"...And Your Lord is Never Forgetful..." II

[ArmenianJohn]

Thank you for your response, I was really trying to provoke Love a little and was responding to his 2nd posting.

“The recent shooting in Chattanooga once again displays the double standards with which Muslims are treated (see here, here, here, and here) . It didn't take very long at all for authorities or the media to consider (or treat) this an act of terrorism…”

People in America are going to look at all violence perpetrated by a known Muslim as having an element of terrorism.

I would say that is what happened in Missouri, a few of the old settlers (300 or so) did not like the Mormons moving in, they drank heavily and preformed some acts of violence. A few Mormons (30 or so) retaliated with their own violence. Each side began treating the whole as guilty rather than the individuals.

What is different here is those that committed the acts were excommunicated, thrown out of the Church. With Islam there are whole faction which make violence part of their religion and duty.

It’s hard for us Americans to tell the differences between the peaceful Muslims and the violent ones. The Tsarnaev brothers looked normal to everyone, no one had any idea they were seething with hate. All of your reassurance that Muslims don't lie isn't going to change it.

So that leaves me and all Americans questioning all Muslims. Until Muslims themselves get their religion in order it’s going to be than way.

Mormonism is essentially a new, Americanized version of Islam. Like Islam, Mormons believe in their holy wars and have even had their Danites and Mormon armies fight wars against the US. Joseph Smith declared himself to be another mohammed and mormonism to be a new Islam.

So it's kind of odd that a Mormon would take such a myopic view towards Muslims when they are essentially of the same backgrounds. Exclusive houses of worship, dietary laws, polygamy, a "prophet" (Smith/Mohammed) who married underage girls, a new "Scripture" in addition to Christian Scripture, history of violence and jihad, etc. They are religious cousins.

By the way, why do you wonder why Muslims don't "get their religion in order" but you don't question or wonder why Mormons don't get THEIR religion in order? You still have polygamist Mormons who abuse women and children in every way - physically, sexually, emotionally. You still have your main university named after a well-known Polygamist Mormon, Brigham Young, who was also a self-declared enemy of the USA.

As a Christian, shouldn't I wonder why Mormons don't get THEIR religion in order?

 

[smaneck]

Joseph Smith declared himself to be another mohammed and mormonism to be a new Islam.

Show me where Joseph Smith said that.

 

[Arthra]

Mormonism is essentially a new, Americanized version of Islam.

Gee I don't think I'd agree with that one Armenian John! I realize some people might think that but there are in my view vast differences between how the Qur'an was revealed and how the Book of Mormon came about ...

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Gee I don't think I'd agree with that one Armenian John! I realize some people might think that but there are in my view vast differences between how the Qur'an was revealed and how the Book of Mormon came about ...

Again, it's a new, AMERICANIZED version of Islam. The way the Book of Mormon came about incorporated an American occultic practice, i.e. the "seer stone" that Joseph Smith used. Of course, both the Book of Mormon and Quran were claimed to have been revealed to their respective prophets by Angels (Moroni and Gabriel, respectively). So the revelation of these scriptures to their respective prophets isn't all that different.

 

[smaneck]

Again, it's a new, AMERICANIZED version of Islam.

You stated that "Joseph Smith declared himself to be another mohammed and mormonism to be a new Islam."
I've asked for evidence of this. You've produced none. Until you do we must assume you are slandering two religions at once.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Mormonism is essentially a new, Americanized version of Islam. Like Islam, Mormons believe in their holy wars and have even had their Danites and Mormon armies fight wars against the US. Joseph Smith declared himself to be another mohammed and mormonism to be a new Islam.

So it's kind of odd that a Mormon would take such a myopic view towards Muslims when they are essentially of the same backgrounds. Exclusive houses of worship, dietary laws, polygamy, a "prophet" (Smith/Mohammed) who married underage girls, a new "Scripture" in addition to Christian Scripture, history of violence and jihad, etc. They are religious cousins.

By the way, why do you wonder why Muslims don't "get their religion in order" but you don't question or wonder why Mormons don't get THEIR religion in order? You still have polygamist Mormons who abuse women and children in every way - physically, sexually, emotionally. You still have your main university named after a well-known Polygamist Mormon, Brigham Young, who was also a self-declared enemy of the USA.

As a Christian, shouldn't I wonder why Mormons don't get THEIR religion in order?

Gees you've been fed a lot of misinformation.

The Mormons never started a war they were only protecting themselves and sometimes they over reacted. And again we ex our 'secret combinations'. They can't seem to do something like that in Islam. I haven't seen anyone stand up and say if you put a bomb on a Russian plane killing 224 people you will go to hell. If some Islamic cleric is doing it he can't be making much noise. I listen to the news all day long and I haven't heard a thing. When those planes ran into our towers many (not all) Islamic people cheered.

I think what hit me is Loves attempt to claim persecution here in the US when no one is burning down their Mosque or even protesting in front of them. They get some occasional vandalism but so does everyone else, I know we do. If you look up Catholic churches vandalized you'll see there's quite a bit of it. They are allowed to say no to delivering beer but Christians can't say no to baking a wedding cake. The boy with the clock should have thought that threw a little harder, of course Americans are going to react to a black box, we've been conditioned for it.

I would like Love tell us how are we to know whose on which side? Which black box has a bomb in it and which one doesn't?

 

[smaneck]

The Mormons never started a war they were only protecting themselves and sometimes they over reacted.

That is pretty much true of Islam as well, at least during Muhammad's life time.

T

hey can't seem to do something like that in Islam. I haven't seen anyone stand up and say if you put a bomb on a Russian plane killing 224 people you will go to hell.

Have you bothered to check?

If some Islamic cleric is doing it he can't be making much noise.

Or maybe Faux News just failed to report it. Admittedly however, Muslims are going to be slow to condemn this bombing, not because of any sympathy with ISIS, but because of Russia's indiscriminate bombing of Sunnis in Syria. However, when it comes to condemning terrorism in general, Muslims have not been silent:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/01/07/what-fox-wont-show-you-muslim-leaders-are-conde/202049

I listen to the news all day long and I haven't heard a thing.

Prior to the bombing of this airline the Russian bombs killed 254 civilians. How many Christian leaders have condemned those?

When those planes ran into our towers many (not all) Islamic people cheered.

The people who were seen cheering were Palestinians and you don't know whether they were Muslims or Christians. When Saddam Hussein started lobbing Scud Missiles at Israel during the Gulf War, the Christian Bishops in Jerusalem all toasted to his health.

I think what hit me is Loves attempt to claim persecution here in the US when no one is burning down their Mosque or even protesting in front of them.

Even Faux News knows better than that:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/0...upremacists-for-tennessee-mosque-bombing.html

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/05/12/Mosque-in-Jacksonville-Fla-firebombed/UPI-85931273693653/

http://www.khou.com/story/local/2015/11/06/11480214/

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/13/arson-eyed-in-houston-area-mosque-torching.html

Sometimes they don't even wait for the mosque to be built. In Murfreesboro they set fire to the equipment being used to build it.

As for protests:

http://www.news4jax.com/news/G-ville-Church-Protests-Islamic-Center/1996536
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/3...x-mosque-for-islam-protests-as-police-keep-2/

They are allowed to say no to delivering beer but Christians can't say no to baking a wedding cake

Here is the difference. Observant Muslims won't have anything to do with serving beer to anyone. Christians want to make their living baking cakes for some people and not others. The first is following their religion. The second is discrimination.

.

The boy with the clock should have thought that threw a little harder, of course Americans are going to react to a black box, we've been conditioned for it.

It was a brief case, not a black box.

I would like Love tell us how are we to know whose on which side? Which black box has a bomb in it and which one doesn't?

No one is faulting them for checking out the brief case. It is when they arrested the kid, knowing he had no bomb that they did wrong.

I see you spewing all the hatred and spreading all the lies against Muslims that Evangelicals have done against Mormons. Good job! You just lost my sympathy.

 

[Aidan K]

That is pretty much true of Islam as well, at least during Muhammad's life time.

T

Have you bothered to check?



Or maybe Faux News just failed to report it. Admittedly however, Muslims are going to be slow to condemn this bombing, not because of any sympathy with ISIS, but because of Russia's indiscriminate bombing of Sunnis in Syria. However, when it comes to condemning terrorism in general, Muslims have not been silent:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/01/07/what-fox-wont-show-you-muslim-leaders-are-conde/202049



Prior to the bombing of this airline the Russian bombs killed 254 civilians. How many Christian leaders have condemned those?



The people who were seen cheering were Palestinians and you don't know whether they were Muslims or Christians. When Saddam Hussein started lobbing Scud Missiles at Israel during the Gulf War, the Christian Bishops in Jerusalem all toasted to his health.



Even Faux News knows better than that:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/0...upremacists-for-tennessee-mosque-bombing.html

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/05/12/Mosque-in-Jacksonville-Fla-firebombed/UPI-85931273693653/

http://www.khou.com/story/local/2015/11/06/11480214/

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/13/arson-eyed-in-houston-area-mosque-torching.html

Sometimes they don't even wait for the mosque to be built. In Murfreesboro they set fire to the equipment being used to build it.

As for protests:

http://www.news4jax.com/news/G-ville-Church-Protests-Islamic-Center/1996536
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/3...x-mosque-for-islam-protests-as-police-keep-2/



Here is the difference. Observant Muslims won't have anything to do with serving beer to anyone. Christians want to make their living baking cakes for some people and not others. The first is following their religion. The second is discrimination.

.

It was a brief case, not a black box.



No one is faulting them for checking out the brief case. It is when they arrested the kid, knowing he had no bomb that they did wrong.

I see you spewing all the hatred and spreading all the lies against Muslims that Evangelicals have done against Mormons. Good job! You just lost my sympathy.

Christian Bishops toasting Saddam!! What evidence of this have you Susan???

 

[smaneck]

Christian Bishops toasting Saddam!! What evidence of this have you Susan???

I have it from a theologian who was present on this occasion and told me about it. I might add he was pro-Zionist.
I think I've mentioned before that the Baath Party to which both Saddam and Assad belong was started by an Arab Christian.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

Gees you've been fed a lot of misinformation.

No, I haven't - it's actually you who have been fed a lot of misinformation, both from your religion and from US propaganda.

The Mormons never started a war they were only protecting themselves and sometimes they over reacted.

That's a laugh. Here is a link to your profit's declaration of war on the United States of America:
http://www.truthandgrace.com/1857BYDeclaration0915.htm

The Mormons instigated trouble by threatening federal judges and by killing Americans (Christian Americans) who were passing through Utah territory (Mountain Meadows Massacre). Then Brigham Young makes this brazen declaration of war against the United States and starts a jihad, a religious war. Overreacted? That's a vast understatement. And their reaction is to what? To the US sending the army into a US territory where the Mormons had gone mad and were killing innocents and threatening absolutely any agent of the Federal government... As if the US did something wrong???

That's just crazy, violent, fanatical behavior, and Mormons today still demonstrate that kind of behavior against the US government. Look at the polygamous Mormons and those crazy ranchers in Nevada who are always breaking this nation's laws and then fighting the government when the government goes after them to rightfully punish them.

And again we ex our 'secret combinations'.

I have no idea what this means or what you're trying to say here.

They can't seem to do something like that in Islam. I haven't seen anyone stand up and say if you put a bomb on a Russian plane killing 224 people you will go to hell. If some Islamic cleric is doing it he can't be making much noise. I listen to the news all day long and I haven't heard a thing. When those planes ran into our towers many (not all) Islamic people cheered.

Just because you listen to propagandist news sources doesn't mean that Muslims and Muslim groups haven't profusely condemned the terrorism that propagated 9/11 and other terrorist events. Maybe you need better "news" sources.
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

What I can't find anywhere on the internet, however, are profuse apologies from the Mormons for their anti-American attacks and abuse and their role in breaking this nation's laws. How am I to trust mormons, like you?

I think what hit me is Loves attempt to claim persecution here in the US when no one is burning down their Mosque or even protesting in front of them. They get some occasional vandalism but so does everyone else, I know we do. If you look up Catholic churches vandalized you'll see there's quite a bit of it. They are allowed to say no to delivering beer but Christians can't say no to baking a wedding cake. The boy with the clock should have thought that threw a little harder, of course Americans are going to react to a black box, we've been conditioned for it.

No, it escalated from "some occasional vandalism" to targeted, bigotry-driven violence after 9/11. Just from wiki:

In the aftermath of 9/11, hate crimes against people of Middle-Eastern descent in the country increased from 354 attacks in 2000 to 1,501 attacks in 2001.[224]

Zohreh Assemi, an Iranian American Muslim owner of a nail salon in Locust Valley, New York, was robbed, beaten, and called a "terrorist" in September 2007 in what authorities call a bias crime.[225] Assemi was kicked, sliced with a boxcutter, and had her hand smashed with a hammer. The perpetrators, who forcibly removed $2,000 from the salon and scrawled anti-Muslim slurs on the mirrors, also told Assemi to "get out of town" and that her kind were not "welcomed" in the area. The attack followed two weeks of phone calls in which she was called a "terrorist" and told to "get out of town," friends and family said.[225]

On August 25, 2010, a New York taxi driver was stabbed after a passenger asked if he was Muslim.[226]

December 27, 2012 in New York City 31-year-old Erika Menendez allegedly pushed an Indian immigrant and small businessman named Sunando Sen onto the subway tracks where he was struck and killed by a train. Menendez, who has a long history of mental illness[227][228] and violence,[229] told police: "I pushed a Muslim off the train tracks because I hate Hindus and Muslims… Ever since 2001 when they put down the Twin Towers, I've been beating them up." She has been charged with 2nd degree murder as a hate crime.[230]

ACLU keeps track of Nationwide Anti-Mosque Activity where they have noted at least 50 anti-mosque incidents in the previous 5 years.[231]

As a Christian, native-born US Citizen I trust American Muslims far more than I trust any Mormons.

I would like Love tell us how are we to know whose on which side? Which black box has a bomb in it and which one doesn't?

Why don't you start by telling me which Mormons are on which side? Are you a supporter of polygamists like Brigham Young? Do you support the rancher who is rebelling against the US Government? Or perhaps you support Warren Jeffs and the child molestation that goes on in the polygamist communities, considering that you have no problem with your Mormon university being named after Brigham Young, a notorious polygamist and child abuser?

 

[smaneck]

What I can't find anywhere on the internet, however, are profuse apologies from the Mormons for their anti-American attacks and abuse and their role in breaking this nation's laws. How am I to trust mormons, like you?

And why would we trust you when you have yet to produce your evidence for this statement:

"Joseph Smith declared himself to be another mohammed and mormonism to be a new Islam."

Show us where Joseph Smith says this? I've asked three times now.

 

[smaneck]

No, I haven't - it's actually you who have been fed a lot of misinformation, both from your religion and from US propaganda.

So, where'd you get this information from?

"Joseph Smith declared himself to be another mohammed and mormonism to be a new Islam."

I'm waiting, patiently waiting.

 

[Aidan K]

I have it from a theologian who was present on this occasion and told me about it. I might add he was pro-Zionist.
I think I've mentioned before that the Baath Party to which both Saddam and Assad belong was started by an Arab Christian.

Hearsay then?

 

[smaneck]

Hearsay then?

I'd call it an eyewitness account. I suppose it is hearsay for you though.

What stronger evidence could I have? They didn't have cell phones videoing everything at the time.

 

[Arthra]

So the revelation of these scriptures to their respective prophets isn't all that different.

There are a lot of differences John! There were no seer stones or translations involved with the Qur'an and no "Golden Plates" either.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

There are a lot of differences John! There were no seer stones or translations involved with the Qur'an and no "Golden Plates" either.

Right, which is why I never said that it was "identical". Thanks for stating the obvious, though.

 

[Niblo]

Gees you've been fed a lot of misinformation.

The Mormons never started a war they were only protecting themselves and sometimes they over reacted. And again we ex our 'secret combinations'. They can't seem to do something like that in Islam. I haven't seen anyone stand up and say if you put a bomb on a Russian plane killing 224 people you will go to hell.

The killing of innocent human beings - by whatever means, including the placing of a bomb on their aircraft - is MURDER....worthy of the severest punishment the Exalted can give. As a Muslim I am not permitted to say who will go to hell and who will not. Having said that....I hope they rot there.

 

[Robban]

The killing of innocent human beings - by whatever means, including the placing of a bomb on their aircraft - is MURDER....worthy of the severest punishment the Exalted can give. As a Muslim I am not permitted to say who will go to hell and who will not. Having said that....I hope they rot there.

Has it been confirmed it was a bomb that caused downing of the Russian plane?

 

[Niblo]

Has it been confirmed it was a bomb that caused downing of the Russian plane?

Not yet. According to the BBC, accident investigators are '90%' sure that the 'loud noise' heard on a flight recorder was an explosion caused by a bomb.

 

[Robban]

Not yet. According to the BBC, accident investigators are '90%' sure that the 'loud noise' heard on a flight recorder was an explosion caused by a bomb.

According to investigators doing the investigation,

So far, there was an unusual noise reorded on the blackbox,

as of yet unclear what,

also the spreading of the wreckage indicates an inflight incident,

What? is what they are investigating.

All else is pure speculation,
and that does not help the grieving in any way whatsoever.

As for western medie, well what is there to say.

The Malasyan flight that was brought down over Ukraine,

Big headlines,
"Putin killed my son"

I have a limited Word store so the only Word I can find is,

INSANE