An Important Message from Billy Graham to non-christians

[awitch]

They go to Hell on their own accord.

Because who DOESN'T want to be set on fire for the rest of eternity?

 

[LoAmmi]

They go to Hell on their own accord.

I follow the commandments given to my people from HaShem since Sinai as best I can. Why am I going to Hell?

 

[Deacon Don]

You have brought up the whole attitude for why many of us are not
Christian. The whole idea and trajectory of "you gotta get" into
Heaven and all of the judgmental God and One True Way concepts
surrounding that stuff just doesn't fly for many of us any longer.
Could that have something to do for why so many of our youth are
abandoning the Christian faith?

You're welcome to your opinion for not wanting to be a Christian.
But the fact remains that God makes the rules, so to speak, and
we either follow them or not. We don't get to augment what God
says.

You've decided to not follow and that's certainly your prerogative
and probably makes you feel better.

 

[Deacon Don]

I follow the commandments given to my people from HaShem since
Sinai as best I can. Why am I going to Hell?

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that
no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[bhsmte]

I follow the commandments given to my people from HaShem since Sinai as best I can. Why am I going to Hell?

I guess, your on the wrong team.

 

[LoAmmi]

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that
no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Who said anything about doing works to be saved? That was never part of the deal in the Torah. The concept of salvation isn't even brought up. We're to follow them because it is what was commanded of us to do by the Holy One.

Why is He going to send me to Hell?

 

[steve_bakr]

The purpose of my question ..is a question was posed I have answered said question from my point of view and yet she seems to be having difficulty to understand the meaning of asked and answered.

John 3:16

I wouldn't question her intelligence. I think she is questioning the morality of hell, and this is a valid inquiry to make. My belief is that hell reflects a state of being rather than a place of torment. The descriptions of torment are metaphorical.

The state of hell results from a willfull refusal of grace and of one's life and one's very self. For this constitutes the rejection of God.

Do people who reject Christianity and identify as a child of Gaia go to hell? Not necessarily, because the rejection of God happens at an implicit and existential level.

She may have had Christianity presented to her in terrible ways and so rejected it. Also, she seems to follow truth and morality as she understands it within her own conscience, which is in fact what we are called to do by God. In short, according to Catholic theology, she may well attain to eternal life.

 

[dlamberth]

You've decided to not follow and that's certainly your prerogative
and probably makes you feel better.

Quite honestly, once I understood the reality of Love, Compassion and Helping those in need as the prerequisite for making God ones reality in life, I've never been closer to my Beloved God.

The point of change for me was becoming feed from the Christian images of a Judgmental God, Hell and the need to "get" to Heaven. God is within each and every human being. The magic happens when we begin to treat every person we meet as such.

What I've found that makes me feel better is my love for other people and helping them with a compassionate heart.

.

 

[shawnavery]

I wouldn't question her intelligence. I think she is questioning the morality of hell, and this is a valid inquiry to make. My belief is that hell reflects a state of being rather than a place of torment. The descriptions of torment are metaphorical.

The state of hell results from a willfull refusal of grace and of one's life and one's very self. For this constitutes the rejection of God.

Do people who reject Christianity and identify as a child of Gaia go to hell? Not necessarily, because the rejection of God happens at an implicit and existential level.

She may have had Christianity presented to her in terrible ways and so rejected it. Also, she seems to follow truth and morality as she understands it within her own conscience, which is in fact what we are called to do by God. In short, according to Catholic theology, she may well attain to eternal life.

I know the game..that is all..bye

John 3:16

 

[steve_bakr]

I guess, your on the wrong team.

This is not the correct answer. It is possible for non-Christians to attain eternal life if they accept the necessary circumstances of their life and follow the truth of their own conscience. Our God is a God of grace and mercy, and his grace is available to ALL people.

 

[bhsmte]

I didn't read all of the threads - too heartbreaking to see some of the callous responses. Billy Graham's last message was about how far we have grown away from God - his heart is hurting because of the lack of worship and respect and how God has been kicked out of every place possible. For those who don't believe, why do they find it necessary to come on a Christian forum and insult our beliefs. After all when it is all over and if we are wrong, we have lost nothing - and if they are wrong - they have lost everything. Fact is fact.

What "facts" exactly are you referring to?

 

[dazed]

I follow the commandments given to my people from HaShem since Sinai as best I can. Why am I going to Hell?

Because PR, personal's record, is not good enough!

 

[bhsmte]

You're welcome to your opinion for not wanting to be a Christian.
But the fact remains that God makes the rules, so to speak, and
we either follow them or not. We don't get to augment what God
says.

You've decided to not follow and that's certainly your prerogative
and probably makes you feel better.

God makes the rules in your world and you are welcome to your belief based on faith. It it makes you a better person, than I say that is a terrific thing.

But you see, some people just don't buy the christian story and most of those people (myself included) were christian at one point of their lives. For various reasons, we have decided the story is not something we can believe any longer and doing so, would only be an exercise in fooling ourselves. To some, living a life of fooling yourself is not the right path.

 

[gord44]

After all when it is all over and if we are wrong, we have lost nothing - and if they are wrong - they have lost everything. Fact is fact.

Pascal's Wager. By jingo it has been a while since I saw that.

 

[bhsmte]

I wouldn't question her intelligence. I think she is questioning the morality of hell, and this is a valid inquiry to make. My belief is that hell reflects a state of being rather than a place of torment. The descriptions of torment are metaphorical.

The state of hell results from a willfull refusal of grace and of one's life and one's very self. For this constitutes the rejection of God.

Do people who reject Christianity and identify as a child of Gaia go to hell? Not necessarily, because the rejection of God happens at an implicit and existential level.

She may have had Christianity presented to her in terrible ways and so rejected it. Also, she seems to follow truth and morality as she understands it within her own conscience, which is in fact what we are called to do by God. In short, according to Catholic theology, she may well attain to eternal life.

Or, she doesn't see christianity as believable. She may also not see christianity as being to the same morality level as christians do.

Don't want to speak for Jane, but could be all sorts of reasons.

 

[gord44]

...

 

[Rajni]

They go to Hell on their own accord.

Based on who's rules?

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that
no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

And herein lies the internal contradiction, Deacon Don.

As you suggested previously,[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] people go to hell on their own, yet they don't go to heaven on their own. I used to believe this too for a time, but it presents a conundrum:

If acquiring hell is one's own fault, then, logically, avoiding hell has to be to one's own credit. They're two sides of the same coin.

But Christianity teaches that salvation is a gift, not something earned through good works or right choices, correct? So -- if heaven is freely given through no merit on our part, then, logically, hell is freely given through no fault on our part.

But because those who insist that there's an eternal hell in the first place want to let God off the hook through the use of this doctrinal disconnect in logic, they contradict the free-gift-status of salvation by saying that the opposite thereof is earned.

It truly makes no sense, and it makes God out to be a tyrant (again, not very God-glorifying, imo).

-
[/FONT]

 

[bhsmte]

And herein lies the internal contradiction, Deacon Don.

As you suggested previously,[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] people go to hell on their own, yet they don't go to heaven on their own. I used to believe this too for a time, but it presents a conundrum:

If acquiring hell is one's own fault, then, logically, avoiding hell has to be to one's own credit. They're two sides of the same coin.

But Christianity teaches that salvation is a gift, not something earned through good works or right choices, correct? So -- if heaven is freely given through no merit on our part, then, logically, hell is freely given through no fault on our part.

But because those who insist that there's an eternal hell in the first place want to let God off the hook through the use of this doctrinal disconnect in logic, they contradict the free-gift-status of salvation by saying that the opposite thereof is earned.

It truly makes no sense, and it makes God out to be a tyrant (again, not very God-glorifying, imo).

-
[/FONT]

I have always found it interesting how christians do the psychological gymnastics to make sense out of this.

Christianity is loaded with contradictions that can not be reconciled and IMO, immoral beliefs, that take the accountability away from man.

The serial killer who has caused nothing but pain and suffering to others, is saved as long as he accepts Jesus as his savior 5 minutes before they execute him, but the Buddhist nurse who has done nothing but help people her whole life, is doomed for eternity.

 

[gord44]

The serial killer who has caused nothing but pain and suffering to others, is saved as long as he accepts Jesus as his savior 5 minutes before they execute him.

Let's not forget the non-Christian victims of said serial killer who according to some Christians will be in hell while the killer heads to paradise. Such justice!

 

[Zoness]

And herein lies the internal contradiction, Deacon Don.

As you suggested previously,[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif] people go to hell on their own, yet they don't go to heaven on their own. I used to believe this too for a time, but it presents a conundrum:

If acquiring hell is one's own fault, then, logically, avoiding hell has to be to one's own credit. They're two sides of the same coin.

But Christianity teaches that salvation is a gift, not something earned through good works or right choices, correct? So -- if heaven is freely given through no merit on our part, then, logically, hell is freely given through no fault on our part.

But because those who insist that there's an eternal hell in the first place want to let God off the hook through the use of this doctrinal disconnect in logic, they contradict the free-gift-status of salvation by saying that the opposite thereof is earned.

It truly makes no sense, and it makes God out to be a tyrant (again, not very God-glorifying, imo).

-
[/FONT]

This is interesting and in my Catholic (and later Protestant) upbringing this concept was never fleshed out. I'd like to see someone address it.