G-d for forgiveness...and that G-d honors that repentance" that is a distinctly Jewish tradition. I believe we should repent as we are made aware of our sin too, but for now we're using the Day of Repentance example. So who decides if my post is "christian enough"? Who decides if The Day of Repentance is contrary to Christian belief? The Nicene Creed does not address it. The SoF does not address it. It is not a Christian concept or tradition. So does my post get deleted as not being christian enough?

In my opinion THAT is the concern. That human beings, who are lovely, generous, volunteers but not perfect and not G-d, will be put in the position of deleting posts because of someone's interpretation of it "not being christian enough" or because of pressure or because of politics or favoritism or ANY of the other things in life that do occur because we ARE humans and we ARE fallible.

See, I have NO IDEA if CaDan is christian enough to state that he's having doubts about this or that because I can not see into his heart! I (as a moderator) have no way of knowing Moriah's heart when she posts something about her struggles with christianity and christians because I'm not G-d or her judge.

Anyway, let's not bicker about positions someone may or may not have held or things someone may or may not have done--that's the past and probably misunderstandings. For now let's stay on topic--WHO JUDGES who is a Christian? I signed because I can tell ya...it's not me!