And the best country to live in is ...

[PurpletheHeathen]

Is the surfing as good in Norway as it is in Hawaii or California?

I dunno about Norway, but #2 on the list, Australia, often has better surfing than both.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

I dunno about Norway, but #2 on the list, Australia, often has better surfing than both.

Been to Australia twice, and never got the opportunity to surf there. Would like to for sure, and the people are great.

 

[exotic walrus]

Not true, it matters even if the numbers are small. In fact it's the most important matter and the reason freedom is so worth it all.

Freedom is worth being able to what? Gain wealth? Advance up the social ladder? That isn't why I think freedom is important. Even by comparable standards the US isn't the greatest amongst the developed nations for fixing stratification.

Tell that to our president.

Maybe I should tell it to the majority of the American work force who have seen wages stagnate or decline in the last couple of decades while private wealth shoots through the roof?

No, the number of reach people per capita doesn't affect my quality of life.
]

The number of reach people per capita? I don't know if that makes sense but yes in any event the distribution of wealth throughout the society does directly affect your quality of life so the notion is absurd.

The US has pockets of poverty because of culture within those pockets, not because of lack of social programs.

Oh right pockets of "culture"!

In fact, their pockets of poverty are related to the immigrants which they deny opportunities and social programs too, so that they can support their failing social policies.

You don't seem to understand simple class issues and US domestic poverty so the chances of you having researched "failing social policies" of Scandinavia or the problems of immigration in Western Europe seems kind of unlikely.

 

[Kalevalatar]

You forgot to mention the extra-pretty Norwegian ladies

, Jim.

You know, I so did want to write that not only is Norway blessed with their breathtaking scenery, the Great Outdoors, and the good lifestyle, on top of that the extra-pretty, super-lucky Norwegian ladies are blessed with the Tallest, Darkest and Handsomest Men in the world...

Norway is also using the Euro, which is currently trading at 1.5 times what the US is... when just several years ago it was 1:1, before it was devalued for economic growth by exporting. Within the two countries, the value remains the same... so the overal economic product divided by the population remains the same.

What nonsense.

Let's start with the facts.

Norway is not an Eurozone country. The Norwegian currency is krone.


It might help your argumentation if you familiarized yourself with the basic Norwegian facts for starters.

The US does not have a 99.0% literacy rate. We say "99%" because we have a substantial immigrant population that is from third world countries who don't know how to read. In fact, the US and Norway are several of the many developed nations that no longer take literacy surveys anymore.

More nonsense.

14 Percent of U.S. Adults Can't Read, according to the U.S. Education Department study. A whopping twenty-three percent (23%) of those in the illiterate category are high school graduates, while another whopping fourteen percent (14%), quote, "completed at least some education beyond high school." Oh, and 52% spoke "English only".

Meaning, those 23% spent years in the US school system but never learned to read and write there. They graduated illiterate.

Taking your argument, obviously, Norway does things differently. Not only does Norway make sure to teach their native populace these basic skills, they also teach their immigrant populace to read and write, something the US apparently fails to do on both accounts.

Hence, Norway scores higher in the Human Development Index; Education than the United States of America.

You obviously don't know the US very well.

I have travelled over the United States of America all the way to Alaska as a tourist, thank you very much, and DH and I have lived in several states in the United States of America. Next question, please.

It's unfortunate if it hurts your feelings personally, yet the fact remains. I would pick Norway over the United States of America, you know, "any day", "hands down". Doesn't make the United States of America the worst of the worst country to live in, of course: just means that Norway is pretty much unbeatable.

 

[FrenchAffair]

the guy said he would rather live in china than texas. how foolish a thing is that to say?

I rather live in China than Texas as well. The amount of racism and discrimination in the US south is scary as are the fundamentalists and extremists. The sky high crime rates and low quality of life don't attract me either.

 

[jayem]

The US is my birthplace, and I feel an attachment here. But I love Canada, which in a lot of ways is more civilized than the US. Vancouver is world class. Clean, safe, cultured, sophisticated, and stunningly beautiful. My favorite city in the world, and I'd give serious thought to moving there. If I could afford to live the way I'd like.

 

[rambot]

people come from everywhere in the world to the us, pennyless, and get filth rich. get a grip.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

The US is my birthplace, and I feel an attachment here. But I love Canada, which in a lot of ways is more civilized than the US. Vancouver is world class. Clean, safe, cultured, sophisticated, and stunningly beautiful. My favorite city in the world, and I'd give serious thought to moving there. If I could afford to live the way I'd like.

I've heard Vancouver is very nice, but maybe you should try Sydney - it's just as nice but a lot warmer

 

[PurpletheHeathen]

I've heard Vancouver is very nice, but maybe you should try Sydney - it's just as nice but a lot warmer

Who said warm was a good thing?

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Norway is not an Eurozone country. The Norwegian currency is krone.


It might help your argumentation if you familiarized yourself with the basic Norwegian facts for starters.

I forgot that Norway didn't switch to the Euro (you'll have to forgive me for not remember what currency less than 1/1000th of the world's population uses. The point remains the same regardless of the currency.

More nonsense.

14 Percent of U.S. Adults Can't Read, according to the U.S. Education Department study. A whopping twenty-three percent (23%) of those in the illiterate category are high school graduates, while another whopping fourteen percent (14%), quote, "completed at least some education beyond high school." Oh, and 52% spoke "English only".

Meaning, those 23% spent years in the US school system but never learned to read and write there. They graduated illiterate.

What are you calling nonsense, exactly? 1) That the US and Norway don't take surveys anymore, because they don't. Are you now referring to an obscure article to argue that the US literacy rate is 86%, when all international sources show >99%?

I work with the people of some of the most rural, poor parts of the United States. I have volunteered with tutoring adults... I can tell you that the literacy rate is >99%.

Taking your argument, obviously, Norway does things differently. Not only does Norway make sure to teach their native populace these basic skills, they also teach their immigrant populace to read and write, something the US apparently fails to do on both accounts.

Actually, the US does that very much. I wish you'd familiarize yourself with the social programs of the United States before commenting.

Hence, Norway scores higher in the Human Development Index; Education than the United States of America.[/qupte]

I wish you would actually read up on the index instead of just making claims you'd like to be true. That is not where the US falls beyond Norway. The US lags behind because of income differences... which have nothing to do with quality of life.

I have travelled over the United States of America all the way to Alaska as a tourist, thank you very much, and DH and I have lived in several states in the United States of America. Next question, please.

Having been to the US doesn't make a statement that is simply false, true. You indicated that only a certain upper crust enjoys a good quality of life, which is entirely untrue. You would have to pretty well ignore the majority of the American population to make such a statement.

It's unfortunate if it hurts your feelings personally, yet the fact remains. I would pick Norway over the United States of America, you know, "any day", "hands down". Doesn't make the United States of America the worst of the worst country to live in, of course: just means that Norway is pretty much unbeatable.

Do you want to discuss this or just make ad hominem remarks? My feelings have nothing to do with the matter. Go back to my original post- I answered someone's question on why some socialist nations were doing well in the index. I explained that the index sees income differences as negative. I have no particular attachment to the United States, it could fall apart for all I care. There are other cultures I identity with over American- but my values and preferences have nothing to do with the topic...

What I do take issue with are subjective ranking systems on an issue that is by nature subjective. There is no 'objective high quality of life', especially when it is put together primarily by westerners.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Oh right pockets of "culture"!

Yes, pockets of poverty in the US which have cultural values that do not place a high value on education and income. These places value thing like community, family and continuing the work that their ancestors had done. The young people of these areas want to continue to live in areas without much opportunity, rather than going off to college to get a high paying job in another area away from everything that is familiar to them.

You don't seem to understand simple class issues and US domestic poverty

I would say that I have seen and experienced a lot more than you have.

Maybe I should tell it to the majority of the American work force who have seen wages stagnate or decline in the last couple of decades while private wealth shoots through the roof?

Wages have continued to increase. That was one of the contributing factors of the housing bust that hurt our economy- people were putting money into houses, raising their values far more than what was reasonable.
For example, just the minimum wage over the last two decades has gone from: 3.35 (1989) -> 5.15 (1999) -> 7.25 (2009)

 

[exotic walrus]

Wages have continued to increase. That was one of the contributing factors of the housing bust that hurt our economy- people were putting money into houses, raising their values far more than what was reasonable.
For example, just the minimum wage over the last two decades has gone from: 3.35 (1989) -> 5.15 (1999) -> 7.25 (2009)

For unskilled labour - about 75% of the workforce - wages have stagnated or declined. There are several good studies on this.

 

[Kalevalatar]

The point remains the same regardless of the currency.

Quite right. The point remains the same: zero (0).

Are you now referring to an obscure article to argue that the US literacy rate is 86%, when all international sources show >99%?

I'm referring to the U.S. Education Department study, with a national sample representative of 222,400,000 American adults, of whom​

a whopping twenty-three percent (23%) in the illiterate category are high school graduates, while another whopping fourteen percent (14%), quote, "completed at least some education beyond high school," and of whom 52% spoke "English only".

I work with the people of some of the most rural, poor parts of the United States. I have volunteered with tutoring adults... I can tell you that the literacy rate is >99%.

Anecdotal. The U.S. Education Department study conclusions say something else entirely. I'll take an official Department of Education study over your word here.

I know a lot more Nordics than I know North Americans, yet I have never in my 40+ years met an illiterate adult Nordic person. I do however personally know two North Americans who can basically scribble no more than their own name. Both of them went to school but somehow managed to surf the system without learning these basic skills. Coming from the privileged Nordic countries, I was shocked to learn that rich first world countries did and could have illiterate citizens. We tend to take the ability to read and write granted.

Actually, the US does that very much. I wish you'd familiarize yourself with the social programs of the United States before commenting.

That I did. According to the US Department of Education recent study, twenty-three percent (23%) in the illiterate category are high school graduates, while another fourteen percent (14%) even went to complete further education beyond high school.

In other words, these people spent years in the US school systems but never learned the basic skills of reading and writing. That indicates a major faillure for the US education systems.

I wish you would actually read up on the index instead of just making claims you'd like to be true. That is not where the US falls beyond Norway. The US lags behind because of income differences... which have nothing to do with quality of life.

I wish you would take your own advice and familiarize yourself with the OP report.

Human Development Report 2009
H Human development index 2007 and its components
Education index

Sources :
calculated based on data on adult literacy rates and gross enrolment ratios.

1Norway0.989
2Australia0.993
3Iceland0.980
4Canada0.991
5Ireland0.985
6Netherlands0.985
7Sweden0.974
8France0.978
9Switzerland0.936
10Japan0.949
11Luxembourg0.975
12Finland0.993
13United States0.968

Having been to the US doesn't make a statement that is simply false, true. You indicated that only a certain upper crust enjoys a good quality of life, which is entirely untrue.

Norway, however, does offer the best quality life to all Norwegians, not just for the priveleged upper crust.

I very much doubt that, say, the Russians have "good quality of life" across the board, totally regardless of their income level. That was certainly not my impression the last time I visited St. Petersburg.

Human Development Report 2009
M Economy and inequality
Ratio of the richest 10% to the poorest 10%

1Norway6.1
2Australia12.5
3Iceland..
4Canada9.4
5Ireland9.4
6Netherlands9.2
7Sweden6.2
8France9.1
9Switzerland9.0
10Japan4.5
11Luxembourg6.8
12Finland5.6
13United States15.9

71Russian Federation11.0
75Brazil40.6
112Honduras59.4

 

[Kalevalatar]

The US is my birthplace, and I feel an attachment here. But I love Canada, which in a lot of ways is more civilized than the US. Vancouver is world class. Clean, safe, cultured, sophisticated, and stunningly beautiful. My favorite city in the world, and I'd give serious thought to moving there. If I could afford to live the way I'd like.

Just how many times in a row has Vancouver earned the top honor of the Economist Intelligence Unit's liveability rankings?

 

[wpiman2]

Quite right. The point remains the same: zero (0).

I'm referring to the U.S. Education Department study, with a national sample representative of 222,400,000 American adults, of whom​

a whopping twenty-three percent (23%) in the illiterate category are high school graduates, while another whopping fourteen percent (14%), quote, "completed at least some education beyond high school," and of whom 52% spoke "English only".



Anecdotal. The U.S. Education Department study conclusions say something else entirely. I'll take an official Department of Education study over your word here.

I know a lot more Nordics than I know North Americans, yet I have never in my 40+ years met an illiterate adult Nordic person. I do however personally know two North Americans who can basically scribble no more than their own name. Both of them went to school but somehow managed to surf the system without learning these basic skills. Coming from the privileged Nordic countries, I was shocked to learn that rich first world countries did and could have illiterate citizens. We tend to take the ability to read and write granted.

That I did. According to the US Department of Education recent study, twenty-three percent (23%) in the illiterate category are high school graduates, while another fourteen percent (14%) even went to complete further education beyond high school.

In other words, these people spent years in the US school systems but never learned the basic skills of reading and writing. That indicates a major faillure for the US education systems.

I wish you would take your own advice and familiarize yourself with the OP report.

Norway, however, does offer the best quality life to all Norwegians, not just for the priveleged upper crust.

I very much doubt that, say, the Russians have "good quality of life" across the board, totally regardless of their income level. That was certainly not my impression the last time I visited St. Petersburg.

Department of Education skews statistics to show higher rates of illiteracy because, surprise surprise, they tend to get more money to tackle the illusory "illiteracy problem". You can easily raise illiteracy rates by making the literacy bar extremely high. There is not a definite line between being literate and being illiterate; if I can read Le Petite Prince in French doesn't make me literate in that language.

A better and less partial view is in the CIA fact book. 99% literacy rate for the US; 100% for Norway.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2103.html

 

[Mahammad]

The best education system in the world is the Finnish, I don't know how life is there but I had many internet friends from Finland and I felt that they are the most intelligent people of Europe, they are the ones who taught me to correct my spelling of English words when I thought my spelling is correct.

I also studied world’s education systems and discovered the reason why Finnish people are smart because of there education system

 

[Tenka]

wow, 3 Australian cities in the top 10?

I also studied world’s education systems and discovered the reason why Finnish people are smart because of there education system

"Their" t

 

[Supreme]

I'd say the best education in the world is in the United Kingdom- with three world class universities, Cambridge, Oxford and Kings College, that recieve millions of applicants around the world every year.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Department of Education skews statistics to show higher rates of illiteracy because, surprise surprise, they tend to get more money to tackle the illusory "illiteracy problem".

On the contrary. The Dep. of Education plays down the illiteracy rates in order to justify their existence & funding. The actual rates are even worse.

The best education system in the world is the Finnish, I don't know how life is there but I had many internet friends from Finland and I felt that they are the most intelligent people of Europe, they are the ones who taught me to correct my spelling of English words when I thought my spelling is correct.

I also studied world’s education systems and discovered the reason why Finnish people are smart because of there education system

Small nations cannot compete with quantity: hence, the Finns compete with quality.

wow, 3 Australian cities in the top 10?

Yeah, but Helsinki?? Better than Sydney?!? Please. That has to be a mistake. Seriously. Helsinki is bland, windy, and boooooring-to-tears.

 

[wpiman2]

I'd say the best education in the world is in the United Kingdom- with three world class universities, Cambridge, Oxford and Kings College, that recieve millions of applicants around the world every year.

Wow; lumping in King's College with Oxford and Cambridge- eh?

I went to King's for a bit and to Imperial-- I thought Imperial was more cache than Kings-- but I don't know much about the English system.