"...And your Lord is never forgetful..."

[wn123455]

What is the difference between a Muslim and an Islamist, in your opinion?

Why don't you look up the definition of muslim and islamist on Wikipedia?

 

[Aristocles X]

Why don't you look up the definition of muslim and islamist on Wikipedia?

He was clearly not asking you for the definition He asked you in Your view what the difference is.

 

[Galilee63]

"Further My Children do not think that there are other gods before My Son Jesus, your Saviour. Pray My Children to My Son Jesus your Saviour, fast (if healthy) and repent sins from a remorseful heart".

"That is all".

Received by The Blessed Virgin Mary our Heavenly Mother at 11:35

 

[Aristocles X]

"Further My Children do not think that there are other gods before My Son Jesus

So the Father is not God in that case? If he is does that mean he is also the son of Mary as she says not to take any other gods before her Son?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Received by The Blessed Virgin Mary our Heavenly Mother at 11:35

 

[wn123455]

He was clearly not asking you for the definition He asked you in Your view what the difference is.

In my opinion islamists are muslim extremists. In my opinion muslims are people who follow the religion islam.

 

[Galilee63]

"Not to take False Gods" before Jesus/God/The Holy Spirit - Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One.

Kindest wishes your Sister in Jesus Christ our Saviour

 

[smaneck]

Well, then what they'd get would not be a democracy, since their religion would assert and force its idiosyncratic beliefs upon everyone, regardless of whether they share them or not.

There are plenty of democracies which don't necessarily embrace the concept of the separation of church and state, England being the primary example. The real issue is how they deal with religious pluralism.

What is ironic is that those European democracy which do not have this concept are decidedly less religious than us Americans.

 

[smaneck]

So the Father is not God in that case? If he is does that mean he is also the son of Mary as she says not to take any other gods before her Son?

Uh, she is relating to you her own personal revelations. Might not be able to enter into dialogue with her.

 

[smaneck]

In my opinion islamists are muslim extremists. In my opinion muslims are people who follow the religion islam.

Here's the problem with your definition. There are extremists who happen to be Muslims, but their extremism may or may not have anything to do with Islam. The Grey Wolves, for instance, promote an extremist Turkish nationalism. I expect most of them are at least nominally Muslim, but they are not Islamists.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

There are plenty of democracies which don't necessarily embrace the concept of the separation of church and state, England being the primary example. The real issue is how they deal with religious pluralism.

What is ironic is that those European democracy which do not have this concept are decidedly less religious than us Americans.

Aye, I phrased that rather poorly. It's not so much about abandoning allegiance to a specific religion as it is about making sure that freedom of religion is ascertained for all citizens. (And Britain in particular had a pretty gruesome history in this regard until they finally figured out how to manage this).

In Germany, the separation between church and state is nowhere near as pronounced as in the USA: the state collects church taxes for both the Catholics and the EKD (i.e. the federation of major protestant sects), and each of the major churches teaches religious education classes at public schools. The result of this is that crazy radicals are a minority, and that virtually nobody outside of the lunatic fringe tries to campaign for creationism being taught in biology class.
Barring the occasional insane religious nutcase among the teaching body (a friend of mine had to cope with a teacher who told her charges that they ought to pray for their parents if they didn't attend church regularly, because this clearly indicated that they were not only headed for hell, but possessed by demons), religious education classes are eminently sane.
We not only learned about what other religions believed, but also became familiar with various forms of Biblical criticism.


There are instances where this lack of neutrality on the part of the German state conflicts with my notions of what a genuinely liberal democracy ought to be like, though. For example, some federal states feature laws that prohibit "loud" parties on holidays such as Good Friday: clubs have to remain closed, even though religious people would be perfectly free to stay away from them without spoiling the evening for everybody else.
I also think that religious freedom should not supersede other basic human rights, especially when the welfare of minors is concerned. The German state was quick to prohibit even the mildest forms of female circumcision (which amount to approximately the same degree of invasiveness as the male equivalent, taking away the foreskin and thus desensitizing the primary sexual organ), but did not grant young boys the same degree of protection, possibly because Germany is still smarting with historical guilt, and such a law could be interpreted as an attack on Judaism. Personally, I do not respect traditions that so clearly violate the bodies of unconsenting minors, regardless of how long these customs have been in practice. Just imagine a new religion that required its members to, say, cut off the earlobes of all newborn babies: the public outcry (and resulting legal backlash) would be loud and clear, yet the horror of male circumcision has been dulled by familiarity alone.

 

[14messenger]

Aye, I phrased that rather poorly. It's not so much about abandoning allegiance to a specific religion as it is about making sure that freedom of religion is ascertained for all citizens. (And Britain in particular had a pretty gruesome history in this regard until they finally figured out how to manage this).

In Germany, the separation between church and state is nowhere near as pronounced as in the USA: the state collects church taxes for both the Catholics and the EKD (i.e. the federation of major protestant sects), and each of the major churches teaches religious education classes at public schools. The result of this is that crazy radicals are a minority, and that virtually nobody outside of the lunatic fringe tries to campaign for creationism being taught in biology class.
Barring the occasional insane religious nutcase among the teaching body (a friend of mine had to cope with a teacher who told her charges that they ought to pray for their parents if they didn't attend church regularly, because this clearly indicated that they were not only headed for hell, but possessed by demons), religious education classes are eminently sane.
We not only learned about what other religions believed, but also became familiar with various forms of Biblical criticism.

So your for the Holy Bible and against "nutcases"?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

So your [sic] for the Holy Bible and against "nutcases"?

Try to read that post again. I'm sure you'll figure out what I was trying to convey. It's not that ambiguously worded.

On second thought, let me try to condense it down as much as possible:

I'm for religious liberty, meaning that if you want to believe in the Holy Bible, the Qur'an, the Liber Al vel Legis, the Upanishads, the Gardnerian Book of Shadows, dianetics and the Galactic Emperor Xenu, or space aliens imparting divine wisdom to a french sports car journalist (just to mention a few), you should be free to do so.

It does not matter how ridiculous your beliefs are - for as long as you do not infringe upon the rights of others, it's none of my business, nor anybody else's but your own. The state should not force you to adhere to the tenets of another religion, nor should it keep you from embracing whatever custom you believe you have to follow (again, limited by other basic human rights). Of course, I expect YOU to extend the same courtesy to others as well.

I do not care much for the "Holy Bible", at least not as a foundation for my world view, even if there are some gems of timeless wisdom in there that I cherish. But if that stuff floats your boat, that's your business.

I hope that clarified my response a bit more.

 

[14messenger]

I don't remmeber typing [sic]. Must be an attack against me.

 

[14messenger]

On second thought, let me try to condense it down as much as possible:

Don't ever try to "condense it down" for me.(verbal abuse against me) Your trying to appear to understand yet still not convinced that God is all. Perhaps I should use more colorul terms to try and attract you jane_the_bane. Hope I don't sound too vain.

 

[14messenger]

The state should not force you to adhere to the tenets of another religion,

So your saying that the Christian forum site is right?

Christians are free to interact with one another without being told they are wrong?

 

[14messenger]

Big words are elementry.

And logic is either good or evil. Also elementry.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

I don't remmeber[sic] typing "[sic]". Must be an attack against me.

From Wikipedia:

"The Latin adverb sic ("thus"; in full: sic erat scriptum, "thus was it written") added immediately after a quoted word or phrase (or a longer piece of text), indicates that the quotation has been transcribed exactly as found in the original source, complete with any erroneous or archaic spelling or other nonstandard presentation."

Hope this helps to clear up this little misunderstanding. I work in academia, and having to proofread, critique and grade essays (not to mention writing them myself) for quite a while, I've been sensitized to poor spelling and grammar. Adding "sic" to obvious mistakes has become second nature to me, and I won't see the English language mangled without commenting upon it.

Because poor literacy is NOT "kewl".

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Don't ever try to "condense it down" for me.(verbal abuse against me)

Wait - what?
You asked me a question.
I provided you with an answer - and now that's "verbal abuse"?
I could see it if you perceived the preceding advice to read my post again as condescending, but to complain about the actual answer to your remark strikes me as rather odd.

Your [sic] trying to appear to understand yet still not convinced that God is all. Perhaps I should use more colorul [sic] terms to try and attract [sic] you jane_the_bane. Hope I don't sound too vain.

"Attract"? I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to convey here, 14messenger. Are you trying to come on to me?

 

[wn123455]

Here's the problem with your definition. There are extremists who happen to be Muslims, but their extremism may or may not have anything to do with Islam. The Grey Wolves, for instance, promote an extremist Turkish nationalism. I expect most of them are at least nominally Muslim, but they are not Islamists.

The grey wolves are sectarian muslims.

Maraş Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia