~Anastasia~
† Handmaid of God †
- Dec 1, 2013
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Oh ok. Still, if you think it's good ...no, just in a practical experiential sense
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Oh ok. Still, if you think it's good ...no, just in a practical experiential sense
Kylissa, You might find it here: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/healingpresence/the_power_of_the_nameOh ok. Still, if you think it's good ...
I hope he's able to complete the interview.Just received an initial response from Dr. Rossi. He says he is interested in doing an interview. He said, word for word, " I certainly believe that Orthodoxy and biological evolution are compatible."
Kylissa, You might find it here: http://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/healingpresence/the_power_of_the_name
This sort of spiritual practice is not necessarily good for everyone, however. I think that I can offer an understandable explanation as to why this is so. It has to do with the degree to which one is ill. We are all ill to an extent, depending upon the severity of psychological trauma we have suffered. Oftentimes the very defenses that were erected and fortified within our psyches to enable us to survive such traumas become "hardwired" neuronal circuits in which we are stuck as if in an unbreakable loop. In such cases, the sort of psychic activity prescribed in hesychasm becomes either impossible for the person to succeed in, which could easily lead to despair, or else it can break huge holes in the dam of the persons defenses, letting the very horrifying emotions that created the need for the defenses to be erected in the first place come through and re-traumatize the person in such a way that the latter state of the person is even worse than the former. This, I think, is why spiritual fathers usually insist upon the practice being done only under the careful supervision of a spiritually discerned guide. We see striking similarities to this in the modern psychotherapy setting, where hesychasm is practiced under the name of "mindfulness" (see, for instance, the practices of Dr. Daniel J. Siegel). In this setting a person seeking psychotherapuetic treatment for specific emotional disturbances is trained in the practice of mindfulness (or Silence), under the regular and frequent watchfulness of their doctor. Such doctors are usually aware of potential risks associated with this practice and use it only when the patient is well enough to benefit from it. Until then they may use other methods of treatment.
i still love Dr. Rossi anywaysJust received an initial response from Dr. Rossi. He says he is interested in doing an interview. He said, word for word, " I certainly believe that Orthodoxy and biological evolution are compatible."
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if none of the priests you identified would be inclined to participate. I spoke with a fairly well known hieromonk theologian (someone not on your list, though) once about the topic. I don't recall his exact words, but they were along the line that the evolution debate is a huge distraction that takes our attention away from the real messages of Genesis: that God created us in His image and likeness; that man was responsible for his own fall through pride; etc. Although he is invited to speak in many, many different venues - Orthodox and non-Orthodox - he always declines to participate in anything having to do with evolution debates. I think we see this in CF. How many threads are running about evolution and how many are discussing the deeper spiritual truths behind the creation story. A misunderstanding of the nature of the fall is part of the foundation of penal substitutionary atonement.
That having been said, I did like a comment Fr. Pat made once: He said it's true, that chimpanzees and humans have 95% of their DNA in common, but that even a banana has 50% in common.
Maybe not for Adam and Eve, at first, but St. Gregory of Nyssa was willing to admit that corruption and death belonged to the natural order prior to man's "missing of the mark".those deeper spiritual meanings are precisely at risk. evolution makes them totally separate from the actual historical experience of man and makes them only stories from texts. yah, we should know about the fall -- because there actually WAS a fall. the world wasn't always wallowing in corruption and death.
well, it always depends on what is being meant by "nature" -- all things are "naturally" corrupt in the sense that our bodies and souls, in and of themselves, do not possess life -- only God possesses life by virtue of Who/What He is. but then again, all things are "naturally" incorrupt in the sense that we were made to be vessels of grace -- our natural mode of life is to be sustained in grace against corruption. and then again, we are "naturally" neither incorrupt or corrupt, as St. Theophilus of Antioch says, for to be naturally incorrupt makes us equal to God, and to be naturally corrupt makes God the author of death.
and of course there is a difference between man and animals -- man communes directly with God which sustains him in incorruption, but animals are sustained through man acting as a mediator between God and the world. in this sense we could speak of man as naturally immortal/dispassionate, but animals naturally mortal/passionate, while maintaining that their natural mortality was withheld until the sin of man. This is how St. Athanasius puts it, actually.
but all that aside, to make an exception for Adam and Eve is already to depart from the scientific consensus -- just not as boldly as do the "creationists!"
This is a terrific article. A part of the article does, however, raise some important questions for me concerning the differences that allegedly exist between EO hesychasm and far Eastern meditation and yoga. I suspect there is slightly more in common between these practices than is admitted. I'm still investigating these things and its really only my problem. Anyway,thanks for the link.Btw, regarding Dr. Rossi and the Jesus Prayer, I especially like the article here at SVOTS. It's a very good overview, IMO, touching on relevant points relating to saying the prayer, with a nice little summary of each. I think I will print it out and keep it with related books. Thanks again for mentioning it!
You're welcome. I'm glad for the discussion of Dr. Rossi here, so I'm back listening to his podcasts and I found the article.This is a terrific article. A part of the article does, however, raise some important questions for me concerning the differences that allegedly exist between EO hesychasm and far Eastern meditation and yoga. I suspect there is slightly more in common between these practices than is admitted. I'm still investigating these things and its really only my problem. Anyway,thanks for the link.
and of course there is a difference between man and animals -- man communes directly with God which sustains him in incorruption, but animals are sustained through man acting as a mediator between God and the world. in this sense we could speak of man as naturally immortal/dispassionate, but animals naturally mortal/passionate, while maintaining that their natural mortality was withheld until the sin of man. This is how St. Athanasius puts it, actually.
You're welcome. I'm glad for the discussion of Dr. Rossi here, so I'm back listening to his podcasts and I found the article.
Would you be interested in talking about the similarities/differences between Eastern meditation and hesychasm? In another thread, I mean?
One of my instructors at university was very well-regarded in his field and very interested in Eastern practices. He actually took 6 months a year off to travel and involve himself in such things. I attached myself to him and was under his training for some time in Eastern meditation - and I do maintain that I gained some benefit from it. Certain things have stayed with me all these years. A couple of years later I returned to Christianity and happened to find myself with books from mystics and monks that were essentially in some cases hesychastic, and being rather ignorant, set off on practicing this as well. Again I got some benefit ... but ... I became extremely aware of some of the dangers as well. It really wasn't until this year when I finally read far enough into Orthodoxy to understand what I'd done, and realized to my chagrin that Father's strongest warning - NOT to engage in ANY sort of hesychasm without proper guidance - was something I'd broken 20 years before I heard his instructions. The way he explained hesychasm to us during our catechism classes, I didn't recognize that - I thought it involved ONLY a narrow slice of practices.
I've thought about it some since then, and I agree that there is in fact a great deal of overlap between the practices of Eastern meditation and hesychasm, as I understand it. (I can't really comment on yoga.)
Btw, True, I started a thread here.I would like to engage in discussion on this topic. I'm only experienced in the practice of the Church. I don't feel the need to practice anything other than what I know is beneficial, but because of various descriptions of meditation and yoga I've come across in my academic meanderings, I'm not very convinced by the altogether negative attitudes toward these practices on the part of many EO Churchmen. As I said, I think their are things that are being overlooked.