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This isn't a UR thread. Annihilation goes against universalism.
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This isn't a UR thread. Annihilation goes against universalism.Some folks believe that when Jesus "Not everyone shall enter the kingdom of heaven." that He really didn't mean that.
Sometimes "know/knew" is a euphemism for having sex in the KJV.While I do believe that having no recollection of this world is a possibility I don’t see that this particular verse from Matthew 7 actually supports the idea. The term “I never knew you” is referring to never having an intimate relationship with Christ. It doesn’t mean that He doesn’t remember them or didn’t know who they are. The word is used similarly in Matthew 1:25
“and knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.”
Matthew 1:25 KJV
Surely we can agree that Joseph knew who Mary was before she gave birth to Christ.
This is incorrect. It is only an oft repeated internet rumor that Gehenna was used as a perpetually burning trash dump. There was a trash dump in a valley outside Jerusalem but it was not Gehenna it was the next valley over, the Kidron valley. So, when Jesus mentioned Gehenna He was talking about the place of etrernal fiery punishment which the Jews called both Gehenna and hades.Gehenna is not hades, though.
Hades and tartaros are Greek concepts, sheol and gehenna are Jewish concepts. Gehenna was a valley where trash was being destroyed by fire. The trash was not supposed to be eternal, only the fire was, for new and new trash.
NT being written in Greek might use Greek concepts to present the teachings of Jesus to the Greek/Roman readers, but its uncertain if Jesus used Greek concepts in his teachings. For example the apostle John did (the concept of divine Logos). But its possible that when Jesus said "sheol", the Greek authors of Gospels used "hades", as it was the closest available concept for the readers to understand.
I'm not making this stuff up. You are mistaken I know what you want to believe. The Jewish Encyclopedia article I linked to documents that as early as 800 BC among Jews there was a belief in a place of fiery eternal p[unishment and they called it both Ge Hinnom and sheol, in Hebrew, which was written in the 225 BC Jewish translation of the OT into Greek as Gehenna and Hades.Gehenna is not hades, though.
Hades and tartaros are Greek concepts, sheol and gehenna are Jewish concepts. Gehenna was a valley where trash was being destroyed by fire. The trash was not supposed to be eternal, only the fire was, for new and new trash.
NT being written in Greek might use Greek concepts to present the teachings of Jesus to the Greek/Roman readers, but its uncertain if Jesus used Greek concepts in his teachings. For example the apostle John did (the concept of divine Logos). But its possible that when Jesus said "sheol", the Greek authors of Gospels used "hades", as it was the closest available concept for the readers to understand.
If God gave you the choice of being in the Kingdom of Heaven, or being annihilated, I seriously doubt you'd say it doesn't matter because both offer the the same benefits. By your reasoning being in a coma must also be like being in the Kingdom of Heaven.
"Heaven, it's just like being in a coma".
These are benefits only to living, thinking and experiencing creatures. Not dying, not feeling pain etc has no benefit for somebody who does not exist.
It's rather absurd to compare what will be experienced in the Kingdom of Heaven to nonexistence. Those in the Kingdom of Heaven will be able to experience joy in such things and be thankful for it. The annihilated wouldn't. Everything will be given to those in the in the Kingdom of Heaven. Everything would be taken away from the annihilated.I thought we were talking about things that happen or don't happen after we die. "“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony."
I never said Annihilation is the same as heaven. I said it has the same benefits as described in Revelation 21:4.
Do annihilated people cry, mourn or feel any kind of sadness ? No.
Do annihilated people fear death or die ? No.
Do annihilated people ever feel any pain ? No.
Are annihilated people being punished ? No. They don't exist. You cant punish what doesn't exist. Punishment does not exist for people who do not exist.
Is a virgin who gets a vasectomy punishing his future children by depriving them of life ????? Of course not. That's ridiculous. Your interpretation of Matthew 25:46 is more ridiculous than my analogy of Rev 21:4. Your interpretation of Matt 25:46 is similar to what happened in Genesis 3:1 .
While it is true that the lake of fire is called the second death twice, Rev never says anyone/anything is thrown into the LOF then they/it dies. In Rev 20:10 three sentient beings, one, the false prophet, is a person, but they don't die they are tormented day and night for ever and ever.Annihilation... cute yet that's not what His word says. "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
Yeah I'm going with what God says
"He desecrated Topheth, which was in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, so no one could use it to sacrifice their son or daughter in the fire to Molek." 2 Kings 23:10Gehenna is not hades, though.
Hades and tartaros are Greek concepts, sheol and gehenna are Jewish concepts. Gehenna was a valley where trash was being destroyed by fire. The trash was not supposed to be eternal, only the fire was, for new and new trash.
NT being written in Greek might use Greek concepts to present the teachings of Jesus to the Greek/Roman readers, but its uncertain if Jesus used Greek concepts in his teachings. For example the apostle John did (the concept of divine Logos). But its possible that when Jesus said "sheol", the Greek authors of Gospels used "hades", as it was the closest available concept for the readers to understand.
It's rather absurd to compare what will be experienced in the Kingdom of Heaven to nonexistence. Those in the Kingdom of Heaven will be able to experience joy in such things and be thankful for it. The annihilated wouldn't. Everything will be given to those in the in the Kingdom of Heaven. Everything would be taken away from the annihilated.
I never said anything about annihilation.This isn't a UR thread. Annihilation goes against universalism.
Why not? Annihilation the topic of this thread.I never said anything about annihilation.
That is incorrect."He desecrated Topheth, which was in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, so no one could use it to sacrifice their son or daughter in the fire to Molek." 2 Kings 23:10
"They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin." Jeremiah 32:35
He burned sacrifices in the Valley of Ben Hinnom and sacrificed his children in the fire, engaging in the detestable practices of the nations the Lord had driven out before the Israelites. 2 Chronicles 28:3
Gehenna is in reference to the Valley of Ben Hinnom.
Why isn't the word annihilation in the Bible ?Why not? Annihilation the topic of this thread.
And yet the most severe punishment has always been the punishment of death ie annihilation.A person can't endure punishment if they don't exist . A person cant feel punishment if they don't exist. A person that doesn't exist cant be punished. You can't punish someone that doesn't exist. God's wrath is Hell. That's what Jesus saved us from. God's wrath is not eternal sleep. There is no wrath in sleep . The Bible speaks about God's love and his wrath. Wrath is the complete opposite of Resting In Peace for all eternity.
So Jesus was annihilated ?And yet the most severe punishment has always been the punishment of death ie annihilation.
Annihilate is a synonym for kill.So Jesus was annihilated ?
For the same reason the word Trinity isn't in the Bible.Why isn't the word annihilation in the Bible ?
I thought annihilate means to end their existence forever ? make it disappear foreverAnnihilate is a synonym for kill.
Wrong.That is incorrect.
That's what I wrote: "Gehenna is in reference to the Valley of Ben Hinnom." And I posted scripture from Jeremiah and 2 Kings.1906 Jewish Encyclopedia - Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell,
For the same reason the word Trinity isn't in the Bible.
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