An Index of SDA (Seventh Day Adventist) Errors

[EastCoastRemnant]

Kellogg's history with the church is quite something. He and his brother ended up in a quite bitter split. Kellogg's views made him an outcaste of the SDA church. He left it--it was a mutual agreement. There was a silly movie made about him, I think Anthony Hopkins played him, I could be wrong.

He was promoting pantheism at the end of his time as an Adventist...

 

[mmksparbud]

He was promoting pantheism at the end of his time as an Adventist...

Yah---I think he ate too many Corn Flakes!!!

 

[Ubuntu]

What is wrong with holding Sunday worship even if your main day of worship is Saturday? Nothing, according to the Jews.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding worship services on any day of the week. Adventists will often gather in Church for prayer meetings or religious lectures on normal weekdays. That we're free to attend religious events any day we want, does of course not mean we somehow dishonour the Sabbath... Here is what Ellen White said about holding religious meetings on Sunday:

“Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Savior’s love. Speak on temperance and on true religious experience.” {9T 233.1}

 

[Wgw]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding worship services on any day of the week. Adventists will often gather in Church for prayer meetings or religious lectures on normal weekdays. That we're free to attend religious events any day we want, does of course not mean we somehow dishonour the Sabbath... Here is what Ellen White said about holding religious meetings on Sunday:

“Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Savior’s love. Speak on temperance and on true religious experience.” {9T 233.1}

Indeed, and I agree with her on this point. I wish @EastCoastRemnant did as well! Most Orthodox parishes serve Vespers or All Night Vigils on Saturday evening, and many serve the Divine Liturgy on Saturday Morning.

I know an Adventist lady who married a Coptic Christian and joined the Coptic Church, but I suppose by way of compromise they always go to the Saturday morning liturgy.

Now, the climax of the Triodion, the hymnal covering the cycle of services of Lent and Holy Week, is the service on Holy Saturday commemorating the Great Sabbath, in which our Lord reposed in the tomb. During this service, the black vestments and paraments are changed to white, and then the next service, Paschal Matins, marks the start of the Pentecostarion (the hymnal stretching from Easter until two weeks after Pentecost).

Really, from the sound of it @Ubuntu, my main objection is nit to Adventism per se, but to a militant, fundamentalist form of Adventism certain members of this forum adhere to.

I have edited the OP to delete circumcision, by the way.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding worship services on any day of the week. Adventists will often gather in Church for prayer meetings or religious lectures on normal weekdays. That we're free to attend religious events any day we want, does of course not mean we somehow dishonour the Sabbath... Here is what Ellen White said about holding religious meetings on Sunday:

“Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Savior’s love. Speak on temperance and on true religious experience.” {9T 233.1}

Lets bring a little context to this quote...

Dear Brother,

I will try to answer your question as to what you should do in the case of Sunday laws being enforced. 9T 232.1

The light given me by the Lord at a time when we were expecting just such a crisis as you seem to be approaching, was that when the people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by refraining from their ordinary work on that day, devoting it to missionary effort. 9T 232.2

To defy the Sunday laws will but strengthen in their persecution the religious zealots who are seeking to enforce them. Give them no occasion to call you lawbreakers. If they are left to rein up men who fear neither God nor man, the reining up will soon lose its novelty for them, and they will see that it is not consistent nor convenient for them to be strict in regard to the observance of Sunday. Keep right on with your missionary work, with your Bibles in your hands, and the enemy will see that he has worsted his own cause. One does not receive the mark of the beast because he shows that he realizes the wisdom of keeping the peace by refraining from work that gives offense, doing at the same time a work of the highest importance. 9T 232.3

When we devote Sunday to missionary work, the whip will be taken out of the hands of the arbitrary zealots who would be well pleased to humiliate Seventh-day Adventists. When they see that we employ ourselves on Sunday in visiting the people and opening the Scriptures
to them, they will know that it is useless for them to try to hinder our work by making Sunday laws. 9T 232.4

Sunday can be used for carrying forward various lines of work that will accomplish much for the Lord. On this day open-air meetings and cottage meetings can be held. House-to-house work can be done. Those who write can devote this day to writing their articles. Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Saviour's love. Speak on temperance and on true religious experience. You will thus learn much about how to work, and will reach many souls. 9T 233.1

Let the teachers in our schools devote Sunday to missionary effort. I was instructed that they would thus be able to defeat the purposes of the enemy. Let the teachers take the students with them to hold meetings for those who know not the truth. Thus they will accomplish much more than they could in any other way. 9T 233.2

As we can see here it is referring to a specific point in time, when the Sunday Law is enforced... I do not agree with her contention as it violates clear Biblical teaching found in the story of the three Hebrew worthies. Did they, when faced with persecution, pretend to bow down to tie their sandals when the music played? No, they stood for what was right and God delivered them... we are to obey man's laws as long as they don't contravene God's Laws.

 

[Wgw]

Lets bring a little context to this quote...


As we can see here it is referring to a specific point in time, when the Sunday Law is enforced... I do not agree with her contention as it violates clear Biblical teaching found in the story of the three Hebrew worthies. Did they, when faced with persecution, pretend to bow down to tie their sandals when the music played? No, they stood for what was right and God delivered them... we are to obey man's laws as long as they don't contravene God's Laws.

Well, considering the lack of a Sunday Law or any possibility of one appearing in the near future, this becomes rather hypothetical. Although, frankly, at this point, if Pope Francis, Patriarch Kyril, Patriarch Bartholomew, and Pope Tawadros II were to compell the secular authorities worldwide to impose a Sunday law, I would cheer.

As would millions of persecuted Christians in the Islamic lands, who are prevented from worshipping on Sunday, or discriminated against for such worship.

I am a romanticist; I hope against hope for the rise of a new Byzantine Emperor who will drive the Muslims out of Constantinople and Asia Minor, retake Syria Egypt, North Africa, Mesopotamia and so on for the Christians, and convene a new ecumenical council to reunite the Church and end the Great Schism.

Hail Emperor Constantine XV Geocrator!

Alas, that is unlikely to occur, but the mere thought of such a glorious new Christian empire is blissful to contemplate.

 

[mmksparbud]

In as way it is blissful to contemplate---except for those who do not worship on Sunday---and SDA's are only some of those--there are also Jews and other protestant denominations. It would simply be blissful for us as that means it will definitely all be ending soon---for what ends your Schism, starts ours and forces a stand which you will then have to stamp out.
Hail Jesus Christ!

 

[Wgw]

In as way it is blissful to contemplate---except for those who do not worship on Sunday---and SDA's are only some of those--there are also Jews and other protestant denominations. It would simply be blissful for us as that means it will definitely all be ending soon---for what ends your Schism, starts ours and forces a stand which you will then have to stamp out.
Hail Jesus Christ!

It would not start a schism for you; you are not in communion with us, so its rather a non-issue.

It is even more of a non-issue by virtue of the fact that contrary to the alleged prophecy of Ellen G. White, there is precosely zero chance of it happening in our lifetimes, given that Islam is on track to displace Christianity as the world's largest religion, and favours Friday worship.

Christians are already being persecuted even in Western nations for worshipping on Sunday (the abolition of "blue laws" or Sunday trading laws is making it progressively more difficult for Christians to avoid work on the Lord's Day, whereas Saturday enjoys more protection owing to the social objections to anto-Semitism)'which is why I find the insistence of some Adventists of impending persecution for Saturday worship to be rather offensive.

Not to mention the fact that a ban on Saturday worship would seriously adversely impact the Roman Catholic Church, which you allege is behind this anti-Sabbatarian conspiracy, given that several of the most important RC worship services happen on Saturday: Holy Saturday, and the vigils of Pentecost, Trinity Sunday and Corpus Christie. Oh, and, by the way, since at least Vatican II, the Roman Church has allowed for members to fulfill their Sunday mass obligation at a vesperal mass on Saturday (the Orthodox do not have a mass obligation; my church requires members to go to the Eucharist and confess a minimum of one time each year).

 

[Root of Jesse]

Read down a few more passages and the meaning of this statement is clear... this is clearly scripture taken out of context.

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It's not out of context. Peter was being prepared to go eat with a Gentile. The vision proves that we may eat pork and shellfish.

You should take your time and actually read what was stated... he said "Christmas and Easter are based off Pagan customs, as neither are in the bible."
Now where in that did he say that the birth of Christ or the resurrection are not in the Bible? He said the holidays of Christmas and Easter are based off pagan customs which are not found in the Bible... I'll dumb it down a bit... no where in the Bible is anyone celebrating Christmas or Easter.

We celebrate the Bible by celebrating the events of the Bible. The birth of Christ, the celebration of which we call Christmas, and the resurrection of Christ, which we call Easter, are actual events in the Bible.
By the way, in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul is celebrating the resurrection of Christ, which we do every day of the year, at Mass.

 

[Root of Jesse]

It was customary to bring a King gifts, as that is a custom back then and still is now. It was not saying, since some wise men brought Jesus some gifts, this means that you are to go and shop til you drop and buy all your friends and family some gifts for the birth of Christ on a random date picked in December. The gift giving custom came from the Saturnalia and any non-biased research will prove this. You will not find 12 days of Christmas in the bible and Christmas wasnt even celebrated in AMerica just 150yrs ago, so its clear this is an invention of Rome.

But Im not going to derail this thread, this is just a response to something that was copied form one of my threads and pasted about.

Too late, you already did. Why are you accusing us, who celebrate Christ's birth on Christmas, and His Resurrection on Easter, of shopping til we drop and running around after eggs and bunnies?
Regarding your last sentence, the 12 days is the period from Christmas to Epiphany, count em-12! In case you're interested, here's a short article:
"The song, "The Twelve Days of Christmas" is an English Christmas carol. From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not permitted to practice their faith openly. Someone during that era wrote this carol as a catechism song for young Catholics. It has two levels of meaning: the surface meaning plus a hidden meaning known only to members of the Church. Each element in the carol has a code word for a religious reality which the children could remember. To fit the number scheme, when you reach number 9, representing the Fruits of the Holy Ghost, the originator combined 6 to make 3, taking the 6 fruits that were similar: the fruit in each parenthesis is the that was not named separately. There are actually Twelve Fruits of the Holy Ghost.

The "True Love" one hears in the song is not a smitten boy or girlfriend but Jesus Christ, because truly Love was born on Christmas Day. The partridge in the pear tree also represents Him because that bird is willing to sacrifice its life if necessary to protect its young by feigning injury to draw away predators.

According to Ann Ball in her book, HANDBOOK OF CATHOLIC SACRAMENTALS:

The two turtle doves were the Old and New Testaments

The three French hens stood for faith, hope, and love.

The four calling birds were the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

The five golden rings rerepresented the first five books of the Old Testament, which describe man's fall into sin and the great love of God in sending a Savior.

The six geese a-laying stood for the six days of creation.

Seven swans a-swimming represented the sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit-----Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhortation, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy.

The eight maids a-milking were the eight beatitudes.

Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit-----Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience [Forbearance], Goodness [Kindness], Mildness, Fidelity, Modesty, Continency [Chastity].

The ten lords a-leaping were the Ten Commandments.

The eleven pipers piping stood for the eleven faithful Apostles.

The twelve drummers drumming symbolized the twelve points of belief in The Apostles' Creed.

Original Source: Fr. Calvin Goodwin, FSSP, Nebraska


And concerning the celebration of Christmas, Catholics have celebrated the birth of Christ as long as there's been a Church, and there have been Catholics in America since Columbus sailed the ocean blue, so we can be sure they celebrated Christmas.

 

[Root of Jesse]

See my post above for clarification on the oft misquoted scripture of Acts 10.




In your own mind I'm sure you have convinced yourself but there was no "thoroughly discrediting these malicious unthruths". It's a pattern for you to make a hubric statement and then quote is later as some divine truth.


Nobody I know has ever denied the deity of Christ... as far as the equality of the Godhead, can you provide scripture for that? I can provide dozens that show the Son as deferential and obeisant to the Father. Also why is it they are always referred to as God the Father and our Lord Jesus? I can't find any reference to Lord Father or God the Son...


And yet it's still not found in the Bible...

Actually, when Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and found it empty, she rushed in joy to tell the others. I'd call that a celebration.

 

[Wgw]

Too late, you already did. Why are you accusing us, who celebrate Christ's birth on Christmas, and His Resurrection on Easter, of shopping til we drop and running around after eggs and bunnies?
Regarding your last sentence, the 12 days is the period from Christmas to Epiphany, count em-12! In case you're interested, here's a short article:
"The song, "The Twelve Days of Christmas" is an English Christmas carol. From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not permitted to practice their faith openly. Someone during that era wrote this carol as a catechism song for young Catholics. It has two levels of meaning: the surface meaning plus a hidden meaning known only to members of the Church. Each element in the carol has a code word for a religious reality which the children could remember. To fit the number scheme, when you reach number 9, representing the Fruits of the Holy Ghost, the originator combined 6 to make 3, taking the 6 fruits that were similar: the fruit in each parenthesis is the that was not named separately. There are actually Twelve Fruits of the Holy Ghost.

The "True Love" one hears in the song is not a smitten boy or girlfriend but Jesus Christ, because truly Love was born on Christmas Day. The partridge in the pear tree also represents Him because that bird is willing to sacrifice its life if necessary to protect its young by feigning injury to draw away predators.

According to Ann Ball in her book, HANDBOOK OF CATHOLIC SACRAMENTALS:

The two turtle doves were the Old and New Testaments

The three French hens stood for faith, hope, and love.

The four calling birds were the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

The five golden rings rerepresented the first five books of the Old Testament, which describe man's fall into sin and the great love of God in sending a Savior.

The six geese a-laying stood for the six days of creation.

Seven swans a-swimming represented the sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit-----Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhortation, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy.

The eight maids a-milking were the eight beatitudes.

Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit-----Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience [Forbearance], Goodness [Kindness], Mildness, Fidelity, Modesty, Continency [Chastity].

The ten lords a-leaping were the Ten Commandments.

The eleven pipers piping stood for the eleven faithful Apostles.

The twelve drummers drumming symbolized the twelve points of belief in The Apostles' Creed.

Original Source: Fr. Calvin Goodwin, FSSP, Nebraska


And concerning the celebration of Christmas, Catholics have celebrated the birth of Christ as long as there's been a Church, and there have been Catholics in America since Columbus sailed the ocean blue, so we can be sure they celebrated Christmas.

Indeed, and the Orthodox have been in America since Leif Erickson inadvertantly landed in Vinland.

He converted to Christianity before 1054 and thus we claim him by default.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It's not out of context. Peter was being prepared to go eat with a Gentile. The vision proves that we may eat pork and shellfish.

Your kidding, right?

We celebrate the Bible by celebrating the events of the Bible.

I chose to celebrate the Bible by understanding and obeying was it says. Not as much fun I suppose as parties and festivals...

By the way, in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul is celebrating the resurrection of Christ, which we do every day of the year, at Mass.

He was actually giving reproof for the way the Corinthians were keeping the Lords Supper and giving them again proper instruction. Btw, that reminds me, do Catholics drink the wine from the cup or is that done corporately by the priest? I know every one gets the biscuit but wasn't sure on the wine... thanx.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Indeed, and the Orthodox have been in America since Leif Erickson inadvertantly landed in Vinland.

He converted to Christianity before 1054 and thus we claim him by default.

My people...

 

[Root of Jesse]

Your kidding, right?

Not even a little.

I chose to celebrate the Bible by understanding and obeying was it says. Not as much fun I suppose as parties and festivals...

So Passover, Feast of Booths, Feast of Weeks, Feast of Hannukah aren't feasts? By the way, celebrating such feast has nothing to do with parties. It has everything to do with knowing and understanding why we're feasting...

He was actually giving reproof for the way the Corinthians were keeping the Lords Supper and giving them again proper instruction. Btw, that reminds me, do Catholics drink the wine from the cup or is that done corporately by the priest? I know every one gets the biscuit but wasn't sure on the wine... thanx.

Yes, but he was speaking of the proper way to celebrate the Resurrection of Christ. Catholics do not drink wine from a cup during Mass. We drink the Precious Blood of our Lord from the cup. We don't eat biscuits, either.

Your snideness is getting close to being reported...

 

[civilwarbuff]

Your kidding, right?

Trust me, Root of Jesse has NO sense of humor......

 

[Soyeong]

Adventist teaching and Jehovah's Witnesses are similar in a great many ways. I was raised a JW and while I have great affection towards some of the members, some theological and logical questions present themselves upon even a cursory look at their beliefs.

To their questions about "pagan inspired" holy days: what came first, knowledge of the true, Most High God, or pagan practices? If we believe the Genesis account as true, there can be no doubt about the answer.

Further: who cares. To the victor go the spoils, and Lord Jesus has triumphed over sin and death and His people proclaim this on everyday, but with particular emphasis on certain days throughout the calendar.

Every day on every calendar belongs to God, and He may be rightly magnified.

If we accept Paul's Letters as authoritative, how can Romans 14 not put to rest any concerns about dietary restrictions?

The Sabbath? Romans 14:5.

One really has to engage in significant linguistic and logical gymnastics to get around the plain text understanding of these texts.

We must be careful not to mistake something that was against obeying man's opinion as being against obeying God. The key to understanding Romans 14 is in the first verse where the context is quarreling over disputable matters of opinion, not about whether to obey God. In other words, they might dispute what counted as work on the Sabbath, but no one was disputing whether to keep the Sabbath. Where God gives a clear command, human opinion must yield, but where no clear command is given, then each should be fully convinced in their own minds. Paul was certainly not saying that people could feel free to sin in disobedience God as long as they were convinced in their own minds that it was ok.

For instance, meat that had been sacrificed to idols was often later sold on the market, so if someone were at a community meal and they didn't know where the meat had come from, they might be of the opinion that only vegetables should be eaten (Romans 14:2). They were judging others who ate everything at the meal and were in turn being resented (Romans 14:3). The only time that God commanded fasting was on Yom Kippur, but as a matter of opinion it has become a common practice to fast twice a week or to commemorate certain events (Luke 18:12). Those who esteemed those days were judging those who didn't fast and were in turn being resented (Romans 14:5-6). Whether man esteems one day over another is very different from whether God does. We aren't to keep the Sabbath because we esteem it over other days, but because God did and blessed it and made it holy and command us to keep it. So whether someone fasts on other days is a disputable matter of human opinion, but whether someone chooses to fast on Yom Kippur is a matter of obedience to God.

 

[Soyeong]

It's not. The pernicious error that some foods remain unclean and that merit is gained by avoiding those foods is a clear example of the SDA preaching a false gospel in contravention of Galatians 1:8.

The different Gospel from the one that they preached is the one that says that Christians are free to sin do what God considers to be an abomination.

 

[Soyeong]

Both Sunday and Saturday are wrong. There is no special day of worship, and everyday is to be observed the same way. We also dont go to Church and act one way and then act another outside Church. A good rule of thumb is to never do anything in public that you wouldn't do in Church.

God has commanded a special day of worship and we should obey God rather than man, so if you or anyone else says that we shouldn't follow God's command, then we should follow God instead.

Why argue over holy days instead of embracing liberty in Christ? Christ doesn't want us to be bound to ceremonies and holy days, he wants us to love each other, and to do what is good and just. That's all he wants from us.

God's law is a law of liberty and the liberty that we have in Christ is the liberty to obey God, not the liberty to disregard His commands. If Christ didn't want us to follow ceremonies, then he wouldn't have give us a perfectly sinless example to follow, he wouldn't have instituted them, and we wouldn't have been told to have a holy conduct (1 Peter 1:14-16). He certainly wants us to love each other, which is why he wants us to follow his commands for how to love each other, which are found in the law.

 

[Extraneous]

God has commanded a special day of worship and we should obey God rather than man, so if you or anyone else says that we shouldn't follow God's command, then we should follow God instead.



God's law is a law of liberty and the liberty that we have in Christ is the liberty to obey God, not the liberty to disregard His commands. If Christ didn't want us to follow ceremonies, then he wouldn't have give us a perfectly sinless example to follow, he wouldn't have instituted them, and we wouldn't have been told to have a holy conduct (1 Peter 1:14-16). He certainly wants us to love each other, which is why he wants us to follow his commands for how to love each other, which are found in the law.

I was just sharing my opinion. Feel free to disagree. However, liberty is more than what you say it is. See Galatians 5.