An open letter to the church from a millennial – this is why we are leaving

[rjs330]

On judging other believers

No, what I wrote you was not to associate with anyone who is supposedly a brother but who also engages in sexual immorality, is greedy, worships idols, is abusive, gets drunk or steals. With such a person you shouldn’t even eat!For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Isn’t it those who are part of the community that you should be judging?God will judge those who are outside. Just expel the evildoer from among yourselves. - 1 Corinthians 5:11-13

 

[rjs330]

I am certain that neither you, nor Christians in general, have expertise into knowing what those consequences are.

I have no special "expertise", but I do have the Bible which is all truth.

I don't expect you to believe it or understand it. For the natural man is in emnity with God and cannot comprehend or understand spiritual things. It doesn't do me or other to try and explain the deep things if God with the unbeliever.

Except to say that no one will see God unless they are born again. You must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior to be able to understand or accept the things of God. It all starts there with your understanding that you need a savior. Without that there is nothing more to explain.

 

[rjs330]

If you look closely at this letter we see a tragic example of carnal beliefs. A carnal belief is a belief that is based upon feelings, emotions, philosophy that is personal rather than scriptural.

 

[SkyWriting]

Sin is decided by God, not by us. If God says it is sin, then it's sin. If God doesn't say it's sin, then it's between us and God. God says, lying is a sin. I don't get to decide if it is or isn't. God doesn't say a thing about painted fingernails being sinful. Then that's between me and God. Others DO get to tell you if you are sinning. And the church can excommunicate you if you do.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

New International Version
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

So, sin is up to you to decide.

You or the church judging others is a different matter:

Matthew 7
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6
37 “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

John 7
24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

James 4
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

 

[Lazarus Long]

Sin is decided by God, not by us.

It would seem that sin is decided by the ignorant savages who wrote the stories in the bible, if we are being honest.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have no special "expertise", but I do have the Bible which is all truth.

I don't expect you to believe it or understand it. For the natural man is in emnity with God and cannot comprehend or understand spiritual things. It doesn't do me or other to try and explain the deep things if God with the unbeliever.

Don't attack my character. I don't appreciate it, and all it can do is convince me that Christians are deeply unethical people who cannot honestly engage with others with whom they disagree.

FWIW, I am quite familiar with the Bible. I have probably read it more than the vast majority of Christians. My beliefs still stand. I see no evidence the Bible is anything but a human inspired, human written document.

Except to say that no one will see God unless they are born again. You must accept Christ as your Lord and Savior to be able to understand or accept the things of God.

Been there, done that.

It all starts there with your understanding that you need a savior. Without that there is nothing more to explain.

I don't need a savior. I thought I did but years in therapy made me capable of loving myself without dealing with the psychotic and schizohprenic image of God that Christians struggle with.

 

[Chrystal-J]

With that perspective, I can see why you don't get anything out of the bible.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

BTW, the correct thing to do with hurting people is to do what Jesus did, to journey with them and serve them (as he served the disciples). Not to blame them or tell them they just need more asceticism in their life. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote, to be a Christian, a follower of Jesus, in the modern world, means to share in others suffering. That means Christians need real compassion for other people, not mere platitudes, slogans, or empty rhetoric.

Jesus did two things, not just one. He loved and forgave them - AND he told them to go and sin no more. You can't do only the first.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I don't need a savior. I thought I did but years in therapy made me capable of loving myself without dealing with the psychotic and schizohprenic image of God that Christians struggle with.

Yes, you do. But you can instead pay for years of fruitless therapy, I suppose. Your choice. The deliverance of the Lord is FREE, and lasting.

I don't know what you heard, but Jesus is neither psychotic or schizophrenic.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Your dismissive reaction is proof enough of the toxicity I am speaking of.

Institutions must be accountable to actual human beings, including the wider society. This is not the middle ages and Christians are not entitled to do heinous things without criticism.

No, Christians aren't entitled to do "heinous" things, nor are they doing so. Heinous things are also crimes.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Knowledge of the Bible is a dangerous thing indeed. I participated in Bible studies every day for several years when I was hanging out with Episcopalians, so the content of the Bible is familiar to me. And yeah, the Bible doesn't say what the religious establishment in the US says it does, for the most part.

You missed some stuff.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Bashing social justice does nothing to commend your religion to me. In fact, it does the opposite. My friends and family all benefit from such movements, why would I betray them? I am a person of more integrity than that.

Social justice as an outreach of faith is good, and everyone who is a serious follower of Jesus does it - gives to the poor, helps people out, speaks truth.

Social justice as virtue signaling one's moral superiority over "those who aren't as enlightened as we" is a useless exercise in futility. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

People like this woman, Cheri Ann Maples:

Cheri Maples - Wikipedia

She was a member of a religious organization I had contacts with in the past, where I studied Buddhist meditation. Cheri touched many lives as a police chief and a Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher). She approached her death with so much serenity and gratitude, and I find her life inspiring. She was also a lesbian, and its doubtful she would have found in a church the level of acceptance and support she did through studying the Dharma under Thich Nhat Hanh. People like that help make this world a better place in small ways, and those people will get my devotion as spiritual teachers.

You cite multiple instances you find distasteful of nonconformance of scripture to LGBT beliefs in your initial post, and now cite this woman as a spiritual teacher to follow.

It's pretty clear what your beef with the Church is.

 

[Beanieboy]

Jesus did two things, not just one. He loved and forgave them - AND he told them to go and sin no more. You can't do only the first.

I've never understood why Christians say this all the time.

If you have a friend and you discovered he lied, after a while of asking forgiveness, you forgive. Will your friend run out and lie again, knowing you will forgive him?

The woman caught in adultery, after almost being stoned to death, isn't going to run back to her lover.

It's kind of a given, a "don't do it again" thing.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Yes, you do. But you can instead pay for years of fruitless therapy, I suppose. Your choice. The deliverance of the Lord is FREE, and lasting.

I don't know what you heard, but Jesus is neither psychotic or schizophrenic.

Hmm. Let's compare the OT Yahweh with the NT Jesus, allegedly the same god, see any difference? Is that difference indicative of psychosis or schizophrenia or both or perhaps something different?

 

[Lazarus Long]

Social justice as virtue signaling one's moral superiority over "those who aren't as enlightened as we" is a useless exercise in futility.

So why is it that so many christians are guilty of it?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

So why is it that so many christians are guilty of it?

I can't answer that. It's stupid when anyone does it, and it definitely comes from all sides. Just speak truth and let God do the rest.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Hmm. Let's compare the OT Yahweh with the NT Jesus, allegedly the same god, see any difference? Is that difference indicative of psychosis or schizophrenia or both or perhaps something different?

Same God. Different Covenant, access, and perspective.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Same God. Different Covenant, access, and perspective.

One god with two diametrically opposed behaviours means what mentally.