Annihilation=No Wrath

[Der Alte]

Annihilation... cute yet that's not what His word says. "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
Yeah I'm going with what God says

Death is the point in time end of life, it has no physical presence and cannot be thrown anywhere and cannot die a first death so it certainly can't die a second death."Hell" could refer to the grave which would be empty at that time. Empty can't be thrown anywhere. But there is a death and hell which are sentient beings and can be thrown into the LOF.

Revelation 6:8
(8) And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​

These two can be thrown into the LOF and their power to kill ended.

 

[ozso]

I thought annihilate means to end their existence forever ? make it disappear forever

"Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark." Genesis 7:23

They were killed, wiped out, obliterated, annihilated.

"All existing creatures that had lived on the surface of the ground were annihilated, from humans to livestock, from crawling creatures to birds of the sky. They were wiped off the earth. Only Noah remained, along with those who were with him in the ark." Genesis 7:23 International Standard Version

The idea is on the Last Day, God will wipe out, obliterate, annihilate all of the unsaved wicked with fire, they way he did before with water.

Were the wicked in Noah's time punished though annihilation? Yes.

Were the people in Sodom and Gomorrah punished through annihilation? Yes

 

[Der Alte]

Wrong.
That's what I wrote: "Gehenna is in reference to the Valley of Ben Hinnom." And I posted scripture from Jeremiah and 2 Kings.

In the NT I don't know of any vs. where Gehenna refers to the valley outside Jerusalem. Since it was never a trash dump, if fire is mentioned, it certainly does not refer to the valley.

 

[ozso]

But you believe that the word destruction and destroy always means annihilation ?

Annihilation is a descriptive term for God wiping out and obliterating the wicked with fire on the Last Day, the same as He wiped out and obliterated the wicked with water in the Flood.

 

[BurningBush84]

Shouldn't rejecting Jesus have the most severe consequences imaginable ? Or is Jesus not worthy enough ? Wouldn't God want to be the greatest Savior imaginable ? And what is the greatest form of savior imaginable ? One who saves mankind from annihilation ? Or one who saves mankind from eternal torment ?

Atheists don't believe in an afterlife. Yet they say, "Rest In Peace" when someone dies. They don't believe someone is actually sleeping forever, but they know resting in peace/ eternal sleep is basically the same thing as non existence . You say Toe May Toe, I say, Toe Mott Toe.

Why should an Atheist be concerned with annihilation when they basically already believe in annihilation already? Resting In Peace forever is basically the same thing as annihilation. Why should atheists fear Gods wrath if Gods wrath is Resting In Peace forever ? Being thrown into a a lake of fire would result in a very quick death. I bet Jesus would have preferred a quick death.

 

[Chaleb]

"..... but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Romans 12:19

"........their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them". Deuteronomy 32:35

Annihilation seems very peaceful Is that what the Bible really teaches ??

John 3:36

2 Thessalonians 1:8

 

[BurningBush84]

The word annihilate is not in the Bible. But you pretend it is.

 

[ozso]

In the NT I don't know of any vs. where Gehenna refers to the valley outside Jerusalem. Since it was never a trash dump, if fire is mentioned, it certainly does not refer to the valley.

I did not say anything about a burning trash dump.

I said Ghenna was the Valley of Ben Hinnom, where sacrifices by way of fire were made, the same as the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia did. I posted scripture from Jeremiah and 2 Kings, the same as the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia did.

 

[ozso]

The word annihilate is not in the Bible. But you pretend it is.

Nobody has said or pretended that the word annihilate is in the Bible. You're just having a semantics crisis.

 

[Halbhh]

... Why should an Atheist be concerned with annihilation when they basically already believe in annihilation already? Resting In Peace forever is basically the same thing as annihilation. Why should atheists fear Gods wrath if Gods wrath is Resting In Peace forever ? Being thrown into a a lake of fire would result in a very quick death. I bet Jesus would have preferred a quick death.

Well, human souls that "perish" there in the "second death", which will "destroy body and soul" (Mt 10:28) will first experience a terrible grief and anguish from their impending end it seems, as they will first experience "weeping and gnashing of teeth" we read.
They will know what they rejected, and know how real and final the coming real death is....it will no longer be something they can pretend or imagine away....they won't be able to say the self-programming comfort words "I'm ok with dying" that people like to say to themselves.

This payment of debt...also applies for Christians that do not forgive some others (!) -- they will not be released until they have paid the last penny of their debt:

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

21 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times.

23 “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. 24 When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents (or 'bags of gold' in the NIV). 25 And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’ 27 And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt.
(amazing grace!)

28 But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay what you owe.’
29 So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you.’ 30 He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt.

31 When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. 32 Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’

34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

Matthew 18 ESV

biblehub.com

(ten thousand talents or bags of gold...that's not a quick and easy thing to pay off............)

 

[BurningBush84]

They say to fear the Lord only means respect the Lord. But my eyes don't see the word respect, my eyes see what it says, and it says fear. God is in control. It may also mean respect but the word still says fear. If God wanted it to say respect he would have it his way. I don't see the word annihilate anywhere in the Bible. I see the word destroy and destruction. We use the word destroy all the time and we dont mean something disappeared forever or ceased to exist forever. A person with lung cancer may say, "smoking 2 packs a day destroyed my lungs". But if they didnt have any lungs they wouldnt be able to say those words. Or a old homeless man on the street may say alcohol destroyed his life. Yet he still is alive. Or the tornados that recently destroyed towns. Those towns still exist. Obviously destroy can mean to sustain extreme damage.

 

[ozso]

Shouldn't rejecting Jesus have the most severe consequences imaginable ? Or is Jesus not worthy enough ? Wouldn't God want to be the greatest Savior imaginable ? And what is the greatest form of savior imaginable ? One who saves mankind from annihilation ? Or one who saves mankind from eternal torment ?

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned— Romans 5:12

For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! Romans 5:17

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 1 Corinthians 15:21

When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 1 Corinthians 15:54

“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 1 Corinthians 15:55

Indeed, we felt we had received the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 2 Corinthians 1:9

Atheists don't believe in an afterlife. Yet they say, "Rest In Peace" when someone dies. They don't believe someone is actually sleeping forever, but they know resting in peace/ eternal sleep is basically the same thing as non existence . You say Toe May Toe, I say, Toe Mott Toe.

Why should an Atheist be concerned with annihilation when they basically already believe in annihilation already? Resting In Peace forever is basically the same thing as annihilation. Why should atheists fear Gods wrath if Gods wrath is Resting In Peace forever ? Being thrown into a a lake of fire would result in a very quick death. I bet Jesus would have preferred a quick death.

Atheists aren't concerned about eternal torture either, because they don't believe in it. Atheists and apostates don't believe what Bible says about heaven or any version of hell. They care as little about what the Bible says, as you care about what the Koran says about what happens to those who don't believe in Islam.

 

[ozso]

They say to fear the Lord only means respect the Lord. But my eyes don't see the word respect, my eyes see what it says, and it says fear. God is in control. It may also mean respect but the word still says fear. If God wanted it to say respect he would have it his way. I don't see the word annihilate anywhere in the Bible. I see the word destroy and destruction. We use the word destroy all the time and we dont mean something disappeared forever or ceased to exist forever. A person with lung cancer may say, "smoking 2 packs a day destroyed my lungs". But if they didnt have any lungs they wouldnt be able to say those words. Or a old homeless man on the street may say alcohol destroyed his life. Yet he still is alive. Or the tornados that recently destroyed towns. Those towns still exist. Obviously destroy can mean to sustain extreme damage.

Where you should be going to in understanding it, is to the first time God destroyed wiped out annihilated all of the wicked in existence.

God has already done it. It has already happened before. There's nothing that makes it impossible or even improbable for God to do it again, for the last time.

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:37

 

[BurningBush84]

Where you should be going to in understanding it, is to the first time God destroyed wiped out annihilated all of the wicked in existence.

God has already done it. It has already happened before. There's nothing that makes it impossible or even improbable for God to do it again, for the last time.

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:37

 

[BurningBush84]

Hey MMXX, for my sake,,, i hope you are right. Do me a favor, would you? Tell me what Revelation 14 :9-11 really means.

 

[Der Alte]

I did not say anything about a burning trash dump.
I said Ghenna was the Valley of Ben Hinnom, where sacrifices by way of fire were made, the same as the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia did. I posted scripture from Jeremiah and 2 Kings, the same as the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia did.

I certainly appreciate that bit of irrelevance.

 

[BurningBush84]

What about 1 Peter 3:19 ??? Which "prison" was this referring too ?? Just curious . Hades ? Hell ? Gehenna ? Tartarus ? Lake of Fire ?

 

[ozso]

Hey MMXX, for my sake,,, i hope you are right. Do me a favor, would you? Tell me what Revelation 14 :9-11 really means.

I don't know if it's right or not. I just think it's possible, that's all. Revelation 14:9-11 is about those who worship the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand.

There's always been a lot of postulating and debate about what the beast, and especially its mark is. Seventh-day Adventism says the mark is those who go to church on Sunday instead of Saturday. Some say it's the Covid vaccine. Some say it's going to be a microchip, or an RFID tag, or a QR code.

Revelation uses exaggerated language, says cryptic things, and gives strange imagery. Like; "And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth... The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces". Rev 9

Revelation 14:11 says; "There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

But Revelation 22:5 says, "There will be no more night."

Revelation is hard to figure out. And there are four separate Christian views of it.

 

[ozso]

What about 1 Peter 3:19 ??? Which "prison" was this referring too ?? Just curious . Hades ? Hell ? Gehenna ? Tartarus ? Lake of Fire ?

The traditional view is the place where the rich man and Lazarus were in Luke 16:19-31

 

[BurningBush84]

I don't know if it's right or not. I just think it's possible, that's all. Revelation 14:9-11 is about those who worship the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand.

There's always been a lot of postulating and debate about what the beast, and especially its mark is. Seventh-day Adventism says the mark is those who go to church on Sunday instead of Saturday. Some say it's the Covid vaccine. Some say it's going to be a microchip, or an RFID tag, or a QR code.

Revelation uses exaggerated language, says cryptic things, and gives strange imagery. Like; "And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth... The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces". Rev 9

Revelation 14:11 says; "There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

But Revelation 22:5 says, "There will be no more night."

Revelation is hard to figure out. And there are four separate Christian views of it.

And YOU see nothing in common with Rev 14:11 and Luke 16:23 ?????