Allah

[Nadiine]

Hi PB. They indeed worship the True God of Abraham, Isaac/Ishmael and Jacob/Israel.

No, they don't worship the True God becuz Jesus Himself said if they didn't accept HIM, they also weren't excepting the Father & that they weren't OF the Father who sent Him.
There is no worship of one without the other. They THINK they worship the true God, they don't in fact becuz they missed their Messiah foretold.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Hi PB. They indeed worship the True God of Abraham, Isaac/Ishmael and Jacob/Israel.

No, they don't worship the True God becuz Jesus Himself said if they didn't accept HIM, they also weren't excepting the Father & that they weren't OF the Father who sent Him.
There is no worship of one without the other.They THINK they worship the true God, they don't in fact becuz they missed their Messiah foretold.

So do the "Jews", and they give the same exact reasons as the "Jews" do for the Messiah not being Crucified/Resurrected.

The Muslims also believe JESUS is coming back to turn the world to ISLAM. LOL.


Exodus 7:1 And YHWH saith unto Moses, `See, I have given thee as Elohiym to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;

Matthew 26:57 And those laying hold on Jesus led [him] away unto Caiaphas the chief priest, where the scribes and the elders were gathered together

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/lazarus.htm

CONCLUSION

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream ministers to teach the reality of "hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Christ used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which led them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day.

 

[desmalia]

So do the "Jews", and they give the same exact reasons as the "Jews" do for the Messiah not being Crucified/Resurrected.

The Muslims also believe JESUS is coming back to turn the world to ISLAM. LOL.


Exodus 7:1 And YHWH saith unto Moses, `See, I have given thee as Elohiym to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;

Matthew 26:57 And those laying hold on Jesus led [him] away unto Caiaphas the chief priest, where the scribes and the elders were gathered together

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/lazarus.htm

CONCLUSION

The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, long used by mainstream ministers to teach the reality of "hell," really has nothing to say about punishment or reward in the afterlife. Christ used this story, which fit the common misconception about life after death in his day, to show the fate that awaited the Jewish nation because of the unbelief and faithlessness which led them to reject him as the Messiah. They still suffer from that fate to this very day.

How the heck did a discussion on Allah and Islam end up being about Jews? And why on earth would you bring up that old tired debate about Lazarus yet again? It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread. I'm starting to wonder what your agenda is here...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How the heck did a discussion on Allah and Islam end up being about Jews? And why on earth would you bring up that old tired debate about Lazarus yet again? It has absolutely nothing to do with the subject of this thread. I'm starting to wonder what your agenda is here...

Umm, there is no difference between the CREATOR/LORD that the Muslims believe in and the Jews believe in.
So what is your problem with that if I can ask, and what are you trying to imply about "my agenda"?.

[Young LT] Romans 3:29 The God of Jews only [is He], and not also of nations? 30 yes, also of nations; since one [is] God who shall declare righteous the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through the faith. 31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.

 

[desmalia]

Umm, there is no difference between the CREATOR/LORD that the Muslims believe in and the Jews believe in.
So what is your problem with that if I can ask, and what are you trying to imply about "my agenda"?.

[Young LT] Romans 3:29 The God of Jews only [is He], and not also of nations? 30 yes, also of nations; since one [is] God who shall declare righteous the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through the faith. 31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.

My problem is that you keep dragging unrelated threads into some disjointed discussion about how "bad" you believe the Jews are. If you want to bash the Jews, please start your own thread instead of taking other people's off topic. Thank you.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Umm, there is no difference between the CREATOR/LORD that the Muslims believe in and the Jews believe in.
So what is your problem with that if I can ask, and what are you trying to imply about "my agenda"?.

[Young LT] Romans 3:29 The God of Jews only [is He], and not also of nations? 30 yes, also of nations; since one [is] God who shall declare righteous the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through the faith. 31 Law then do we make useless through the faith? let it not be! yea, we do establish law.

My problem is that you keep dragging unrelated threads into some disjointed discussion about how "bad" you believe the Jews are. If you want to bash the Jews, please start your own thread instead of taking other people's off topic. Thank you.

So you are here to bash the Muslims instead? That sounds like "prejudice/anti-semitism" to me, just as what you are accusing me of.

 

[sunlover1]

This is the problem I have when debating the Jews of today, as they also do not see a "crucifixion" in the OT/OC.

That's because it was not prophesied.
It was hid by God.
Please bear with my KJV, it's
familiar to me, even though
it's not the version of choice.

Ephesians 3:1-11 KJV
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ
for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation
of the grace of God which is given me to
you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known
unto me the mystery;
(as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand
my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles
and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs,
and of the same body,
and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister,
according to the gift of the grace of God
given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints,
is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles
the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities
and powers in heavenly places might
be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in
Christ Jesus our Lord:...


This is just part of it,
there's a lot about
the mystery in the NT.

sunlover

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is just part of it,
there's a lot about
the mystery in the NT.

sunlover

Thanks for that. But I feel somehow we must get the Muslims to at least look at our book of Revelation and see how much it resembles a lot of Muhammad's prophecies about the "Endtimes".

Note in Chapt 10 the "Mystery of God" would be finished and unless the Muslims understand what this signifies concerning the OC Nations of Israel and Judah, they will not really understand the OC Prophecies concerning JESUS. Just a humble thought.

Reve 10:7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when he may be about to sound, and the Mystery of God may be finished/telesqh <5055>, as He did declare to His own servants, to the PROPHETS.

Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful, seven messengers having the seven last stripes, because in these was completed/etelesqh <5055> the wrath of God,

 

[desmalia]

So you are here to bash the Muslims instead? That sounds like "prejudice/anti-semitism" to me, just as what you are accusing me of.

I'm not here to bash anyone. But I am very much against Islam and all other false religions in this world. If you want to call me anti-Islam, go ahead. It is a powerful false faith that has lead many, and will continue to lead many to hell. I rejoice with those who reject Islam and turn to the One true God before it is too late.

But the Jews are a nation, and they are God's chosen people. Yes, many of them are rebelious against God right now and fail to recognize who Christ is, and that truly breaks my heart. But as the Bible tells us, that will not always be so. And even now there are many who DO recognize who the Messiah is. Those are the Messianic Jews, or sometimes they are called "Complete Jews".

 

[The Princess Bride]

Thanks for that. But I feel somehow we must get the Muslims to at least look at our book of Revelation and see how much it resembles a lot of Muhammad's prophecies about the "Endtimes".

Note in Chapt 10 the "Mystery of God" would be finished and unless the Muslims understand what this signifies concerning the OC Nations of Israel and Judah, they will not really understand the OC Prophecies concerning JESUS. Just a humble thought.

Reve 10:7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh messenger, when he may be about to sound, and the Mystery of God may be finished/telesqh <5055>, as He did declare to His own servants, to the PROPHETS.

Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful, seven messengers having the seven last stripes, because in these was completed/etelesqh <5055> the wrath of God,

Just something to keep in mind....

After OT/AND NT words about the End Times were given, it left the opportunity for the devil to "twist" the message to suit his liking.

I truly believe Muhammad was decieved in the message he "prophesied" to his people.

Just because it "sounds" like a truth or "looks" like a truth, doesnt MAKE it a truth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Just something to keep in mind....

After OT/AND NT words about the End Times were given, it left the opportunity for the devil to "twist" the message to suit his liking.

I truly believe Muhammad was decieved in the message he "prophesied" to his people.

Just because it "sounds" like a truth or "looks" like a truth, doesnt MAKE it a truth.

Hi. As I said earlier, Muhammad appeared to just did his own "Commentary" on our Bible, and it was the angel "Gabriel" that visited him supposedly.
Why did he pick that particular angel which is only mentioned 4 times in our Bible?
Also remember they look at Saul/Paul as a "deceiver" in our NC as do a lot of "Mess-ianics" from what I saw on one site..

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm not here to bash anyone. But I am very much against Islam and all other false religions in this world. If you want to call me anti-Islam, go ahead. It is a powerful false faith that has lead many, and will continue to lead many to hell. I rejoice with those who reject Islam and turn to the One true God before it is too late.

But the Jews are a nation, and they are God's chosen people. Yes, many of them are rebelious against God right now and fail to recognize who Christ is, and that truly breaks my heart. But as the Bible tells us, that will not always be so. And even now there are many who DO recognize who the Messiah is. Those are the Messianic Jews, or sometimes they are called "Complete Jews".

Hi. May I asked if you have ever debated with both Muslims and Jews on the Bible?

And since you decided to bring up the "Mess-ianics", do you also realize there are many "Mess-ianics" that view Saul/Paul as a false Apostle as do the Muslims? But that is for a different topic.

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm
Paul, the False Apostle

Anyway, here is a thread I had up awhile back when debating the Muslims on Paul if you are interested. Peace.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2833966-why-do-muslims-reject-the-apostle-paul.html
why-do-muslims-reject-the-apostle-paul

Originally Posted by a Muslim Post # 206
Notice how Jesus described false prophets as Paul described himself, by words (doing) "SIGNS" and "MIRACLES":

Matt.24:23. "At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24. For false Christ&#8217;s and false prophets will appear and perform great SIGNS and MIRACLES to deceive even the elect (disciples) - if that were possible.

 

[desmalia]

Hi. May I asked if you have ever debated with both Muslims and Jews on the Bible?

And since you decided to bring up the "Mess-ianics", do you also realize there are many "Mess-ianics" that view Saul/Paul as a false Apostle as do the Muslims? But that is for a different topic.

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm
Paul, the False Apostle

Anyway, here is a thread I had up awhile back when debating the Muslims on Paul if you are interested. Peace.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2833966-why-do-muslims-reject-the-apostle-paul.html
why-do-muslims-reject-the-apostle-paul

Originally Posted by a Muslim Post # 206
Notice how Jesus described false prophets as Paul described himself, by words (doing) "SIGNS" and "MIRACLES":

Matt.24:23. "At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24. For false Christ’s and false prophets will appear and perform great SIGNS and MIRACLES to deceive even the elect (disciples) - if that were possible.

I personally don't know of any Messianic Jews who reject any part of the Bible. But if there are some, that is indeed terrible.

I currently don't have any Jewish friends, but I do have a good Muslim friend. She and I discuss religious issues quite a bit and I have a lot of respect for her. But no, I don't "debate" with her or any of my Jewish friends from the past because I've found such debates to generally be fruitless. Respectful discussion is much more effective in my experience. But maybe that's just more my personal style.

 

[Gal328]

They believe in the God of our Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac/Ishmael, Jacob/Israel and even that Jesus was born of a virgin.
Unfortunately they do not believe He was crucified and ascended to the Right Hand of YHWH, but one day both them and the unbelieving "Jews" will have the "veil of Moses" lifted from their eyes, just as I did.

Revelation 1:1 [a/an] From/Un-Covering/Veiling[ apo-kaluyiV] Yeshuwa` Mashiyach, which gives to Him, the God/YHWH , to show to the bond-servants of Him, which is behooving to be becoming in Swiftness.

Muslims believe That Allah is The God of Abraham, Ishmael, (Don't know about Jacob) The God of Jesus, But they don't believe that He was born of a virgin.

Christians also believe that He is the Son of God, and that He Himself Is God. Muslems Just believe that He's A prophet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Muslims believe That Allah is The God of Abraham, Ishmael, (Don't know about Jacob) The God of Jesus, But they don't believe that He was born of a virgin.

Christians also believe that He is the Son of God, and that He Himself Is God. Muslems Just believe that He's A prophet.

That is correct, though they do believe Jesus was also born of a virgin but not the Son of God.
Their "endtime" views are really not that much different than the CHRIST-ian's version if you have ever studied it, and why I think Muhammad or other Muslims might have had someone read revelation to him.

It is pretty interesting though and here is a response from someone that is interested in just "stirring the pot" LOL .

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070319052314AAprUHp
Do Muslims believe Jesus will return?


"who cares what muslims belive! they only belive in one thing....denouncing all other religions/beliefs and if they dont get their own way a fanatic goes out and kills/maims innocent people....which of course they then denounce"!!!!!!

 

[ContentInHim]

Hi PB. They indeed worship the True God of Abraham, Isaac/Ishmael and Jacob/Israel.

The main difference between what Muhammad told them and what we believe in our NT/NC concerning the CHRIST brought to the "Jews and Israel" is the Crucifixion.

This is the problem I have when debating the Jews of today, as they also do not see a "crucifixion" in the OT/OC.

Other than that, they are pretty close to our view on the Bible other than JESUS being the TRUE LORD/SAVIOR/CHRIST of YHWH.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

Christianity's biggest lies, the Crucifixion and Resurrection, were never prophesied in the Bible's Old Testament!

This is so NOT true.

Allah calls for true Muslims to convert by the sword or kill Jews and Christians. Our Father calls for us to love our brothers (assuming I can call a Muslim my brother). Which is the God we believers know?

Also, the crucifixion and resurrection are all over the OT!

 

[desmalia]

Yes, Muslims do believe in the virgin birth. In fact they consider Mary to be one of the purest, holiest individuals ever born and they revere her far above Christ. (Sound familiar?)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is so NOT true.

Allah calls for true Muslims to convert by the sword or kill Jews and Christians. Our Father calls for us to love our brothers (assuming I can call a Muslim my brother). Which is the God we believers know?

Also, the crucifixion and resurrection are all over the OT!

Well, here is your chance to go help the Muslims convince the Jews that JESUS was their Messiah and Savior instead of "bashing them".

http://www.christianforums.com/t3006763&page=17

Having read some of the strongest criticism of the prophecies of Jesus in the OT (from Jews in this CF), I would like to know why Jews cannot accept Isa (pbuh) since the Quran says:

1. Isa (pbuh) never claimed to be God, or Son of God, but asked the Jews to pray to the One God that Jews are praying now

2. Isa (pbuh) asks the Jews to follow the Torah and the Injil, hence a continuation of the revelations from God

3. Isa (pbuh) was not crucified and hence was not accursed

4. Isa (pbuh) never claimed to the Messiah the Jews are waiting for.

5. Isa (pbuh) performed many miracles to show he was the prophet of God.

You would have noticed Prophet Isa (pbuh) was in some ways totally different from the biblical Jesus whom the gospel writers made to be crucified, accursed, made false prophecies of himself.

So again, why cant Jews accept Isa (pbuh)?

 

[Nadiine]

I personally don't know of any Messianic Jews who reject any part of the Bible. But if there are some, that is indeed terrible.

I currently don't have any Jewish friends, but I do have a good Muslim friend. She and I discuss religious issues quite a bit and I have a lot of respect for her. But no, I don't "debate" with her or any of my Jewish friends from the past because I've found such debates to generally be fruitless. Respectful discussion is much more effective in my experience. But maybe that's just more my personal style.

In my personal experience, certain non Christian friends I've had are ok with more discussion about religion, and a few of them are more "don't go there with me" lol.

We have 2 liberal friends that we just do NOT go there! (we don't see them much anymore either)...
Not everyone is open or responsive to these subjects with us.

 

[S Walch]

To correct the op:

Actually, the Arabic word for "god" is ilah - Allah is indeed the name of a false pagan god.

That is why the Islamic statement of of faith is:

"La ilaha ill Allah" - there is no god (ilah) but Allah.

If Allah was merely the arabic word for "god" then it would say "La allaha ill Allah" - and it clearly doesn't.

Saying that, god or ilah isn't a name, but merely a title.

Allah is the name of the Islamic god - which is a false one.