Altar Calls - Yes/No Good/Bad

[bbbbbbb]

Indeed, I'd even say that any problem I might have with the standard Evangelical notion of the "altar call" isn't really that it's a 19th century American innovation, but rather where I'd take issue is with the inherent theology behind the innovation. The tradition of the altar call promulgates Decision Theology, which is bad theology as it shifts the locus of salvation from the all-efficacious work of Christ on the cross to the power of man's will. The seat of salvation is no longer the Cross, but man.

-CryptoLutheran

Well said.

 

[weariedsoul]

Well said.

Do you think its wrong to call people to repent, or to confess faults?

 

[christseeker45]

Dude you have countless prople tell you it is not found in the Bible and you fight against that, how am I suppose to take you. I don't give a poo what Grahram did and God can use that but the long and short of it is that the altar call has never been in the Bible and you act as if you know the Bible

 

[weariedsoul]

Dude you have countless prople tell you it is not found in the Bible and you fight against that, how am I suppose to take you. I don't give a poo what Grahram did and God can use that but the long and short of it is that the altar call has never been in the Bible and you act as if you know the Bible

Is it just the word alter that you disagree with or it it also the act of calling a person to repent?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Do you think its wrong to call people to repent, or to confess faults?

Biblical repentance (metanoia) literally means to change one's mind - meta (change) noia (mind). It primarily means to change one's mind regarding Jesus Christ and, principally, His resurrection. The biblical gospel is all about Jesus Christ and His resurrection. It is not about repenting of your sins and determining to clean your life up to God's expectations. In conversion God, through the person of the Holy Spirit, does change the person, but that is God's work, not ours.

In conversion we sees ourselves as God sees us - hopelessly lost in sin and without God, needing a pure work of grace. In a false conversion one is led to think that he must do something (good works, religious acts, reformation of one's life, forsaking sin, etc.) to be able to be saved. It is then that God is not the Savior of the sinner, but the sinner is attempting to save himself. Such efforts are doomed to failure.

 

[weariedsoul]

Biblical repentance (metanoia) literally means to change one's mind - meta (change) noia (mind). It primarily means to change one's mind regarding Jesus Christ and, principally, His resurrection. The biblical gospel is all about Jesus Christ and His resurrection. It is not about repenting of your sins and determining to clean your life up to God's expectations. In conversion God, through the person of the Holy Spirit, does change the person, but that is God's work, not ours.

In conversion we sees ourselves as God sees us - hopelessly lost in sin and without God, needing a pure work of grace. In a false conversion one is led to think that he must do something (good works, religious acts, reformation of one's life, forsaking sin, etc.) to be able to be saved. It is then that God is not the Savior of the sinner, but the sinner is attempting to save himself. Such efforts are doomed to failure.

Yes but the question is, is it wrong to call others to repent?

 

[christseeker45]

what bbbbbbb said. To much in altar calls people respond on emotion not because God calls them and they wonder away and people wonder what went wrong. Peter never did an alter call the 3000 ask him what they must do. There is not one "altar call" in the Bible.

 

[weariedsoul]

what bbbbbbb said. To much in altar calls people respond on emotion not because God calls them and they wonder away and people wonder what went wrong. Peter never did an alter call the 3000 ask him what they must do. There is not one "altar call" in the Bible.

I respond to things everyday in emotion, God gave us emotions, its natural to be overcome in emotion when thinking about the Lord. You seem apposed to the word alter, yet what is being called an alter call is nothing but exhortation to repent.

 

[christseeker45]

No I am oppsed to very bad theology.

 

[weariedsoul]

Im sure i am not making any friends, nothing else is new.

Maybe you guys dont like the way i do things, join the club guys, i don't either half the time. But i try to do right. I would be better off not coming to GT, i dont make friends here.

But im not wrong here. Billy Graham was a good evangelist.

 

[weariedsoul]

No I am oppsed to very bad theology.

You are apposed to a word, thats all.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Calling people to repentance isn't the problem.

Placing the emphasis on human will and human activity is the problem.

Scripture says we are dead in our sins. A corpse cannot will itself back to life, the only way a dead person can live is by a supernatural work of God. Lazarus didn't get up and walk out of the tomb by his own strength and power, rather, Christ called out to him and raised him from the dead.

Faith is given to us by God, it's a gift. Nobody can have faith unless God gives them faith. The word must go out and accomplish its goal:

"Faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." - Romans 10:17

It is the Word, Christ's Word, that goes out and comes to us, we who are dead and in the tomb of sin and death, and by its life-giving power raises us to life. This is why we can speak of God's Means of Grace, the Word and Sacraments. In Baptism the Word comes to us, and we are really rinsed and cleansed by the Word which is with the water, and where we were formerly dead and paralyzed by sin--strangers and enemies of God--we are now children and heirs of promise by this adoption of grace.

We didn't do it. God did it, it is God alone who saves.

Christ, who conquered Sin and Death, Tomb, Hell and Devil, this Jesus Christ alone has the power over death, the keys by which to free the captives. And it is His work on the cross, His resurrection power, and the Gospel Word He proclaims to us which does what He sets it out to do. When God speaks it is never in vain.

It was this Word that saved a dying thief on the cross. It was this Word that brought Lazarus back to life. It is this Word that we hear in the proclaiming of the Gospel, both audibly in preaching and tangibly in the Sacraments, that is efficacious and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword. And this Word brings the dead to life. This Word freely justifies the sinner, reconciling them to God. This Word can do all these things because of the One who speaks it.

But none of our words can do a thing. None of our thoughts, our actions, our ideas. Our most noblest words, our most loft of works, these are like filthy rags and can do nothing to improve our station or status with God.

And the good news is that God doesn't stand high above waiting for us to come to Him. The good news is that God is pro-active, coming down to us. God comes down, God always comes down. God is always the one coming to man, to save him, to love him, to repair what is broken and redeem what is lost. Time and again, throughout all Scripture, it is God who comes down, not man who goes up. Time and again when man tries to go up, he fails--for it is impossible with man, but with God all things are possible.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Willie T]

what bbbbbbb said. To much in altar calls people respond on emotion not because God calls them and they wonder away and people wonder what went wrong. Peter never did an alter call the 3000 ask him what they must do. There is not one "altar call" in the Bible.

Well, actually verse 40 of the second chapter of Acts comes about as close as you are likely to find, without trying to locate those exact words.... which, of course, don't exist.

Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”(BC) 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number(BD) that day.

 

[weariedsoul]

Calling people to repentance isn't the problem.

Placing the emphasis on human will and human activity is the problem.

Scripture says we are dead in our sins. A corpse cannot will itself back to life, the only way a dead person can live is by a supernatural work of God. Lazarus didn't get up and walk out of the tomb by his own strength and power, rather, Christ called out to him and raised him from the dead.

Faith is given to us by God, it's a gift. Nobody can have faith unless God gives them faith. The word must go out and accomplish its goal:

"Faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." - Romans 10:17

It is the Word, Christ's Word, that goes out and comes to us, we who are dead and in the tomb of sin and death, and by its life-giving power raises us to life. This is why we can speak of God's Means of Grace, the Word and Sacraments. In Baptism the Word comes to us, and we are really rinsed and cleansed by the Word which is with the water, and where we were formerly dead and paralyzed by sin--strangers and enemies of God--we are now children and heirs of promise by this adoption of grace.

We didn't do it. God did it, it is God alone who saves.

Christ, who conquered Sin and Death, Tomb, Hell and Devil, this Jesus Christ alone has the power over death, the keys by which to free the captives. And it is His work on the cross, His resurrection power, and the Gospel Word He proclaims to us which does what He sets it out to do. When God speaks it is never in vain.

It was this Word that saved a dying thief on the cross. It was this Word that brought Lazarus back to life. It is this Word that we hear in the proclaiming of the Gospel, both audibly in preaching and tangibly in the Sacraments, that is efficacious and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword. And this Word brings the dead to life. This Word freely justifies the sinner, reconciling them to God. This Word can do all these things because of the One who speaks it.

But none of our words can do a thing. None of our thoughts, our actions, our ideas. Our most noblest words, our most loft of works, these are like filthy rags and can do nothing to improve our station or status with God.

And the good news is that God doesn't stand high above waiting for us to come to Him. The good news is that God is pro-active, coming down to us. God comes down, God always comes down. God is always the one coming to man, to save him, to love him, to repair what is broken and redeem what is lost. Time and again, throughout all Scripture, it is God who comes down, not man who goes up. Time and again when man tries to go up, he fails--for it is impossible with man, but with God all things are possible.

-CryptoLutheran

Billy Graham preached the gospel.


Born Again (1979) by Dr.Billy Graham - YouTube

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, actually verse 40 of the second chapter of Acts comes about as close as you are likely to find, without trying to locate those exact words.... which, of course, don't exist.

Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”(BC) 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number(BD) that day.

Did Peter call on them to change themselves in order to be found right with God?

That isn't what we read. We read that Peter proclaimed the Word, and because of that, three thousand persons were baptized and became added to the Church.

Where we place the emphasis makes all the difference. The emphasis isn't on "accepted his message", as though three thousand sinners were suddenly, under their own power, to convert themselves. Rather, something real and objective took place. There was a supernatural work of God, not one of emotional manipulation, but of real substance: The Word was preached, three thousand sinners were called by God and through Baptism were added to the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[christseeker45]

Im sure i am not making any friends, nothing else is new.

Maybe you guys dont like the way i do things, join the club guys, i don't either half the time. But i try to do right. I would be better off not coming to GT, i dont make friends here.

But im not wrong here. Billy Graham was a good evangelist.

I agree Rev. Graham is a good evangelist (still alive ). That doesn't his methods were always good but God can use anything, when I was in college many work on teams that counseled people after and we saw a lot of false conversions because they got swept up in the emotion and the statics were not always great for a few weeks out from the meetings.

The theology behind the altar call is man driven and was started in America. No one needs an altar call to receive Christ just a call from God. CS Lewis never went to a modern altar call, he got on the bus an atheist and got off a Christian.

You say you go by the Gospel, but yet you are willing to defend something not found anywhere in it.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Billy Graham preached the gospel.

I don't believe anyone here has said otherwise.

Repeating this statement doesn't actually address any of the points made in regard to the overarching theology involved.

Those who were saved at Graham's crusades were not saved because they went up to an altar and said a magic prayer. They were saved because God saved them, something objective and real took place long before they took some step up to an aisle--a superfluous and meaningless thing. The invasion of grace through the preaching of the Gospel is no small thing, and it happens even when bad theology happens.

God is not limited by our having our theology right, He will move and act as He sees fit. When the Word is preached, something happens. And it's all God, none of it is us.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Willie T]

Did Peter call on them to change themselves in order to be found right with God?

That isn't what we read. We read that Peter proclaimed the Word, and because of that, three thousand persons were baptized and became added to the Church.

Where we place the emphasis makes all the difference. The emphasis isn't on "accepted his message", as though three thousand sinners were suddenly, under their own power, to convert themselves. Rather, something real and objective took place. There was a supernatural work of God, not one of emotional manipulation, but of real substance: The Word was preached, three thousand sinners were called by God and through Baptism were added to the Church.

-CryptoLutheran

You DID read about how he used MANY OTHER WORDS to WARN THEM.... and HE PLEADED WITH THEM TO SAVE THEMSELVES, didn't you?

I don't think you could have missed that. Do today's preachers do much different? Other than showing you the actual words "Alter Call", I don't know what else to present.

And those words are on the same page that has the word Eucharist..... (I think it must have gotten torn out at sometime...... I can't locate either term.)

 

[weariedsoul]

I don't believe anyone here has said otherwise.

Repeating this statement doesn't actually address any of the points made in regard to the overarching theology involved.

Those who were saved at Graham's crusades were not saved because they went up to an altar and said a magic prayer. They were saved because God saved them, something objective and real took place long before they took some step up to an aisle--a superfluous and meaningless thing. The invasion of grace through the preaching of the Gospel is no small thing, and it happens even when bad theology happens.

God is not limited by our having our theology right, He will move and act as He sees fit. When the Word is preached, something happens. And it's all God, none of it is us.

-CryptoLutheran

Is it not the call to repentance that was the issue? Wasn't billy Graham accused of evangelizing incorrectly? What did he do wrong in the video i posted?

 

[weariedsoul]

lol, GT is challenging to say the least.