Allah

[Fireinfolding]

It's a common misconception that the Arabic name Allah corresponds to the English word God, when in fact, throughout the Koran (one of the oldest known pieces of Arabic literature, and was originally written in it's Paleo-Arabic form) the Arabic Allah is always, 100% of the time, used as a name.

Now, God, in English, isn't a name - It's a title.

Just like Lord is a title, not a name.

The koran uses the arabic word ilah as the corresponding title to our English word God, and therefore the corresponding title to the Spanish dios and so on and so forth.

That is proven by the Koran quotes I have posted in a previous post.

A few months ago, some Muslims started a topic in the non-christian section of the forum stating as such - Allah is a name, not a word meaning "God" - bu tunfortunately, like many topics in that forum, it was locked and deleted.

Im getting lost... ILAH corresponds to ~our English~ "WORD" GOD (I get God and Lord are "titles" and NOT names) Yet ALLAH is ~A NAME~ but it MEANS GOD? But its A NAME and NOT a TITLE here?

Oh man I'm losing it, so GOD (ALLAH) here can be a NAME for GOD (which is a TITLE in our English?)

MAN I got to let that SINK IN Thats hard to wrap ones brrain around lol

Peace

Thanks

Fireinfolding

 

[S Walch]

Im getting lost... ILAH corresponds to ~our English~ "WORD" GOD (I get God and Lord are "titles" and NOT names) Yet ALLAH is ~A NAME~ but it MEANS GOD? But its A NAME and NOT a TITLE here?

Oh man I'm losing it, so GOD (ALLAH) here can be a NAME for GOD (which is a TITLE in our English?)

MAN I got to let that SINK IN Thats hard to wrap ones brrain around lol

Peace

Thanks

Fireinfolding

Almost there - Allah, as far as anyone can actually tell, doesn't mean "God" - it's apparently a contraction of il and ilah (il = the, ilah = God), so Allah could mean "the God" but never just "god". But no one as of yet has been able to provide any evidence that Allah is indeed a contraction of il and ilah.

That is reserved only for the Arabic ilah (or ilaah, differen't way of transliterating it) which corresponds to our English god/God.

That make sense?

 

[INRI2]

So Muslims are saved? Without believing in the Messiah? That's not a real good thing, is it?

My thought is that the RCC doesn't have a real good handle on the objectives of Islam.

The day is not yet over, do not pass judgment on those who God has yet to judge.

When those hired about five o’clock came, each of them received the usual daily wage. 10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received the usual daily wage. 11 And when they received it, they grumbled against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ 13 But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage? 14 Take what belongs to you and go; I choose to give to this last the same as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

 

[Fireinfolding]

ilah and not Allah as the Arabic word/title for God.

Another question... do the two words SOUND the same?


I ask because Aramic "believers" in Christ (in their native tongue) would then bless "Ilah" for Christ (which we might HEAR as "Allah" but it is REALLY ILAH?


That would be good to know, you think?


Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[S Walch]

My thought is that the RCC doesn't have a real good handle on the objectives of Islam.

Agreed, ContentInHim.

Another question... do the two words SOUND the same?

They indeed do sound quite similar - ilah = ill -ahh. Allah = Al (as in Alfred) - ahh, so there could be some accent issues.

But I would say that Arab Christians saying "Allah" is more of a culture thing - Just like we English people use the LORD and God instinctively when refering to God.

But that doesn't mean to say that God is a name, or that Allah is a title.

God = title.

Allah = name.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Almost there - Allah, as far as anyone can actually tell, doesn't mean "God" - it's apparently a contraction of il and ilah (il = the, ilah = God), so Allah could mean "the God" but never just "god". But no one as of yet has been able to provide any evidence that Allah is indeed a contraction of il and ilah.

That is reserved only for the Arabic ilah (or ilaah, differen't way of transliterating it) which corresponds to our English god/God.

That make sense?

Hi. I think you are right and how one Muslim explained it to me.
FOr example God in our NT is often times used with or without an article but for some reason, translations just do not use the "the" in front of it. Thoughts?

Revelation 11:1 And there was given to me a reed like to a rod, saying, `Rise, and measure the sanctuary of the God, and the altar, and those worshipping in it;

ton <3588> {THE} naon <3485> tou <3588> {OF THE} qeou <2316> {OF GOD,}

 

[S Walch]

Hi. I think you are right and how one Muslim explained it to me.
For example God in our NT is often times used with or without an article but for some reason, translations just do not use the "the" in front of it. Thoughts?

Revelation 11:1 And there was given to me a reed like to a rod, saying, `Rise, and measure the sanctuary of the God, and the altar, and those worshipping in it;

ton <3588> {THE} naon <3485> tou <3588> {OF THE} qeou <2316> {OF GOD,}

Ahh, Greek is an awesome language.

The use of the definite article is all to do with cases and how the word is used in the text.

When the Greek says "Ho Theos" (The God)- that indicates that God is the subject, and therefore God is doing/saying/seeing etc something, so God is therefore the subject of the sentece when it is spelt either "Ho Theos" or just "Theos" - the definite article is not always needed.

But of course, we don't say "the God" in English, we just say "God ... ".

When "God" is vocalised "ton theon" - this indicates that God is therefore the object which is influenced by the subject, so, say for example, "Paul said to God.." - God is the object influenced by the Subject - the subject being Paul, who is doing something that affects God - in this sentence, talking to him. But again, we don't say "Paul said to the God" - because that just doesn't make sense with how English is structured.

But then we have the plural forms of both the subject (Hoi) and the object (tous). So, when the greek says "oi theoi" - we translate it as "the gods" - and the gods being the subject of the sentence. But tous theous would therefore indicate that "the gods" are the object influenced by the subject of the sentence.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Agreed, ContentInHim.

[/font]

They indeed do sound quite similar - ilah = ill -ahh. Allah = Al (as in Alfred) - ahh, so there could be some accent issues.

But I would say that Arab Christians saying "Allah" is more of a culture thing - Just like we English people use the LORD and God instinctively when refering to God.

But that doesn't mean to say that God is a name, or that Allah is a title.

God = title.

Allah = name.

Man, thats tough then, so both use this word Muslims and Christian believers but after the like comparisons.

Okay I see what you mean then. I still would not speak against the use of the word "Allah" for offense of Aramic Christians who give "thanks" by the Name of Jesus Christ by "Allah".

I would leave that to someone elses lips to do. Theres always someone "up for THAT job"

Thanks for that bit of information Thanks for the link too.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[sunlover1]

[/font]

Okay this is good to know, because many of the sources did confirm to the contrary as even a member of the theology team seem to confirm the same.

Let me look into this. Thanks for that correction if this be true.

Peace

Fireinfolding

If Swalsh said it, chances are
it's correct.
He's no slouch.

 

[S Walch]

If Swalch said it, chances are it's correct. He's no slouch.

lol, thanks for the compliment sunlover.

Although I doubt that many people would see it that way..

 

[Fireinfolding]

If Swalsh said it, chances are
it's correct.
He's no slouch.

Thanks for the heads up I like good diggers (Thanks Swalsh) Im not good at what other religions teaches. I shouldnt be surprised to find that even THERE are cultural or traditional things practiced that are not as they really ought be I suppose.

Im not involved in their stuff to know their differences in truth verses tradition (practiced)...

HECK (to be honest) I dont get some of "Christianity's" traditions (others of my own faith) try to force on ya let alone others I have enough trouble trying to find some of our own "bases" for such reasonings. And honestly, I'd rather NOT

Thanks to you both

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[sunlover1]

lol, thanks for the compliment sunlover.

Although I doubt that many people would see it that way..

It's just the truth SWalsh,
and it probably finished this
thread.
Don't ya hate it when that
happens?
lol

Thanks for the heads up I like good diggers

My pleasure.

 

[InnocentOdion]

Not another "Allah" thread.

Sorry people, you're wrong. Allah is not the name for God in Aramaic. It's Alaha, or to be more specific, Al&#257;h&#257; (&#1808;&#1824;&#1815;&#1808;), it is cognate to the Arabic word Allah (&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607;), if not the word that Allah developed from in conjunction with al-'&#702;il&#257;h (&#1575;&#1604; &#1573;&#1604;&#1607;) -- (Arabic for "the god").

Allah is used by Muslims, Arab Jews and Arab Christians. It means God. They don't refer to the same God though.

Anyone who says that Muslims worship the same God as the Christians is, I'm afraid, sadly mistaken and would probably be better off as a Muslim. The personality of Allah is, also, different to the God of the Bible.

Allah in the Qur'an is impersonal, one cannot know him, one cannot see him, and he speaks through angels. This is in clear contrast with the Bible. I'm sure I don't need to provide verses.

If an Arab Christian calls God Allah, it's fine. It's just the word for God in their native language.

• Chinese Christians call God Shangdi (amongst more, including Tianzhu)
• Arab Christians: Allah
• French: Dieu
• Spanish: Dios
• Italian: Dio
• German: Gott
• Japanese: Kamisama

All these refer to the same Christian God. Just because a Muslim calls their God the same as an Arab Christian doesn't mean we worship the same God. We just have two religions using the same word for God in one place. It's not the name that matters, it's the deity.

In God's love,
IO

 

[Fireinfolding]

All these refer to the same Christian God. Just because a Muslim calls their God the same as an Arab Christian doesn't mean we worship the same God. We just have two religions using the same word for God in one place. It's not the name that matters, it's the deity.

I hear you, Hitler thought himself to be a Christian, follower and fighter for the Lord. He confessed the "name" Jesus Christ. His quotes (even from the scriptures) speak to His particular quest. In his mind (in Christ name, in WORD only) he did what he did for the Lord (as he so justified). To many its what you SAY regardless of what one DOES. But thats how they see it, many christians and churches were won by "words only" it appears. He was into the PURE race or how he perceived it through his own biblical understanding, how could this "be wrong" (I suppose they asked)

His "concept" formed (even from scripture) was in the "Name of Christ" the Lord. To him this justified his actions to do the things He did. Though, I would regard such as not knowing God (as defined by his actions obviously). But to "some" you got the Lords "Name" your IN no matter what.

Scripture says "no murderer hath "eternal life" (the knowing of God) abiding IN HIM. Here we see actions defining "the life" that was "not" living and manifested in one (although purity was the "proclaimed" objective). If this be so, "eternal life" (the knowing of God) is not a "place out there" but that which "manifests itself" in the heart and life of the believer. This in accordance with the goodness of God (The light) one walks in (love). Those who are "saved" by "this light" they walk by.

Though I wonder if he came up with the idea for crematories (to burn people) was in any way biblically construed (in his own mind). Maybe he felt justified to take it upon himself to start the match for God (in the temporary) Maybe he thought "his heavenly father" (as was his understanding) would keep the eternal ones ablaze on the other side of things, or that he was helping out God.

Some thinking isnt worth the undertaking

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All these refer to the same Christian God. Just because a Muslim calls their God the same as an Arab Christian doesn't mean we worship the same God. We just have two religions using the same word for God in one place. It's not the name that matters, it's the deity.

In God's love,
IO

Interesting and thanks for that.

 

[S Walch]

Not another "Allah" thread.

Sorry people, you're wrong. Allah is not the name for God in Aramaic. It's Alaha, or to be more specific, Al&#257;h&#257; (&#1808;&#1824;&#1815;&#1808;), it is cognate to the Arabic word Allah (&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1607;), if not the word that Allah developed from in conjunction with al-'&#702;il&#257;h (&#1575;&#1604; &#1573;&#1604;&#1607;) -- (Arabic for "the god").

Allah is used by Muslims, Arab Jews and Arab Christians. It means God.

Right, go back and read post numbers #60, #73 and #80 and then tell me why these statements of yours are incorrect in light of the evidence.

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

Right, go back and read post numbers #60, #73 and #80 and then tell me why these statements of yours are incorrect in light of the evidence.

okay- now spend 5 seconds with an Arabic speaking Christian and tell me why everything you've said in this thread is incorrect.

Arabic speaking Christians refer to God as "Allah", which means "The God". You can pretend this is untrue (and you will) and pretend that they're secretly worshipping a pagan god, but you're wrong.

Now I don't know if muslims intend for "Allah" to be a proper name, and frankly it doesn't matter one bit one muslims do or say. The god they worship is jerk, and not the true God that is worshipped by Chrsitians.

But for Arabic speaking Christians, "Allah" means The God. If you ever meet one, just ask them, instead of collecting unrelated nonsense from the internet and pretending that it is somehow 'evidence' of something.

Reader Moses

ps- if you'd like to HEAR an Arabic speaking Christian, click on my sound file.

 

[S Walch]

okay- now spend 5 seconds with an Arabic speaking Christian and tell me why everything you've said in this thread is incorrect.

Arabic speaking Christians refer to God as "Allah", which means "The God".

Please refer to post #85 where I even admit that is what they do.

Now I don't know if muslims intend for "Allah" to be a proper name, and frankly it doesn't matter one bit one muslims do or say. The god they worship is jerk, and not the true God that is worshipped by Chrsitians.

Allah is a personal Name - Even Edward William Lane, the author of the Arabic-English Lexicon says that concerning the word "Allah" that according to the most correct opinions of Arab grammarians, which are more than thirty in number, Allah "is a proper name" - It is not a word/title - which God is.

Ilah is the Arabic word/title for god

But you know, you can ignore dictionaries and lexicons if you so wish, that's not my problem.

The point is, Allah is a NAME - God on the other hand,isn't a name.

Even the Caner brothers - two ex-muslims now Christians - state that Allah is the name of the Islamic God.

Perhaps you might listen to arabic-speaking turks.

Names and titles are two different things.

And culture certainly dictates the vocabulary that a person uses, when refering to anything.

So, as Arab Christians are using "Allah" when refering to the Christian God, but in contrary to the Muslim God - does this mean that them using "Allah" to mean "God" changes Allah from a personal name to a word/title?

Would using "Zeus" to refer to the Christian God change the fact that Zeus is the personal name of a pagan god? Or Jupiter? Or Mithra?

Edit: Also, just to clarify - I never said anything remotely similar to your accusation:

and pretend that they're secretly worshipping a pagan god, but you're wrong.

Not once have I ever stated or implied that at all, and that is pure slander that you have stated against me, when I haven't said anything of the sort.

I expect an apology for that.

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

Swalch, I never expect you to see your own foolishness. When I reply to you, it's for the benefit of others.

Rdr Moses

 

[InnocentOdion]

The Prokeimenon, amen. I stand in 100% agreement with you.

S Walch, I don't understand what you're on about. I just can't understand your way of writing. I'm correct. I have Arab Christian friends, Muslim friends, Arab Jew friends, and I even know 2 Aramaic speaking Christians. I'm also studying linguistics, and this is a field that interests me, so I've checked my sources, asked questions, and read up on it.

Allah is no more a name to the Lord than God. God isn't the name of God. It's a title. Allah is just the word for the one God in Arabic, yet it is sometimes (Muslims vary in opinion) seen as the name of God in Islam. This doesn't mean it is the name of God for Arab Christians, who refer to God as Allah. If I made a religion and I named my God "God", does this mean every Christian who said "Praise God" or "I worship God" was an InnocentOdionite? No.

In God's love,
IO