Amos 9:14-15 Fulfilled, or not?

[Yekcidmij]

So you have no way to really identify modern Israel with the Northern Kingdom. That was my point.

 

[parousia70]

All the prophesies of the Land are presently, totally and completely FULFILLED IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST.

Amos 9:15 points to Jesus, not to dirt.

"For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us." [2 Corinthians 1:2]

 

[OneAccordRM]

So you have no way to really identify modern Israel with the Northern Kingdom. That was my point.

Modern Israel is still expanding her borders, there are other prophecies that are not fulfilled(Psalm 83), so while I believe modern Israel is the only Israel there will ever be from this point forward, and the Jews therein, we still have unfinished prophecy that needs to be fulfilled in its entirety.

This show isnt over.

If you ask me if I believe that another group of people calling themselves Jews will occupy Israel, as if there is some hidden remnant of Israelites who haven already moved back to Israel, I would say that is not likely.

If the prophecy is unfulfilled, then it will have to be fulfilled in the future, because as we know, God is not a liar.


Do you believe the prophecy is fulfilled or not?

You keep asking me questions but never seem to answer mine, which is fine, you dont have to answer, Im just curious as to how a Christian can continuously avoid answering a simple question.

kinda weird actually, we have nothing to hide.

 

[Danoh]

My God, but that image is hilarious, lol

Loved It!!!

Let's add some words to it - "would you believe forty years and a boyscout knife," lol

Then again, that image is off - Interplanter obviously works for C.H.A.O.S. - Christian Hermeneutics Assembled of Scholars, lol

Just bustin your too serious chops, Interlo, er, planner Man, loosen up!!!

 

[OneAccordRM]

All the prophesies of the Land are presently, totally and completely FULFILLED IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST.

Amos 9:15 points to Jesus, not to dirt.

"For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us." [2 Corinthians 1:2]

The Bible doesnt say all the promises of the land are fulfilled in the person of Christ.

That is your own personal doctrine.

I think you meant 1:20

2Co 1:20 For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us.

Are you saying every prophecy has been fulfilled?

Did Christ return already?

Is this the new heaven and earth mentioned in Revelation?

 

[Yekcidmij]

Modern Israel is still expanding her borders,

Based on recent history they seem to be giving up areas, not expanding.

there are other prophecies that are not fulfilled(Psalm 83), so while I believe modern Israel is the only Israel there will ever be from this point forward, and the Jews therein, we still have unfinished prophecy that needs to be fulfilled in its entirety.

This show isnt over.

Maybe, but it's hard to say that it's a fulfillment of Amos if it's not what Amos means when he says "Israel."

If you ask me if I believe that another group of people calling themselves Jews will occupy Israel, as if there is some hidden remnant of Israelites who haven already moved back to Israel, I would say that is not likely.

I don't think the Northern Kingdom called themselves Jews. I think they called themselves Israelites, Jacob, and/or identified themselves by their tribal affiliation.

Do you believe the prophecy is fulfilled or not?

You keep asking me questions but never seem to answer mine, which is fine, you dont have to answer, Im just curious as to how a Christian can continuously avoid answering a simple question.

I think it's a loaded question. We don't agree on the identification of Israel in Amos, the identity of the modern state of Israel, wherther or not the NK was "Jewish," etc.. Given my assumptions and conclusions, I think it has been.

 

[OneAccordRM]

Based on recent history they seem to be giving up areas, not expanding.

Give it time, you are seeing the unraveling of the middle east and the uniting of the arabs against Israel, soon a major war is going to break out, the ice is breaking.

Maybe, but it's hard to say that it's a fulfillment of Amos if it's not what Amos means when he says "Israel."

Unfortunately God only refers to "his people Israel" and we are left to discern from there on.

I don't think the Northern Kingdom called themselves Jews. I think they called themselves Israelites, Jacob, and/or identified themselves by their tribal affiliation.

Jacobs name is Israel.

I think it's a loaded question. We don't agree on the identification of Israel in Amos, the identity of the modern state of Israel, wherther or not the NK was "Jewish," etc.. Given my assumptions and conclusions, I think it has been.

It is a loaded question, but that just means that you cant answer without challenging your own beliefs, doesnt affect me.

If you cant answer the question, its ok.

 

[OneAccordRM]

I think it's a loaded question. We don't agree on the identification of Israel in Amos, the identity of the modern state of Israel, wherther or not the NK was "Jewish," etc.. Given my assumptions and conclusions, I think it has been.

I guess first we should establish whether or not you believe Amos was giving a prophecy as a word from the Lord in verse 14-15.

Then we would need to find out if you believe the prophecy is actually true or not.

Then we can determine, based on your understanding of it, not mine, whether or not you believe it has been fulfilled or not.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Give it time, you are seeing the unraveling of the middle east and the uniting of the arabs against Israel, soon a major war is going to break out, the ice is breaking.

So that was my point. You have no way of identifying the modern state with the Northern Kingdom. Essentially your argument is: wait and see. That's not an argument/reason though.

Unfortunately God only refers to "his people Israel" and we are left to discern from there on.

It's pretty clear in Amos.

It is a loaded question,

Thanks for admitting the obvious. I don't usually continue with fallacious reasoning, so forgive me for not continuing with loaded questions.

 

[OneAccordRM]

So that was my point. You have no way of identifying the modern state with the Northern Kingdom. Essentially your argument is: wait and see. That's not an argument/reason though.

I cannot prove God exists to a non believer either, that requires faith in the truth of God.

It is my belief the Jews in Israel are the fulfillment and will continue to fulfill it, but that is my belief, you are not required to hold to it.

Thanks for admitting the obvious. I don't usually continue with fallacious reasoning, so forgive me for not continuing with loaded questions.

You dont answer questions very well when you know the answer condemns your theology and fundamental beliefs.

I wouldnt answer either, fortunately, there is no question I cannot answer.


If I dont know, I would simply say, "I dont know" something your pride is preventing you from doing.

 

[Yekcidmij]

I cannot prove God exists to a non believer either, that requires faith in the truth of God.

True.

It is my belief the Jews in Israel are the fulfillment and will continue to fulfill it, but that is my belief, you are not required to hold to it.

Ok.

You dont answer questions very well when you know the answer condemns your theology and fundamental beliefs.

I wouldnt answer either, fortunately, there is no question I cannot answer.

If I dont know, I would simply say, "I dont know" something your pride is preventing you from doing.

Yea, so I'm not going to pursue a game of loaded questions. You can rationalize my reasons however you wish. I will tell you though that I just don't continue with fallacious reasoning, but feel free to use your imagination to come up with whatever you think my real motives must be.

 

[OneAccordRM]

Yea, so I'm not going to pursue a game of loaded questions. You can rationalize my reasons however you wish. I will tell you though that I just don't continue with fallacious reasoning, but feel free to use your imagination to come up with whatever you think my real motives must be.

Feel free to continue not answering my question.

You are a calvinist, you need only read my signature to see your own foundational manmade doctrinal beliefs refuted.

When you are ready to answer a simple question, Im always here.

As it stands, you refuse to acknowledge whether or not Amos 9:14-15 has been fulfilled or not.

Even if im wrong about the modern Jews being the fulfillment, it just means the prophecy is unfulfilled, and no prophecy of the Bible goes unfulfilled.

To refute that is to refute God, not me.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Feel free to continue not answering my question.

You are a calvinist, you need only read my signature to see your own foundational manmade doctrinal beliefs refuted.

When you are ready to answer a simple question, Im always here.

As it stands, you refuse to acknowledge whether or not Amos 9:14-15 has been fulfilled or not.

Even if im wrong about the modern Jews being the fulfillment, it just means the prophecy is unfulfilled, and no prophecy of the Bible goes unfulfilled.

To refute that is to refute God, not me.

Whatever makes you feel better about asking loaded questions.

 

[OneAccordRM]

Whatever makes you feel better about asking loaded questions.

If someone doesnt believe in Jesus Christ, and asks you if you believe the prophecy of Jesus coming at the end to bring in his kingdom, do you run from that question as well. You know the question is loaded, you know they are going to refute you no matter what you say.

Does that mean you stop evangelizing the lost and bringing people to Christ?

Something to think about.


I made it simple for you, all I asked what if you think Amos 9:14-15 was fulfilled or not.

Its yes, or no, there is no other possible answer than yes or no, and you are incapable of answering.

Why is that?

You dont have to give an account of why you believe it is or not, just yes or no.

 

[Yekcidmij]

If someone doesnt believe in Jesus Christ, and asks you if you believe the prophecy of Jesus coming at the end to bring in his kingdom, do you run from that question as well. You know the question is loaded, you know they are going to refute you no matter what you say.

Does that mean you stop evangelizing the lost and bringing people to Christ?

Something to think about.


I made it simple for you, all I asked what if you think Amos 9:14-15 was fulfilled or not.

Its yes, or no, there is no other possible answer than yes or no, and you are incapable of answering.

Why is that?

You dont have to give an account of why you believe it is or not, just yes or no.

I recognize, and you admit, that you are asking loaded questions. The problem isn't in the response; the problem is in the questioner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

 

[OneAccordRM]

I recognize, and you admit, that you are asking loaded questions. The problem isn't in the response; the problem is in the questioner.

You just dont want to answer the question, the answer is yes or no.

Is amos 9:14-15 fulfilled or not, Im not sure there is any other way to ask the question lol

Trust me, Id make it easier for you if I could, but the question is whether or not the prophecy has been fulfilled or not, and you cant answer it.


Is the prophecy concerning the coming of Jesus Christ fulfilled in Isaiah 7:14?

Can you answer that one?

 

[OneAccordRM]

Whatever makes you feel better about asking loaded questions.

Keep in mind you are making a presupposition on the validity of Gods word based on my comprehension of it.

I promise, it doesnt matter what I believe, the prophecy is either true, or not.

I believe its true, because God proclaimed it.

Since God proclaimed it, its a matter of when did it happen, is it fulfilled or not.


You cant answer the question because it conflicts with your theology, but the validity of Gods word is not contingent on your comprehension of its validity.


The question is and always will be, has the prophecy come to pass or not.


And yet you cannot answer.

 

[keras]

Regarding whether Amos 9:15-16 has been fulfilled; may I suggest members look at Jeremiah 12. This is an interesting chapter that seems to apply to todays situation.
Jer. 12:2 ..the faithless are planted and have taken root, You, [God] are ever on their lips, but far from their hearts.[The situation in Israel today]
Jer. 12:9 Is the holy Land a hyena's lair with birds of prey hovering around it?
Jer. 12:12 Plunderers have swarmed over the Land, but a sword of the Lord will devour them, from one end to the other. [The coming Day of the Lord's wrath]
Jer. 12:14-17 The Lord says: All those evil neighbors who have encroached onto the Land that I allotted to My people, I will uproot them... Also I will uproot Judah from as well. But if they diligently learn the ways of My people, [Christians] then I will have pity and allow them to establish families among My people. The nations who refuse to accept the truth of My Word, I shall destroy.

 

[Interplanner]

Keras,
no way. You can't find Christians back there in "my people" in Jeremiah! Remarkable!

 

[keras]

IP, what is remarkable, is how you cannot see how prophesies that are patently unfulfilled, WILL be fulfilled in God's good time. Jeremiah 12 is prophecy that fits very well to todays situation and can't be said to have happened as described before.

Who are 'My people'? Read these verses, they describe Christians:
Psalm 24:3-5, Romans 9:24-26, Malachi 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:11-18, Isaiah 56:1-3, Psalm 69:36, Psalm 37:9, Isaiah 55:1-3 and many other scriptures that describe those who belong to the Lord, pre or post Jesus.