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Amillennialism

Anto9us

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I posted this in the RAPTURE WIMPISM thread, without conflict or comment:


Some Rapture views seem sort of wimpy
I can't swallow all of Jack Van Impe
John Hagge's still at the buffet
Gone to the Lord is Tim LaHaye

ch - (on Christ the solid rock I stand - etc. you know it)

Is my hope built on nothing less
Than Scofield's notes and Walvoord's best?
I dare not trust the sweetest frame
Or wholly lean on Darby's claim

ch

When He shall come with trumpet sound
Lotta end time views will be shut down
Even Grant Jeffrey may think twice
And second thoughts for Tommy Ice

ch
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus

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Another tie in with Jerusalem in Daniel and Revelation:
Wrath:

3709. orge or-gay' by implication punishment:--anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

Luke 21
22 because these are days of vengeance<1557>, to fulfill all things that have been written. [Daniel 12:1]
23 ‘And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days;
for there shall be great distress on the land, and wrath<3709> on this people; [Revelation 11:18]
24 and they shall fall by the mouth of the sword, and shall be led captive to all the nations, [Reve 13:10]
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by nations, till the times of nations be fulfilled.

Strong's Number G3709 matches the Greek ὀργή (orgē), which occurs 36 times in 34 verses
Used in 5 verses of the Gosples

That exact form of #3709 is used 1 time in Revelation:

Revelation 11
18 and the nations were angry<3710>, and Thine anger/wrath<3709> did come, and the time of the dead, to be judged, and to give the reward to Thy servants, to the prophets, and to the saints,
and to those fearing Thy name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those who are destroying the land.’

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away. [Luke 21:23]
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I just want to ask this so I can get more clarification of the Amill view.
Do Amills view the 1st 19 chapters of Revelation as fulfilled?
Thanks.
 
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Paidiske

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red-strawberry-hat-wool-beret-girls-winter-wear20667.jpg

MOD HAT ON
This thread has had a small clean.
Please do not use this thread to debate, discredit, subtly undermine,
or in any other way, disagree with amillennial views.​
MOD HAT OFF
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Modern times
Amillennialism has been widely held in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches as well as in the Roman Catholic Church, which generally embraces an Augustinian eschatology and which has deemed that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught."
I just learned more on what Augustinian eschatology is and the history of Amillennialism..............

https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-15/augustines-millenial-views.html
*snip*
Many Roman citizens blamed the sack on Christianity, which had displaced paganism as the state religion. Angry pagans argued that the old religion had been betrayed.
Word spread quickly that defeat had come because the pagan deities were offended by all this Christianizing, and that Alaric was their chastisement.

To answer these accusations, Augustine composed his great treatise, The City of God. In the first part he reminds pagan accusers that Rome had suffered catastrophes long before the advent of Christianity. He suggests it was not Christianity that brought Rome to her knees, but decadence within.

However, Augustine’s great work contains a good deal more than a simple response to accusations against Christianity. He seizes the opportunity to set forth a Christian philosophy of history. ...................

https://hts.org.za/index.php/hts/article/view/1188/2335
*snip*
Abstract

This article dealt with the church father Augustine’s view on history and eschatology. After analysing the relevant material (especially his City of God and the correspondence with a certain Hesyschius) it was concluded that, firstly, Augustine was no historian in the usual sense of the word; secondly, his concept of historia sacra was the heuristic foundation for his idea of history; thirdly, the present is not to be described in the terms of historia sacra, which implies that he took great care when pointing out any instances of ‘God’s hand in history’; fourthly, the end times have already started, with the advent of Jesus Christ; fifthly, because of the uniqueness of Christ’s coming, it runs counter to any cyclical worldview; sixthly, identifying any exact moment of the end of times is humanly impossible and seventhly, there is no room for any ‘chiliastic’ expectation.....................

https://bible.org/article/theology-adrift-early-church-fathers-and-their-views-eschatology
*snip*

Chapter Five:
The Paradigm Shift:
From Premillennialism to Amillennialism


Philip Schaff, no dispensational premillennialist, observed that "the most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millennarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgment."58
Schaff noted that the hope of Christ's imminent return "through the whole age of persecution, was a copious fountain of encouragement and comfort under the pains of that martyrdom which sowed in blood the seed of a bountiful harvest for the church."59
Even church fathers who committed other errors discussed above, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian, remained committed premillennialists. For example, Clement of Rome conspicuously combined premillennialism with a clear belief in the imminency of Christ's return. He wrote:

Of a truth, soon and suddenly shall His will be accomplished, as the Scripture also bears witness, saying, Speedily will He come, and will not tarry; and, The Lord shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Holy One, for whom ye look.60

Barnabas, an early member of the Alexandrian school who otherwise spiritualized the Old Testament, expressly taught a millennial reign of Christ on the earth:.............................
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2

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No.

The end of Revelation chapter 6 is the Second Coming of Christ, with the same signs in the sun, moon, and stars as found in the Olivet Discourse.

So is Revelation 11:15-18, with the 7th trumpet and "the time of the judgment of the dead".


And the "harvest" of chapter 14.


And when He "comes as a thief" in Revelation 16:15-16.


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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No.

The end of Revelation chapter 6 is the Second Coming of Christ, with the same signs in the sun, moon, and stars as found in the Olivet Discourse.

So is Revelation 11:15-18, with the 7th trumpet and "the time of the judgment of the dead".
And the "harvest" of chapter 14.
And when He "comes as a thief" in Revelation 16:15-16.
.
Thank you.
I went from partial Preterist to Amill because I thought the Amills were of the view that the 2nd coming happens after the 1000 yr period.
Now you are saying it happens before the 1000yr period?
I am just a tad confused.
 
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BABerean2

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Thank you.
I went from partial Preterist to Amill because I thought the Amills were of the view that the 2nd coming happens after the 1000 yr period.
Now you are saying it happens before the 1000yr period?
I am just a tad confused.

No.

The 1,000 year period of Revelation chapter 20 is symbolic of the Church Age.

We have "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, which agrees with Christ's words in John 5:27-30.

Therefore, Revelation 20 is a parenthetical, symbolic look at earlier events in the Book of Revelation.

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

Therefore, the Second Coming is found at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

The "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 is the event found in John 5:24.

It is the spiritual resurrection from the dead.
I was dead and now I am alive.

John saw "souls" in Revelation chapter 20.

Souls are found in heaven.
They have already been through "the first resurrection" found in John 5:24.


Sorry for the confusion.


.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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No.

The 1,000 year period of Revelation chapter 20 is symbolic of the Church Age.

We have "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, which agrees with Christ's words in John 5:27-30.

Therefore, Revelation 20 is a parenthetical, symbolic look at earlier events in the Book of Revelation.

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10. The fire comes at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

Therefore, the Second Coming is found at the end of Revelation chapter 20.

The "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 is the event found in John 5:24.

It is the spiritual resurrection from the dead.
I was dead and now I am alive.

John saw "souls" in Revelation chapter 20.

Souls are found in heaven.
They have already been through "the first resurrection" found in John 5:24.


Sorry for the confusion.


.
Great, thanks for clarifying that.
 
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Tayla

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Amillennialism teaches that the thousand year reign of Christ mentioned in Revelation 20:1-6 is symbolic of the current church age, rather than a literal future 1000 year reign.
It contends that the period described in Revelation 20 was inaugurated (i.e. began) at Christ's resurrection and will continue until His Second Coming.
I consider myself an amillennialist but have a different view. I believe the 1,000 years is a literal 1,000 years, but that it is *not* the millennium (because there is no millennium).

In my view the 1,000 years began with Christ and ended 1,000 years later with the schism between eastern and western Christianity. Satan literally could not deceive the nations during that time and, therefore, the gospel was able to prosper and spread without being crushed, which surely would have occurred if Satan were actively deceiving the nations.
 
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jgr

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I consider myself an amillennialist but have a different view. I believe the 1,000 years is a literal 1,000 years, but that it is *not* the millennium (because there is no millennium).

In my view the 1,000 years began with Christ and ended 1,000 years later with the schism between eastern and western Christianity. Satan literally could not deceive the nations during that time and, therefore, the gospel was able to prosper and spread without being crushed, which surely would have occurred if Satan were actively deceiving the nations.
Interesting perspective.

But according to Revelation 20:6, those who reign with Christ for 1,000 years are those who have experienced the first resurrection, which is the resurrection that raises those who believe, from death in sin to life in Christ (John 5:24; Ephesians 2:1). That has now been occurring for almost 2,000 literal years, and will continue until Christ returns.

Thus the 1,000 years in Revelation 20 already encompass almost 2,000 literal years; and therefore the number "1,000" does not represent literal years.
 
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Tayla

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those who reign with Christ for 1,000 years are those who have experienced the first resurrection, which is the resurrection that raises those who believe, from death in sin to life in Christ
Yes, that is what happened. The passage doesn't say anything about after the 1,000 years.
 
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Stringfellow_Hawke

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Baptist here.

I was always taught premil. Dispensationalism as its called. It wasn't until reaching adulthood that I finally heard the others. As of right now, I hold to premil, but I have realized through study, that even if that is the case, we will be here to see some of the tribulation and/or rise of the anti-christ. As to how much I don't know. Knowing this makes me start leaning post or amil. I'm 100% open to studying all views (just haven't got around to it)
 
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Stringfellow_Hawke

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This one only takes 10 minutes.


.

Well. I watched it. And I still don’t know exactly where I stand. End times prophecy has always stumped me.

I’m to-a stoopid to make up my own mind!
 
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