Am I reading this right?

[God_of_Mercy]

From:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.

So I don't have salvation?

 

[kimber1]

do you 100% know that everything the Church teaches is true yet reject it?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

From:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp
So I don't have salvation?

Unam Sanctam Promulgated November 18, 1302


Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the

Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in

her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her

there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the

Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove,

my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore

her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is

Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is

one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at

the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one

Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had

only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside

of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.





We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the

mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword

and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has

prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this

body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of

the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of

the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the

seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot

[Jn 19:23- 24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is

one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is,

Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter,

since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep'

[Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those

in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him

[Peter].

Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they

are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must

confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in

John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are

informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its

power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal.

For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk

22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were

speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but

sufficient.

Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword

is in the power of Peter ha s not listened well to the word of the

Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt

26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is

to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to

be administered _for_ the Church but the latter_by_ the Church;

the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of

kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.



However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and

temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the

Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the

things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they

would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to

the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led

upwards by the other.





For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the

divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by

intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all

things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the

lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior.

Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power

surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power

whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see

very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration

of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the

government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it

belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and

to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished

the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the

ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over

nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the

terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but

if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior

spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be

judged only by God, and not by man, according to the

testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things

and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This

authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is

exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to

Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his

successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying

to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be

bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19].

Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2] , unless he invent like Manicheus two

beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since

according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings

but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen

1:1].

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is

absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be

subject to the Roman Pontiff.



There it is...


.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Sounds like they are putting faith in the Church rather than Jesus Christ.

 

[Isaiah 53]

From:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp



So I don't have salvation?

If you were Catholic, and understood the teachings of the Catholic Church, then voluntarily seperate yourself...then Salvation is not possible.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[kimber1]

Sounds like they are putting faith in the Church rather than Jesus Christ.

wrong

 

[God_of_Mercy]

If you were Catholic, and understood the teachings of the Catholic Church, then voluntarily seperate yourself...then Salvation is not possible.

PAX CHRISTI

Why does it matter what Church I belong to as long as I believe in Jesus?

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Unam Sanctam Promulgated November 18, 1302


Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the

Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in

her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her

there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the

Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove,

my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore

her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is

Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is

one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at

the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one

Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had

only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside

of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.





We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the

mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword

and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has

prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this

body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of

the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of

the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the

seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot

[Jn 19:23- 24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is

one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is,

Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter,

since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep'

[Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those

in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him

[Peter].

Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they

are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must

confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in

John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are

informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its

power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal.

For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk

22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were

speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but

sufficient.

Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword

is in the power of Peter ha s not listened well to the word of the

Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt

26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is

to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to

be administered _for_ the Church but the latter_by_ the Church;

the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of

kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.



However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and

temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the

Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the

things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they

would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to

the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led

upwards by the other.





For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the

divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by

intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all

things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the

lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior.

Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power

surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power

whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see

very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration

of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the

government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it

belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and

to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished

the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the

ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over

nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the

terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but

if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior

spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be

judged only by God, and not by man, according to the

testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things

and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This

authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is

exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to

Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his

successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying

to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be

bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19].

Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2] , unless he invent like Manicheus two

beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since

according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings

but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen

1:1].

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is

absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be

subject to the Roman Pontiff.



There it is...


.

I started to post that yesterday on another thread when a RC claimed that Roman Catholics never condemn anyone to hell.

The last one;

Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is

absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be

subject to the Roman Pontiff.


is especially arrogant and anti-Biblical.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Why does it matter what Church I belong to as long as I believe in Jesus?

The Catholic Church is Christ's Church...to KNOWINGLY reject her is to reject Christ. Those, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Church and her teachings are not bound by Unam Sanctam...those of us that are fully aware of the Church would be damned.

In other words, if I decided to leave the Church, knowing what I know, I would be damning myself.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Why does it matter what Church I belong to as long as I believe in Jesus?

Well, you don't want to belong to the Mormon church or Jehovah's Witness or other such cults who have the wrong Jesus, or any other church that preaches and teaches a different Gospel or a different Jesus.

But otherwise, it doesn't matter. There is One Holy Catholic Church which is comprised of genuine believers in Christ Jesus, who trust His Atonement exclusively as the full payment for the debt we owe God for sin, no matter what denomination they are found in.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

The Catholic Church is Christ's Church...to KNOWINGLY reject her is to reject Christ. Those, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Church and her teachings are not bound by Unam Sanctam...those of us that are fully aware of the Church would be damned.

In other words, if I decided to leave the Church, knowing what I know, I would be damning myself.

PAX CHRISTI

But the Roman Catholic church is NOT THE representative of Christ's Church.

 

[Isaiah 53]

But the Roman Catholic church is NOT THE representative of Christ's Church.

Whom then would be?

PAX CHRISTI

 

[JimfromOhio]

Is there anywhere in the Bible (other than the Rock) that place RCC the authority of the Christian Church? I didn't find any and everything is pointing to Jesus Christ regardless of denomination. I praise God for His Holy Bible. God wanted to speak up and we are to follow The Word of God rather than Traditions of the so called "Church" of Christianity.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Is there anywhere in the Bible (other than the Rock) that place RCC the authority of the Christian Church? I didn't find any and everything is pointing to Jesus Christ regardless of denomination. I praise God for His Holy Bible. God wanted to speak up and we are to follow The Word of God rather than Traditions of the so called "Church" of Christianity.

Jim,

We have been through this a thousand times on this forum, in the end we are going to have to agree to disagree. This is a prime example of not fully knowing/understanding Church teachings, and would free you from decree of Unam Sanctam (US) which was my point to begin with.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[tomwhodson]

would our father who art in heaven truly cast those who believe in him into hell for eternal damnation because they are not catholic. Or would he send them to hell because they rejected christ. verily our all loving father could not do such a thing. let all whom believe in jesus christ be saved. let there be not buts and no ifs. let all whom believe in jesus christ be saved

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim,

We have been through this a thousand times on this forum, in the end we are going to have to agree to disagree. This is a prime example of not fully knowing/understanding Church teachings, and would free you from decree of Unam Sanctam (US) which was my point to begin with.

PAX CHRISTI

Which translates that no one can't. What is the point of discussing which denomination is a true physical Church since its physical view rather than spiritual view. John 4:23-24 (New International Version) Jesus said:Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

 

[Isaiah 53]

Which translates that no one can't. What is the point of discussing which denomination is a true physical Church since its physical view rather than spiritual view. John 4:23-24 (New International Version) Jesus said:Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

I am afraid I dont understand your point...can I argue a case for the Catholic Church being the Church Christ founded...sure I can, but that is not the point of this thread (not to mention it has been beaten to death). The OP asked if they were reading (US) correctly....I clarified.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Sounds like they are putting faith in the Church rather than Jesus Christ.

Sadly, there are some Christians in the Roman Catholic Denomination that have gotten the impression that there is essentially no difference...

The Catholic Church is Christ's Church...to knowingly reject her is to reject Christ.

The reverse is sometimes spoken, too...


In any case, Unam Sanctum stands...
And it certainly applies to all Protestants, Orthodox, etc.
Yes, many of whom see it as egotistical and divisive.


My $0.01


- Josiah


.

 

[Isaiah 53]

In any case, Unam Sanctum stands...

And it certainly applies to all Protestants, Orthodox, etc.
Yes, many of whom see it as egotistical and divisive.


My $0.01


- Josiah


.

Yes, Unam Sanctum does stand, but it applies ONLY to those who have full knowledge and knowingly reject/leave the Catholic Church. It does not apply to those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Church and reject them by default.

PAX CHRISTI

 

[JimfromOhio]

I am afraid I dont understand your point...can I argue a case for the Catholic Church being the Church Christ founded...sure I can, but that is not the point of this thread (not to mention it has been beaten to death). The OP asked if they were reading (US) correctly....I clarified.

PAX CHRISTI

That statement tells me that people are still serving "physical" church rather than spiritual church. Why people are not seeing spiritual? Does that mean that person is spiritually blind because they are basing every faith on physical belonging and physical works?