Am I The Only One

[Sabertooth]

Sometimes one of your own family can come in rushing in on christmas eve, and kill you before you get a chance to even change your mind about God. (Been watching to many crime stories on youtube).

Well, that isn't very Episcopalian...!

 

[Goodhuman]

Given that the wages of sin is death, paying the last cent for their sins means judgement to death.
Bye bye sinner, its gonna be hot down there.

Talk for yourself!

 

[d taylor]

I have to say that I disagree..

It is all about the cross. Christ is the lamb who was slain. He was the sacrifice to end all sacrifices..

What did He say in the garden..

Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

If this was not necessary.. would it not fall into the "if it be possible, let this cup pass"?

The Messiah's death on the cross took away the sin of the world for every single person who ever lived. That is why at the great white throne judgment unbelievers are judged for their works and not their sins (they have been paid for). But they (the unbelievers) are where they are ( getting ready to be judged for their works) because they never trusted in The Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life. So the only place for a person lacking eternal life is the lake of fire.

The Messiah does not say here in John 5:39,40 to go to the cross for eternal life. But to come to Him (The Messiah) for eternal life.

The cross is again one of the miracles/signs (8) listed, in the Gospel of John (John 20:30,31) that should point a person to The Messiah. And show that He was, who He said He was, The promised Messiah from the Tanakh. So then the unbeliever may look to and trust in the Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

The question is many believe that Jesus died on the cross, but have they trusted in The Messiah for life.

 

[Blade]

If your the only one.. you are VERY POWERFUL!..sorry that was a movie! Smile!

Bless you rose2020 I mean that. I look out in this world and then even Christian forums who is right? Which Jesus is GOD going to hold each accountable to? Our Father knows this Take this next part with a grain of salt its ok when I was 12-14 listening to the Christian radio (no internet then) I was thinking about the lost and I just asked Him and duh never expect GOD to talk back. He said "for God so loved the world, everyone gets a choice".

How that happens I don't know. I know He shows up to Muslims and all people around the world as of late. I know Jesus said "if you were blind you would have no sin. You say you see your sin remains". Most are blind.

But think of it like this.. He left heaven.. became His creation and then took everyones sin. I cry just thinking about that. No one loves man more then Him. He left the 99 to just get the ONE! You me? We are haha THE ONE! Ah praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS.

So no clue.. I just have faith that He will make sure each one of HIS creation know with out a doubt HE IS GOD.. JESUS/YESHUA died for them.. and then they make a choice. A story my mom told me.. she was working with elderly and a man was about to die.. in a coma. My mom prayed I am sure with others. She knew he never new Christ.. prayed he would get one more chance.. next day woke up.. got saved.. passed away. Have faith in your Father..

 

[JacksBratt]

@RushMAN Sometimes one of your own family can come in rushing in on christmas eve, and kill you before you get a chance to even change your mind about God. (Been watching to many crime stories on youtube).

I don't no what you are trying to say here.

It retrospect of allowing God to be God, and he is not at all human by no means.

To say there is no second chances, seems like a dominating sentence and a factual one.

Though we still have yet to pass away from life be 100% on the fact.

What you have stated comes to mind about the Second Death, is it possible that the second death that is of the the lake of fire is a purifying method for the non believers, who still get to be alive although (can't say how a spiritual body feels flames because all people will be resurrected with a spiritual body and not a fleshly one).

Get to live through the experience of God's ever showering fire of love?

All that is being said here is with God all things are possible. There is no way for me to have all the answers but for hope of a God loving, who has a justice side too, to be able to make ends meet where, people have a second chance, and all willingly bow, and confess that Yeshua is Lord.

Thanks for bearing my weight brother, and may grace, peace, mercy, of God our Father and Lord Yeshua Christ abound in you and your families life.

Everyone and anyone can die at anytime... It doesn't change anything if you are taken by surprise.

 

[JacksBratt]

The Messiah's death on the cross took away the sin of the world for every single person who ever lived. That is why at the great white throne judgment unbelievers are judged for their works and not their sins (they have been paid for). But they (the unbelievers) are where they are ( getting ready to be judged for their works) because they never trusted in The Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life. So the only place for a person lacking eternal life is the lake of fire.

The Messiah does not say here in John 5:39,40 to go to the cross for eternal life. But to come to Him (The Messiah) for eternal life.

The cross is again one of the miracles/signs (8) listed, in the Gospel of John (John 20:30,31) that should point a person to The Messiah. And show that He was, who He said He was, The promised Messiah from the Tanakh. So then the unbeliever may look to and trust in the Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

The question is many believe that Jesus died on the cross, but have they trusted in The Messiah for life.

I understand what you are saying..

However, IMO, the cross is where the messiah did pay the dept of every human that ever lived... Kinda like buying enough life jackets for everyone on the boat... Some believe and put the life jacket on.. Others deny and leave it hanging on the hook... When we die.. we fall overboard..sink or float.

The Great White Throne judgement is where those who denied and did not believe are simply shown, in a righteous court, the solid proof of their fate.

 

[Dave L]

I debated about posting this but I'm just curious,.. am I the only Christian on here who believes that through the sacrifice of Christ unbelievers can still be saved after they're judged? Or are there others on here as well? (Please don't try and get me to change my views because it isn't going to work and that's not what this thread is about.)

Billy Graham On Whether Jews And Muslims Are Saved Because They Believe In The God Of Abraham
The question has come up often on my Bible Crossfire radio program – “Will Jews and Muslims and those of other non-Christian religions be saved even though they don’t believe in Jesus?” Evidently Billy Graham thought so. Notice these two quotes from him:

· Whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts they need something that they don’t have and they turn to the only light they have and I think they’re saved and they’re going to be with us in heaven. (interview with Robert Schuller, 5-31-1997)

· I used to believe that pagans in far-off countries were lost — were going to h-e-l-l — if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. … I believe that there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God—through nature, for instance—and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying ‘yes’ to God. (McCall’s magazine, Jan 1978)

Myself? I believe it is possible those never exposed to Christ can be born again and end up in heaven. But these will accept Christ as God when confronted with him. The Jews who are familiar with him and reject him remain lost.

 

[d taylor]

I understand what you are saying..

However, IMO, the cross is where the messiah did pay the dept of every human that ever lived... Kinda like buying enough life jackets for everyone on the boat... Some believe and put the life jacket on.. Others deny and leave it hanging on the hook... When we die.. we fall overboard..sink or float.

The Great White Throne judgement is where those who denied and did not believe are simply shown, in a righteous court, the solid proof of their fate.

I look at like this if a person (who never hearing of God etc..) on an island found a piece of paper (say a page from a Bible) not mentioning the death on the cross and this person only reading this and never again (the rest of their life) knowing more than what they read on this piece of paper. Do they know enough to receive eternal life. I say yes they do and if they trust in Jesus for eternal life they will have it.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Or a part like this.

Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Or even as little as this
But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I debated about posting this but I'm just curious,.. am I the only Christian on here who believes that through the sacrifice of Christ unbelievers can still be saved after they're judged? Or are there others on here as well? (Please don't try and get me to change my views because it isn't going to work and that's not what this thread is about.)

I don't believe it. But lots of people believe that sort of thing, it is called various things like Universal Reconciliation or Universal Salvation, Origenism etc. Their are a number of problems with it. It seems very reasonable, and that is often the biggest argument for it. Because other related religions have also gone this route like Judaism and Islam.


Besides the various passages of the Bible that seem to go against it, really the biggest one is Satan and the demons. If this is true, why aren't they repenting, or given any chance to repent? Because they seem stuck in their state of rebellion and hard hardheartedness and opposition against God....

 

[Norbert L]

I debated about posting this but I'm just curious,.. am I the only Christian on here who believes that through the sacrifice of Christ unbelievers can still be saved after they're judged? Or are there others on here as well? (Please don't try and get me to change my views because it isn't going to work and that's not what this thread is about.)

Yes and no. It would be nice if 1 Peter 4:18 explicitly mentioned where unbelievers will appear. My hunch it may have something to do with the Great White Throne judgement Revelation 20:5,11.

Basically this question you bring up is above my pay grade, similar to the story about Jethro's advice to Moses in Exodus 13:13-23. Personally I haven't heard a satisfactory explanation either way, there still are hidden things about God even today Romans 11:33.

 

[JacksBratt]

I look at like this if a person (who never hearing of God etc..) on an island found a piece of paper (say a page from a Bible) not mentioning the death on the cross and this person only reading this and never again (the rest of their life) knowing more than what they read on this piece of paper. Do they know enough to receive eternal life. I say yes they do and if they trust in Jesus for eternal life they will have it.

I think that we can agree that Christ's death on the cross was absolutely necessary for even one to be saved... Right?

So, for whatever reason a person is judged by God to be the recipient of eternal life.. .it would not have been possible without the cross. Right?

So, going to your example of a person on an island who found a single page of the bible. I agree, they will have a chance at eternal life.. However, they would still have a chance at eternal life without the page of the bible.

I always go to this scripture:

Romans 1:19-20
19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them.


20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

I take this to mean that no matter who you are or what you have been taught, read or experienced, from the scriptures... God has enough proof out there in the world and written on your DNA (the knowledge of right and wrong) That you will be without excuse, when you stand before Him.

Basically, you can know enough about this world to be judged, in God's presence, as to whether you believed in His existence.. You will have no excuse when He brings the highest of high righteous judgement.

How that works... I don't know.. God knows the heart of men.. not us.

I do know, however, that if you are found worthy... it will not be for any reason of what you do after your death..

I believe whole heatedly that once your heart stops and you breath your last... your attitude and beliefs and life.... are sealed. You've basically handed in your test paper to the teacher... Submitted your resume to the employer..... There is no more changes.. no more editing... no more alterations to what you have done...

You stand guilty.... as we all will.. Guilty as charged...

Only then will they decide if you are covered by the blood and for whatever the reason.. found righteous in their eyes.

 

[JacksBratt]

I look at like this if a person (who never hearing of God etc..) on an island found a piece of paper (say a page from a Bible) not mentioning the death on the cross and this person only reading this and never again (the rest of their life) knowing more than what they read on this piece of paper. Do they know enough to receive eternal life. I say yes they do and if they trust in Jesus for eternal life they will have it.

No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Or a part like this.

Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.” Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Or even as little as this
But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

These are great scriptures and they do tend to be perfect answers to another question posted on this thread.

However, pertaining to a chance for salvation... after death..... I can't see it. Not in these passages and not in any biblical text.

The general and accepted concept, which I believe to be solid truth is... You live, you die, you're judged.

Another scripture of support for this is found here:

Hebrews 9:27


27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment,

 

[Francis Drake]

Talk for yourself!

Oh I do I do!
Thankfully I don't have to pay for my sins, Christ did that for me.

 

[Cis.jd]

As shown through out history, believing in Jesus doesn't make you a good person. In fact, there are a handful of christians who lived lives that where much more closer to evil than a person who wasn't a christian.

Some christians do not realize that their beliefs in regards to salvation is just their egos. "I believe, so I'm better than you, God is on my side... so you are going to the bad place while I am not"... is the truth behind their "faith".

 

[JacksBratt]

As shown through out history, believing in Jesus doesn't make you a good person. In fact, there are a handful of christians who lived lives that where much more closer to evil than a person who wasn't a christian.

Some christians do not realize that their beliefs in regards to salvation is just their egos. "I believe, so I'm better than you, God is on my side... so you are going to the bad place while I am not"... is the truth behind their "faith".

Salvation has nothing to do with "being a good person".

You can be the nicest little ole lady.. baking cookies for all the kids and knitting nice little hats for new born babies.

However..tells the youth pastor to take a hike "you and your god, and your brainwashed little hooligans".... when they ask for a donation for the youth ministry trip....says that there is no God and if there was..... she's good enough and if God doesn't think so then she doesn't care..

Well......... no salvation.

You could also be some grumpy, miserable, crouchity, loner of a man... who still prays every day to Christ to help him make it through the day, help him with his anger.... and for his kids that disowned him as well as his wife.. Who sits at the back of the church and never sings....

And.. you will see that man in paradise.. with whatever demons bound him gone and a smile a mile wide for anyone who he meets.

 

[d taylor]

These are great scriptures and they do tend to be perfect answers to another question posted on this thread.

However, pertaining to a chance for salvation... after death..... I can't see it. Not in these passages and not in any biblical text.

The general and accepted concept, which I believe to be solid truth is... You live, you die, you're judged.

Another scripture of support for this is found here:

Hebrews 9:27


27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment,

I agree once a person ends their earthly life, their eternity is set.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Cis.jd]

Salvation has nothing to do with "being a good person".

You can be the nicest little ole lady.. baking cookies for all the kids and knitting nice little hats for new born babies.

However..tells the youth pastor to take a hike "you and your god, and your brainwashed little hooligans".... when they ask for a donation for the youth ministry trip....says that there is no God and if there was..... she's good enough and if God doesn't think so then she doesn't care..

Well......... no salvation.

Well If the only thing required to be ok in God's eyes is through acknowledging him, then what is the use of morals? I mean, if you edited your paragraph by replacing "God" with someone else it would be a description of someone who is very insecure and conceited.

You could also be some grumpy, miserable, crouchity, loner of a man... who still prays every day to Christ to help him make it through the day, help him with his anger.... and for his kids that disowned him as well as his wife.. Who sits at the back of the church and never sings....

And.. you will see that man in paradise.. with whatever demons bound him gone and a smile a mile wide for anyone who he meets.

This is not an example of a bad person, this is a description of someone who is flawed. The presence of regret is a sign of a good person who made mistakes in his life that he wishes he never did.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Does everybody have to have a reason to believe the way they do? Maybe it's just because they believe it.

Yes they do have a reason. We don't just pluck beliefs out of the air, otherwise contradictory doctrines would appear all over the place.

You are not going to get people to agree with your beliefs if you have no reasoning behind it.

 

[d taylor]

I think that we can agree that Christ's death on the cross was absolutely necessary for even one to be saved... Right?

So, for whatever reason a person is judged by God to be the recipient of eternal life.. .it would not have been possible without the cross. Right?

So, going to your example of a person on an island who found a single page of the bible. I agree, they will have a chance at eternal life.. However, they would still have a chance at eternal life without the page of the bible.

I always go to this scripture:

Romans 1:19-20
19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them.


20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

I take this to mean that no matter who you are or what you have been taught, read or experienced, from the scriptures... God has enough proof out there in the world and written on your DNA (the knowledge of right and wrong) That you will be without excuse, when you stand before Him.

Basically, you can know enough about this world to be judged, in God's presence, as to whether you believed in His existence.. You will have no excuse when He brings the highest of high righteous judgement.

How that works... I don't know.. God knows the heart of men.. not us.

I do know, however, that if you are found worthy... it will not be for any reason of what you do after your death..

I believe whole heatedly that once your heart stops and you breath your last... your attitude and beliefs and life.... are sealed. You've basically handed in your test paper to the teacher... Submitted your resume to the employer..... There is no more changes.. no more editing... no more alterations to what you have done...

You stand guilty.... as we all will.. Guilty as charged...

Only then will they decide if you are covered by the blood and for whatever the reason.. found righteous in their eyes.

Yes the death (Christ) was the payment for blood God chose when Adam and Eve sinned. And this Jesus and His death took away the sin of the world (everyone who has lived), that is why people are judged at the great white throne, for their works. And that is also why they will be headed for the lake of fire, not because of theirs sins. But because they never received the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

But really my contention is against, the ones who say after Christ death and resurrection the way of salvation changed. That a person has to believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose three days later. Using 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 as the Gospel that saves now.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Yes the death (Christ) was the payment for blood God chose when Adam and Eve sinned. And this Jesus and His death took away the sin of the world (everyone who has lived), that is why people are judged at the great white throne, for their works. And that is also why they will be headed for the lake of fire, not because of theirs sins. But because they never received the free gift of Gods Eternal Life.

But really my contention is against, the ones who say after Christ death and resurrection the way of salvation changed. That a person has to believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose three days later. Using 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 as the Gospel that saves now.

The OT looks forward to Christ and the NT looks back on the life of Christ. Salvation has never changed its always been faith in the LORD that saves. And Christ is that LORD.

The entire OT sacrificial system pointed forward to Christ and the NT looks back on His sacrifice and all its fulfillment in the OT.

Read the book of Hebrews.

hope this helps !!!