An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

[Soyeong]

I was just sharing my opinion. Feel free to disagree. However, liberty is more than what you say it is. See Galatians 5.

The point of a discussion forum is to share our opinions and discuss where we agree or disagree. Galatians 5 is in complete accordance with what I said.

 

[Extraneous]

The point of a discussion forum is to share our opinions and discuss where we agree or disagree. Galatians 5 is in complete accordance with what I said.

I understand Sabbath law to be fulfilled through the spirit, rather than the OT Sabbath law. I don't see how Galatians 5 would promote keeping the Sabbath according to OT Sabbath Law. The seventh day of rest is fulfilled not by resting on the Sabbath day, but by finding our rest in the spirit, and that's what Hebrews teaches us.

The Jews gathered manna for 6 days and rested the seventh. (Exodus 16) Christ said that He is the real bread from Heaven, and he said we will not need to go hungry again. (John 6). We don't gather bread from heaven (Christ) for 6 days and then rest on the seventh do we? How do we gather enough bread from Heaven for 6 days so we can rest on the seventh?

Why does Hebrews say that the Sabbath rest which was commanded in the OT didn't actually give anyone rest? Why does it say that there is still a Sabbath rest, which is different than the OT rest? Why also does it say that this day of rest is "today"?

Isn't this rest actually referring to following the spirit, and resting in the spirit as well, instead of following the OT Sabbath law? Now look at Galatians 5. It says we are free from the law. It teaches us to instead walk in the spirit. It teaches us to do this by sowing to the spirit instead of the flesh. The NT teaches us what the works of flesh are, and the rest of the NT goes in a bit more detail, giving us a more complete picture, and Galatians 5 also teaches us what the fruit of the spirit is. No where in those things do we find observing of any holy day whatsoever. Its about being set free from the OT law with all its requirements, not just the sacrificial laws but all laws, and its instead about sowing to the spirit instead of the flesh. Its really just that simple.

 

[Extraneous]

Remember also that Christ did say that he would give us rest. Christ is both bread from heaven, our rest, and our teacher. He is all things to us. Its about the spirit, which is the New covenant promise that God promised in Jeremiah and in Isaiah.

 

[mmksparbud]

The 4th commandment says nothing about gathering manna for 6 days--

(Exo 20:8 JPS) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

(Exo 20:9 JPS) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work;

(Exo 20:10 JPS) but the seventh day is a sabbath unto the LORD thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates;

(Exo 20:11 JPS) for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This is the commandment---just as abiding as thou shalt not murder, steal, covet---the only commandment of the 9 that anyone has really any trouble in obeying. and everyone wants to forget, is the only one that says "Remember."
This one command is given with a reason why we should keep it-- "for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
The only other one that offers a reason for obeying it is the command against graven images-- "thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,"
Those 2 commands--the only ones giving a reason to keep them, are the only ones that people really object to. The others can all be kept just out of an automatic response to the spirit of their love of God and man, these 2 God commands for His own reasons.

 

[mmksparbud]

It would not start a schism for you; you are not in communion with us, so its rather a non-issue.

It is even more of a non-issue by virtue of the fact that contrary to the alleged prophecy of Ellen G. White, there is precosely zero chance of it happening in our lifetimes, given that Islam is on track to displace Christianity as the world's largest religion, and favours Friday worship.

Christians are already being persecuted even in Western nations for worshipping on Sunday (the abolition of "blue laws" or Sunday trading laws is making it progressively more difficult for Christians to avoid work on the Lord's Day, whereas Saturday enjoys more protection owing to the social objections to anto-Semitism)'which is why I find the insistence of some Adventists of impending persecution for Saturday worship to be rather offensive.

Not to mention the fact that a ban on Saturday worship would seriously adversely impact the Roman Catholic Church, which you allege is behind this anti-Sabbatarian conspiracy, given that several of the most important RC worship services happen on Saturday: Holy Saturday, and the vigils of Pentecost, Trinity Sunday and Corpus Christie. Oh, and, by the way, since at least Vatican II, the Roman Church has allowed for members to fulfill their Sunday mass obligation at a vesperal mass on Saturday (the Orthodox do not have a mass obligation; my church requires members to go to the Eucharist and confess a minimum of one time each year).

History has a way of changing very, very quickly.

 

[Extraneous]

The 4th commandment says nothing about gathering manna for 6 days--

(Exo 20:8 JPS) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

(Exo 20:9 JPS) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work;

(Exo 20:10 JPS) but the seventh day is a sabbath unto the LORD thy God, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates;

(Exo 20:11 JPS) for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This is the commandment---just as abiding as thou shalt not murder, steal, covet---the only commandment of the 9 that anyone has really any trouble in obeying. and everyone wants to forget, is the only one that says "Remember."
This one command is given with a reason why we should keep it-- "for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day; wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."
The only other one that offers a reason for obeying it is the command against graven images-- "thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,"
Those 2 commands--the only ones giving a reason to keep them, are the only ones that people really object to. The others can all be kept just out of an automatic response to the spirit of their love of God and man, these 2 God commands for His own reasons.

I know that, but Christ said he was the manna from heaven (John 6.) Look at how the Jews gathered the manna in Exodus 16. I guess for me personally its telling, but maybe only me. I noticed that Paul also refers to Exodus 16 and the story about manna. He teaches it when he refers to giving. Its goes well with acts 4 and how they had all things in common, in my opinion. It all ties in so beautifully with the spirit. For me its a wonderful tip of a great Rock that im only beginning to see.

 

[mmksparbud]

I know that, but Christ said he was the manna from heaven (John 6.) Look at how the Jews gathered the manna in Exodus 16. I guess for me personally its telling, but maybe only me. I noticed that Paul also refers to Exodus 16 and the story about manna. He teaches it when he refers to giving. Its goes well with acts 4 and how they had all things in common, in my opinion. It all ties in so beautifully with the spirit. For me its a wonderful tip of a great Rock that im only beginning to see.

It still all boils down to God expressly commands it be remembered and kept as He commands it be kept--doesn't mention manna---manna is a beautiful story--but the gathering of the manna for 6 days and none on the 7th day is not what the command was---it was to abstain from work and to remember the 7th day as God gives it as a reminder of His creation of this world---a reminder that He is the one and only creator. That is His stated reason for keeping it, and I see no reason to contradict Him. It matters diddly-squat to me what day is kept--could care less---who it does matter to is God---and I, for one, will not argue with Him.

 

[Extraneous]

It still all boils down to God expressly commands it be remembered and kept as He commands it be kept--doesn't mention manna---manna is a beautiful story--but the gathering of the manna for 6 days and none on the 7th day is not what the command was---it was to abstain from work and to remember the 7th day as God gives it as a reminder of His creation of this world---a reminder that He is the one and only creator. That is His stated reason for keeping it, and I see no reason to contradict Him. It matters diddly-squat to me what day is kept--could care less---who it does matter to is God---and I, for one, will not argue with Him.

True, the 4th C doesn't mention manna. However Hebrews 4 does say that the Sabbath rest which God has given to us in the NC is "today". If thats not telling than nothing is. Cant you see that the OT Sabbath is only a shadow, pointing to Christ? You can observe OT Sabbath law if you wish, but it seems much like trying to observe OT sacrificial laws, while also embracing the cross at the same time. It just doesnt make sense.

 

[mmksparbud]

Can you not see that it changes nothing about the 4th commandment?? It is still a command from God for His own reasons---not ours. He commands, not us, He states His reason for it, He says how. It is about Him--what He wants. Not us. Cain thought he could worship his way, not God's way. Didn't work out too well for him. This is not about sacrificial laws and old covenants--this is about doing what God says---no, what God "COMMANDS"--Remember and keep.

 

[Extraneous]

How much more holy can we keep the Sabbath, than by resting in Christ? It doesnt get any more holy than that. We dont rest one day of the week however, but every day. Romans 14 says that some people observe everyday alike.


Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


Matthew 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”


Hebrews 4:10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike.

 

[Extraneous]

Can you not see that it changes nothing about the 4th commandment?? It is still a command from God for His own reasons---not ours. He commands, not us, He states His reason for it, He says how. It is about Him--what He wants. Not us. Cain thought he could worship his way, not God's way. Didn't work out too well for him. This is not about sacrificial laws and old covenants--this is about doing what God says---no, what God "COMMANDS"--Remember and keep.

OT sacrificial sin atonement laws are Gods command as well. Can you see that sister? Yet we dont observe those do we?

 

[Extraneous]

OT Sabbath was for the old man. We are new however. Our Sabbath rest is given by Christ. That's the way i see it. Don't you ever wonder why none of the apostles ever commanded us to observe Sabbath? Christ told them to teach us to observe all things.

 

[mmksparbud]

Because He specifically said those are no longer valid because of His sacrifice--He never said the 10 Commandments of God--written by His own finger on stone--no longer are. The 10 commandments are not part of the sacrificial system. No matter what this is still true of the unrepentant.

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Extraneous]

Because He specifically said those are no longer valid because of His sacrifice--He never said the 10 Commandments of God--written by His own finger on stone--no longer are. The 10 commandments are not part of the sacrificial system. No matter what this is still true of the unrepentant.

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Yes God did say that, through the apostles, just as he also said the sin atonement laws were obsolete as well.. He said it in through His apostles, who were commissioned to teach us all things, those apostles said it in Hebrews 4. The reason he didn't say it in the Gentile Churches is because they were never given the Sabbath command in the first place. WE still keep the sabbath holy, only its done by accepting Gods grace. Thats our rest.

 

[mmksparbud]

the 10 commandments are not the sin atonement laws.

 

[Extraneous]

the 10 commandments are not the sin atonement laws.

Yet for some reason, Hebrews mentioned the Sabbath in great detail, along with the sin atonement laws. Don't you wonder why that is? Hebrews talks about how those atonement laws are obsolete. then it talks about Gods Sabbath day, not according to the OC but according to the New.


Jeremiah 31
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to[d] them,[e]”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”



Whats better, commands written by Gods finger on stone, or commands written by his finger on the heart? Is that not what Hebrews 4 teaches? Doesn't it teach that God is writing that Sabbath command on our heart?

 

[mmksparbud]

Sure---and it is still to be remembered and kept. The new covenant was not something that came up only in the NT--it was a fulfillment of the OT


(Jer 31:31 JPS) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah;
(Jer 31:32 JPS) not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; forasmuch as they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, saith the LORD.
(Jer 31:33 JPS) But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people;
(Jer 31:34 JPS) and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

 

[Extraneous]

Sure---and it is still to be remembered and kept. The new covenant was not something that came up only in the NT--it was a fulfillment of the OT


(Jer 31:31 JPS) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah;
(Jer 31:32 JPS) not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; forasmuch as they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, saith the LORD.
(Jer 31:33 JPS) But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people;
(Jer 31:34 JPS) and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: 'Know the LORD'; for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more.

I would say that we could just go with Romans 14:5, but i dont think you would agree to that.

 

[mmksparbud]

I would say that we could just go with Romans 14:5, but i dont think you would agree to that.

I have to make this very quick, I have a very sick dog--didn't eat for 3 days, e thought he was going to die 2 days ago, just ate a little today, has had black stools--he has issues and there is nothing we can do but keep him comfortable. He takes a lot of my time--have had him for 10 years and I am glad to give it to him.

Thois was written to the believers who were being persecuted for not following the Jewish traditions and all of their sabbaths---there is more than THE Sabbath. Sabbath days entails many others, all the other Jewish feats. Others thought they should all be kept, along with circumcision. This was no longer needed. Do not them judge you for not keeping those. I guess I should not judge you if you kill, covet, steal, murder?? I am in no way saying that if you keep Sunday you are going to hell---all we are saying it is a commandment from God, none of the others are eliminated come judgement day--it still says remember and keep--it is not going to save you anymore than never having murdered anyone will save you. If you are convicted to keep it and do not--you reject the Holy Spirit's leading---then you will be under God's condemnation---but never mine.
Got to see if Buddie will eat a little more, he will not come into the house and I'm in a wheel chair that is very difficult to get outside. Maybe someone else can take over. This is breaking my heart.

 

[Extraneous]

I have to make this very quick, I have a very sick dog--didn't eat for 3 days, e thought he was going to die 2 days ago, just ate a little today, has had black stools--he has issues and there is nothing we can do but keep him comfortable. He takes a lot of my time--have had him for 10 years and I am glad to give it to him.

Thois was written to the believers who were being persecuted for not following the Jewish traditions and all of their sabbaths---there is more than THE Sabbath. Sabbath days entails many others, all the other Jewish feats. Others thought they should all be kept, along with circumcision. This was no longer needed. Do not them judge you for not keeping those. I guess I should not judge you if you kill, covet, steal, murder?? I am in no way saying that if you keep Sunday you are going to hell---all we are saying it is a commandment from God, none of the others are eliminated come judgement day--it still says remember and keep--it is not going to save you anymore than never having murdered anyone will save you. If you are convicted to keep it and do not--you reject the Holy Spirit's leading---then you will be under God's condemnation---but never mine.
Got to see if Buddie will eat a little more, he will not come into the house and I'm in a wheel chair that is very difficult to get outside. Maybe someone else can take over. This is breaking my heart.

Ok, i guess that's a "no" then. I guess you can keep talking to bugkiller, cause i dont have much more to say sister.