Amos 3:7, the New Testament & the Commandments

[1John2:4]

The answer to your other question is I Jn 3:23. No one here is teaching against the commandments in that they are teaching other to murder etc.

Your personal problem is the disbelief of Jere 31:31-33 to justify your position of being required to keep the law for salvation. It does not matter if you claim keeping the law is required for salvation or if it is because you love God. If one does not keep the law in your eyes they are sinning, that is unjustified. Being unjustified means no salvation. It does no good to quote the inspired Word of God because it is summarily dismissed.

bugkiller

I did not ask you what I believe. I am aware of what I believe. Please do not put words into my mouth. And I do not do and teach the law for salvation.

My question is why do you teach others to disregard God's law and His Sabbaths what is your objective in doing so?

 

[Aseyesee]

Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord God does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets.


This verse makes it pretty clear that God does nothing that he doesn't reveal through his prophets first. There are the Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus and other examples like sending a messenger(John the baptist), the telling of the future in Daniel and some of the other Prophets that agree with Revelations, and more.


So where in any of the prophets did God reveal to them that the 10 commandments were temporary or that he was going to abolish all of his commands in the future???

We never come to the narrative that the law is, which in picture goes forth from Jerusalem in relationship to a son, or in another place, a pure river of life. Instead we tend to bicker over what is already inherent in the son that we are; opposing ourselves, which Adam's garden scenario is one picture of.

 

[listed]

I did not ask you what I believe. I am aware of what I believe. Please do not put words into my mouth. And I do not do and teach the law for salvation.

My question is why do you teach others to disregard God's law and His Sabbaths what is your objective in doing so?

We are aware of what you believe. I don't think buggy put any words in your mouth.

You don't teach the law is required for salvation? Then what is the big hoopla about? Can a person disregard God's law and still maintain salvation? The Israelites did and suffered greatly. Are we any different?

 

[Bob S]

No one has ever said the law was for salvation purposes,

Wrong, don't try to cover for SDAs. If people do not observe Sabbath they loose their eternal salvation. I have no idea what Messianics believe concerning observing old covenant rituals. The way you try to defend and tell us Torah has to be observed I wonder if you ceased tying to be obedient to Torah if you too would not think you are saved.

it was to point out their sin and show them a need for a savior.

Here is what God said He gave the law for.
Ex 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

There is more to the law than pointing out their sins. The law was given to make Israel a Holy Nation. Keeping the law provided them a home. They broke the law so many times God finally said enough is enough, Jesus came, proved that the law could be kept, set up the new covenant, ratified it with His own blood and died on the Cross for all mankind.

It was not a sin to work on the seventh day of the week until God gave them the law prohibiting such activity. This is so with most of the laws the Israelites accepted at Sinai. There was no sin when there was no Passover. There is no sin for Gentiles not observing ritual laws given only to Israel. God never gave gentiles those laws.

Read the ENTIRE chapter of Hosea 2 and you will see they were big on Idolatry with all the Baal worship and God was going to take everything away from them, Sabbaths and all as a punishment when he separated Israel. It wasn't saying he was going to abolish the Sabbaths, as you clearly see them keeping them in the New Testament under the New Covenant.

No I do not see them keeping the Sabbath. They may have assembled on the Sabbath. Nothing wrong with that. They were there to teach the Jews about Messiah. You are trivializing what God said in Hosea. Only those with preconceived ideas would try to make Hosea's words say something other than what they do.

 

[listed]

I am just so confused why they just don't see what the context says. Do they honestly see something totally different than we do? It is so clear in scripture. The meaning of these verses, within the verse itself, have been bolded, put in red, all caps, repeated over and over and they are still constantly being debated. Why? I do not understand

This is a debate forum. Does your comment mean you're not debating? If so what are you doing?

 

[listed]

Do you have any scripture indicating which ones are ceremonial items of the law?

Ex 20:8-11 and Lev 23 are good ones. All celebrations are ceremonies.

 

[Bob S]

We are aware of what you believe. I don't think buggy put any words in your mouth.

You don't teach the law is required for salvation? Then what is the big hoopla about? Can a person disregard God's law and still maintain salvation? The Israelites did and suffered greatly. Are we any different?

I am not fully aware of what they believe. John says he "keeps" Torah and yet when asked if he keeps certain parts he either does not answer at all or he makes comments like when I asked him if he wears tassels on his garments he made the comment: "Tzitzit is a good idea so we remember His commandments", but he didn't admit to wearing them. Wearing tassels was a very important sign and God expected the Israelites to wear them.
Numbers 15:39
You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.

 

[listed]

I believe Israel chose NOT to keep Torah and to give into Idolatry that was the issue. They turned thier back on God and refused to repent. Fun Fact: repent means to turn back to God.

That verse in Hosea 2:11 does not fit with what you are trying to make it say based on the context of the passage. I will leave it at that because I do not wish to beat a dead horse any longer .

New Covenant is about His Laws being placed on our hearts. Yes is is about loving God and how do we love Him? We keep His Commandments.
Says the Bible
Duet 6
Duet 7:9
Duet 10:12
Duet 11:1
Duet 11:22
Duet 13
Josh 22:5
Nehemiah 1:5
Daniel 9:4
1 John 5:2 & 5:3

I believe the NT replaces the law. Is 1 John 3:23 a commandment of God? If so why are not the commandments of the Father (OT) also included? Remember buggy's John 15:10.

 

[listed]

Well of course it's a celebration, why would you want to throw it out?

What do you do on the sabbath that a Christian wouldn't do on Sunday? Most Christians worship on Sunday. Do you have a problem with that? If not, what is the problem?

 

[listed]

I do believe in Jerimiah 31 just not the way you are spinning it by taking one verse out of context and making it have an alternate meaning.
How so are they different? Please explain.

What is being taken out of context? Haven't you been asked how "not according to" means the "same as?" I don't recall seeing a response to this.

You did ask "How are they different?" What is they? Are you talking about covenants?

 

[1John2:4]

We are aware of what you believe. I don't think buggy put any words in your mouth.

You don't teach the law is required for salvation? Then what is the big hoopla about? Can a person disregard God's law and still maintain salvation? The Israelites did and suffered greatly. Are we any different?

I did not ask what he or you think I believe. I asked why y'all teach against the law and the prophets. What is your objective to teach against them, what do you wish to accomplish by teaching others not to follow God's instuctions?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I did not ask what he or you think I believe. I asked why y'all teach against the law and the prophets. What is your objective to teach against them, what do you wish to accomplish by teaching others not to follow God's instuctions?

Would that be comparable to teens drag-racing down main street,
'daring' one another to run all the red-lights to win the race ?

 

[listed]

Again fullfill is taken out of context, if you read the context clues He says "do not THINK I have come to distroy the Law and the Prophets" how can you miss that part?

How is fulfill taken out of context? I gave you the dictionary definition. You have also been provided Luke 24:44 explaining the predicament.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I believe the NT replaces the law

This way of thinking has left multitudes wandering aimlessly, like sheep without a shepherd , I think.

Or children without schooling, 3 years old to 15 years old put out on the street on their own seeking things to do,
instead of being trained in the way they should live.

 

[1John2:4]

Ex 20:8-11 and Lev 23 are good ones. All celebrations are ceremonies.

Did God say that in His word, or did you come up with that from your own understanding?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is a debate forum. Does your comment mean you're not debating? If so what are you doing?

It means to me that little children are granted the experiential knowledge of everything concerning salvation in this life and in the life to come,
while scholars and the educated and religious leaders are often excluded, as this pleases the Father in heaven.

 

[listed]

So God and Jesus are not one? They do not agree with eachother? The Son is in the Father and we are in the Son.

Are you trying to say God the Father and God the Son are the same entity? I don't believe they are the same entity. I do believe both are God. I believe the trinity doctrine.

 

[listed]

Did God say that in His word, or did you come up with that from your own understanding?

Yes God said to celebrate creation. That is a ceremony. A person can remember creation on any day. I do often wonder at what I see happening in nature on other days. To set aside a day for this is ceremonial.

 

[1John2:4]

How is fulfill taken out of context? I gave you the dictionary definition. You have also been provided Luke 24:44 explaining the predicament.

I already went over Matthew 5 with you and others.

He fullfilled what was written about Him in the prophecies. Isaiah 53 Psalm 22 that he would suffer for our sins and pay the penalty with His blood, not do away with God's law that was never written about Him.
Luke 24:44-44
Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

 

[listed]

I already went over Matthew 5 with you and others.

He fullfilled what was written about Him in the prophecies. Isaiah 53 Psalm 22 that he would suffer for our sins and pay the penalty with His blood, not do away with God's law that was never written about Him.
Luke 24:44-44
Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

Your issue is the law is not done away with, correct? Jots and tittles have passed from the law making the whole covenant invalid. Is Hebrews 7:12 the inspired Scripture?
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

If the law isn't done away with Jesus is not a priest and especially not our priest concerning God. If Jesus is not our priest there is no salvation. If the law is still in force Jesus (God) is a sinner just like us. That would mean the whole thing is nothing but a farce.